Talk:Naruto: Shinobi (5e Class)
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Core Rules and Major changes
Recently since Reference left the page for a while, we've noticed some editors changing major and core things in the class that might flip it all around and ruin campaigns. For example, recently someone, i don't know who changed the number of Jutsus that can be gained though that was reversed back to normal. We ask that any major changes to the class be discussed with others first, preferably here before being implemented, so ongoing campaigns don't get ruined because of these changes being out of place or wrong. P@uL (talk) 11:18, 18 May 2021 (MDT)
Been thinking about labelling which Jutsu need Hand Seals and those that don’t in order to make feats like Hidden Talent and Perfected Seals easier to understand but I don’t know which way to implement it, should I make separate columns labelling which is which or should I just add a little requirement below the jutsu --Bobert (talk) 02:57, 7 June 2021 (MDT)
I've also been thinking about that for a while, I'd say make seperate columns to make it less work for you, but if you want to add it as a requirement below the jutsu (as it is with genjutsu) go for it. P@uL (talk) 05:06, 7 June 2021 (MDT)
How would people feel about changing Naruto Shinobi: Shadow Imitation Jutsu (Other) into the Path of the Shadow? With Ino and Cho already being subclasses, it feels weird to make Shika a nature that requires a feat, especially since all 3 follow the same pattern as Hiden (that by nature not just anyone can pick up) that must be sequentially mastered. Same goes for Naruto Shinobi: Mysterious Peacock Method Jutsu (Other), though it would inevitably be implantable and would necessitate another Dojutsu subclass (I'm sure I could fake more Jogan content if I try hard enough).--Ref3rence (talk) 20:48, 30 July 2021 (MDT)
I am considering making this variant rule a fundamental part of this class. With the raw number of jutsu, there's really no reason to force players to take any particular jutsu. This will probably come with a much-needed summoning jutsu increase, but I can't really see any reasons not to beyond that. I am putting this out just in case anyone has any objections. --Ref3rence (talk) 10:24, 20 November 2020 (MST)
I do see where you're coming from with this but also it's really weird. Cuz I do like the whole thing of you know you level up into your chakra nature and you train for others and everything. And for me personally I kind of give out jutsu's as scrolls for like completing missions or like they find it in a chest or something.so there's multiple ways of doing it and it's not really restricting players it's only if the DM restricts them.
- I'm not really seeing where you're coming from. How is only allowing players to gain a handful of arbitrary jutsu in an arbitrary order not restricting them? Why couldn't you just give a player a different scroll, or training in a jutsu of their choice, for completing a mission? I guess I'm just not getting where you're coming from. --Ref3rence (talk) 22:05, 17 December 2020 (MST)
Seeing no one's been giving any opinions for so long. I'll just drop mine here. My opinion is I agree, there's no reason to restrict by level, as you also said many times you rather stuff in the class work with chakra. In non linear jutsu, chakra is the restriction, as if you'd want to be able to use one of the powerful Jutsus too early you'll either risk a lot of exhaustion if you're using the chakra exhaustion variant rule. Or you'll have to make your build focused on chakra. Plus learning Jutsus in a linear way is maybe a bit unrealistic as everyone will be learning the same thing in the same order. In stuff like ninja academy that makes sense. But it wouldn't make sense with stuff like ninja assassins learning the same thing a basic village ninja is learning, and it also makes getting unique Jutsu kind of difficult without breaking the amount of jutsu you're supposed to have with how you only get set Jutsu. So you should make non linear a fundamental part of the class. P@uL (talk) 03:56, 3 April 2021 (MDT)
- Thanks for the input! As we already had 1 yae and 1 nay, I won't be making any changes for now until we have a tie-breaker opinion.--Ref3rence (talk) 08:52, 3 April 2021 (MDT)
If you're still looking for opinions, I definitely agree, I use the variant rule and it makes the class tons more enjoyable and makes each character feel more like an individual rather than having the same jutsus learned throughout the whole party with the characters feeling more expendable, and it allows for some interesting jutsu combinations. It also allows you to have that wider range of versatility in the party that you wouldn't get otherwise so you'll probably have someone for every situation. It pretty much just makes the class more fun.
i see where your coming from, but i think it being a variant rule would fit it better as it would be up to the dm to use the rule, making it a thing the group could vote on.
- But that doesn't refute any of the other points. The original way is like forcing every spellcaster to gain True Strike and Mage Hand. Are some casters going to use it? Sure. Is forcing it on every player justified in any way (i.e. lore, character, progression, etc.)? If so, I really don't see it. For instance, in canon there are roughly 10 people who use the Rasengan or a Rasengan-like technique (including movie and filler characters) because they were in the right place, were with the right people, or were the right people. Using the original chakra rules, suddenly half of the entire universe knows the Rasengan. While I am admittedly singling out an easy example, this applies to pretty much every traditionally acquired jutsu gained after 8th level (and a couple gained on and before like chidori and the various seals). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see why anyone would vote against it outside of possibly misplaced nostalgia.--Ref3rence (talk) 18:07, 11 April 2021 (MDT)
Removing the Blade
Howdy, all. Deadly Blade has been a sore spot for me for a while, as the idea of a class feature that grants you a physical item instead of an intrinsic character ability, especially one of potential significance in the world, has always rubbed me the wrong way for hopefully obvious reasons. The main reason Deadly Blade has remained a feature on this page is because I couldn't think of an alternate feature, but now we have that alternate feature in Jutsu Assassination. And so I ask you, the community I hope is occasionally checking this page, would anyone be particularly upset if I were to reduce Deadly Blade to magic items (to be listed at 5e Magic Items (Shinobi World Setting)) and full on replace it with Jutsu Assassination?--Ref3rence (talk) 21:28, 30 March 2021 (MDT)
That would be a nice change considering the class is more Zabuza-based and the fact that blades like Samehada could finally be buffed to their full extent --Bobert (talk) 07:06, 31 March 2021 (MDT)Bobert
- I'm going to leave conversation open for until 20:00, but at this point they have all been converted into items, and it's only a matter of time.--Ref3rence (talk) 13:02, 31 March 2021 (MDT)
i do agree that we should leave out the seven blades of the mist, but i also think that we should keep other magical swords from naruto like the sword of kusanagi, but maybe have a chakra cost to summon out the blade and have it disappear after a long rest if you dont like the idea of a physical item. what is your opinion on this? -plywood tank
- Real quick since it's relevant, I'm going to mention that all weapons from this subclass have been turned into magic items listed here. I suppose being able to summon one's weapon fixes the problem of it being a class feature that grants an easily losable bonus, I'm mostly unsure what you mean. Every item listed holds a high amount of significance in Naruto lore, so removing some but keeping others doesn't really fix that. It's also still giving a player a physical item, just one they can summon that reseals(?) every long rest. It also doesn't fix the idea of a character just mystically discovering a magic item, when that kind of thing should be a reward in pretty much every regard. Your proposal also negates one of the only 2 interesting thing the Sword of Kusanagi (and Totsuka Blade and Yata Mirror, which I'm curious why you decided to remove) has.--Ref3rence (talk) 20:52, 31 March 2021 (MDT)
Question, I’ve checked the link out and some of the other Deadly Blades and other previously added blades (Sword of Kusanagi, White Chakra Sabre, etc) are missing? Is it on another page or are is it still in the works?
- They're all listed at at 5e Magic Items (Shinobi World Setting), just spread throughout various rarities so players can reasonably get them at times earlier than 20th level. If for some reason they just aren't displaying for you (weirder things have happened for me), here's White Light Chakra Sabre and Sword of Kusanagi. You might try searching for them on the page using CTRL + F.--Ref3rence (talk) 08:30, 2 April 2021 (MDT)
This is primarily concerning Hit (Wo)Man, but any user is welcome to throw in their two cents. Certain things in edits done today have been hidden for now that I would like to discuss, and hopefully come to a conclusion on.
Firstly, the Signature Jutsu feat: this is a feat that has the effects of both Onyx Jutsu (a 20th level feature) and Lament Jutsu (a 10th level feature), upon other benefits. Being able to gain any of these at 4th level, or potentially 1st as a variant human, is far too strong, much less both of them plus some other, admittedly really interesting and fun in the case of switching from attack to save, and admittedly busted and vague in being able to combine it with another jutsu, benefits. It also clashes with the Signature Jutsu subclass feature and the "Fear not the shinobi who has practiced 1,000 jutsu 1 time, but who has practiced 1 jutsu 1,000 times" nindo.
Secondly, gaining and the nature of the Basic and Advanced Absorption Technique: firstly, the Absorption Nin feat is already strong enough without gaining additional jutsu. Secondly, Unique Chakra Absorbing Jutsu is not a nature, they are meant to be replacements for individual jutsu, so treating them like a nature by giving a basic technique is odd. Thirdly, the point of absorption jutsu is to be a risky investment. They all have relatively high costs with the possibility to grant far more than they cost. Basic is absolutely not that, beyond the yikes of it costs nothing, there is 0 risk. Even Advanced, which has a cost, can easily be made up if you deal at least 4 damage every turn, which any player using it will be. There's no all-or-nothing mentality, you're bound to regain at least half of its cost without even trying. Compounding on top of this, there's nothing saying you have to hit a creature, only deal damage, so what's keeping a player from punching a tree every now and then to have effectively infinite chakra?
Thirdly, and most minorly, the plural of jutsu is jutsu. Jutsu's is possessive (i.e. it's the same as saying "of the jutsu"). Not that big of a deal, not trying to judge, just an important thing to keep in mind for any future edits on this page, which despite the wall of text I really hope you do.--Ref3rence (talk) 17:53, 29 March 2021 (MDT)
- Fair nough Reference. The actual feats themselves, we've used and with the amount of feats they're are, taking as example, 'Signature Justu', I've been the only 1 in a part of 6 of this class only, 6 people, only 1 whose been considering event taking multiple, and me taking 1 of it for now. Not disagreeing it's strong, same with the Chakra absorption, but fair enough for it not being in the doc.
- But I would like to discuss Kirin itself. As a jutsu of similar strength, Particle Style/Disintegration does add the damage to the technique and same with magic missile and similar technique's. Kirin itself... uh... it sucks. it does less damage than Particle Style/Disintegration, great fire annihilation or other technique's that should be of 'similar' power and the technique itself is strangely worded and used. It's a massive AOE ability in the anime but only targets 1 person, but becomes an AOE if the target is reduced to 0 in the doc but was changed due to how the anime worked but still how the technique itself works? It's a strange change to the technique.
- I got the jutsu as it probably should be: from a special event that was extremely rare that I could die from from speaking wrong, and rolled a nat 20 to even start the event. After getting this technique... It's no better than other jutsu's. just doing 2 great fire balls are just as effective as doing this technique. or chidori. Or Jigokuzuki. Or any other Lightning/other Technique. It already takes 2 turns to set up normally to use without a storm already up. It does not much, around 40 on average and then the storm goes away. I argue the 20 damage, like Disintegration, helps as it's a high level jutsu that should have set damage as well as the lower cost. Mind you, creating the storm with storm style costs 15. So creating a storm for 15 chakra, the same amount as normal Kirin or random rolling with DM for weather (if the DM even decides it's not sunny), isn't helpful.
- Understandable about chakra absorption and Signature. But Kirin is too weak, and should be similar to Particle Style/Disintegration, great fire annihilation. Cost should be lowered for summoning lighting and creating storms akin to how I had it and a bit higher damage to keep it as like, other technique's. Great Fireball and great fire annihilation are better. Chidori, better. Most technique's are better. It needs buffs and changes to fix it. Just my thoughts and not trying to insult you or anything. Also, it either needs to be single target or AOE, not both as your version is AOE and not AOE. As example, mine was AOE, small but AOE but if brought to 0 then a little bigger. I realize that's not similar to the show with how mine worked but the technique itself is very different than the show. looks at Uchiha Hideout --Hit (Wo)Man (talk) 15:58, 4 April 2021 (MDT)
- I think you're misunderstanding the wording. If there are multiple object or creatures in the initial lightning bolt, it should theoretically be able to absorb the jutsu's damage, such as a strong building. It only becomes an AOE if it, in less mechanical terms, impacts the ground, creating a blast. There's also nothing saying you can't just target a space 5 ft. next to your target if something's above them, resulting in the AOE effect anyway, since effects don't have to target creatures.
- That all being said, I can see how the wording can be confusing. I will be revising it to hopefully find a happy medium. The point of creating the storm being more costly than Storm Style: Jewel of the Dragon Head is to give the jutsu a purpose as a supplement to Kirin in a non-linear jutsu campaign.--Ref3rence (talk) 15:34, 1 April 2021 (MDT)
Hi. I wanted to ask if we could add the level requirements for jutsus back because I was mid-DM'ing a campaign with the shinobi world campaign when someone told me that they performed greater fireball jistu, and I was confused as to why they would have that at such an early level, so I checked the page to make sure, just to see that they can cast all jitsus right now. Please, at least for the chakra natures and the genkai, because I don't know what my players should and shouldn't know already. Thank you. --Fellow creator, Picigu9 (talk) 19:01, 8 April 2021 (MDT)
- As per the discussion still on this page, what used to be the Non-Linear Jutsu variant rule has been integrated to the main class under the premise that unique jutsu were almost pointless previously, and that there's no reason everybody should have the same 5 jutsu. Assuming your players are 7th level (Great Fireball was restricted to 8th level), they should know 10 jutsu total, with Basic Ninjutsu counting as half as many, as detailed under the Chakra header. Generally, if there's a big change that makes this page look overpowered compared to a previous version (i.e. allowing players to "cast all jitsus"), check the edit that made the change, because there's probably a reason and something you're missing. If you're REALLY attached to players having the same couple of jutsu for whatever reason, here's a link to the revision immediately before it was changed.--Ref3rence (talk) 20:12, 8 April 2021 (MDT)
- The way our game works is that the players get two chakra natures that mix to become a KG. The only way they can get more is through special plot reasons, such as the Jinchuriki in the party. This way, all of the players tried to pick their own unique combination, making them all have a variety of jutsu. They all got to start with one unique that fits their character as well. I would then reward them with uniques based on their roleplaying, exploration, etc. They now worry that their characters will be conflicting with one another, and non-linear jutsu allows them to start out significantly stronger than they should. I understand that Boruto knew how to do Rasengan super ultimate universe destruction blast while he was still a fetus, but this makes progression have a huge spike at level 2, making anyone using a different class obsolete. Players by all means should not know how to do these S-rank jutsu at the beginning of the campaign. Something really has to be done about this, because the older version of the class was well balanced enough to be used in a normal setting, as well as gave so many customization options and versatility. I would even say that if you were allowed only one subclass, it was on par with vanilla classes. After the changes were made, we had a week-long discussion of if and how we could continue the campaign, and we came to the decision that we at least had to use the old version for reference of whether or not they can have a jutsu. Other than this inconvenience, you are doing great work on the class, keep it up. --Fellow creator, Picigu9 (talk) 10:25, 28 April 2021 (MDT)
- The issue is that when you use the old rule, it doesn't promote enough individuality and uniqueness throughout the party, while I'm sure it works fine for you, not every DM is as good at balancing and distributing individual jutsu, the current system is more of a one size fits all, I don't see the same balance issues that you're seeing, as once you cast one super strong jutsu, you're done for the day. I think you may be having an issue with individual Jutsu rather than non-linear Jutsu.--Jaydon105 (talk) 17:55, 28 April 2021 (MDT)
- In my opinion, no. Simply because all of this really goes under Yin Release (Shadow Release). I would say they should unlock Yin Release first to have access to it. And besides I have plans of making more Genjutsu later on and I think Genjutsu should be earned on how it works for Chakra.TheInfamousSage1 (talk) 05:25, 5 May 2021 (MDT)
If using the chakra exhaustion variant rule can the path of beast initial release and above reduction of normal chakra lower your chakra below 0? If so does that mean it can kill you with chakra exhaustion by reducing your chakra below 0? Please answer this as soon as possible P@uL (talk) 15:41, 6 May 2021 (MDT)
- I revised it, it would be unfair to the player if they died in that way.--Jaydon105 (talk) 17:24, 6 May 2021 (MDT)
Can you replace weapon damage for unarmed damage? Like a monk can do with weapons they are proficient in? Is the "add dex-mod to the jutsu's damage unless stated otherwise" still in effect? Or was it removed? Additionally, something more specific. Does "half as much" in Cloud-Style Crescent Moon Beheading refer to the weapon damage? Or the entire damage roll? So, if I have affinity, does a 5th level character with a wakizashi do 1d6+1d4 damage on a successful save? 2d6+2d4 on a failed save. --FrickyDiBoop (talk) 04:57, 7 May 2021 (MDT)
- First question, no, but it could be revised that does seem pretty fair, second question, I'm pretty sure that got removed, though I don't see why it did so it could probably be added back, though I think intelligence would make more sense, thirdly if something says half damage and doesn't specify, it means you take the normal damage that you would've dealt (2d6+2d4) and take half of that.--Jaydon105 (talk) 09:20, 7 May 2021 (MDT)
I've put this in requests but seeing requests aren't being answered for the time being I'll put it here
I think scattering thousand Crows jutsu is too weak, the way it is now really isn't worth that 5 chakra. I think it should either be able to move the affected area or the chakra cost should be lowered. P@uL (talk) 06:39, 7 May 2021 (MDT)
- I've been really busy lately and haven't had time to make too many edits, but I should be able to take care of this now, remember that anyone can make edits if they want to, you don't always have to wait for a response.--Jaydon105 (talk) 09:20, 7 May 2021 (MDT)
I've removed the weapon damage change from the class features and added it to path of the warrior and path of sealing. Because in my opinion being able to efficiently use a Katana as well as someone uses his fists should be the result of specialized training and being able to deal tons of damage by just throwing weapons with shuriken jutsu should belong to the path of sealing and the Fūma clan rather than everyone. And in the show people that aren't specifically specialized in some way with the weapon they're using use their fists and unarmed strikes instead, so giving that to the whole class would destroy the point. So I hope it's not an unsatisfactory change. P@uL (talk) 06:17, 9 May 2021 (MDT)
I agree, it kinda makes Path of the Warrior and Kenjutsu-based Shinobis obsolete due to their weapons basically being the same as a regular unarmed strikes. That also means Feats like Acrobat allow you to make 8 Unarmed Strikes in one Attack Action. --Bobert (talk) 07:44, 9 May 2021 (MDT)
In Path of the Warrior and Path of Sealing, it says that weapons you’re proficient with benefit from Martial Arts, does that mean we get to add our unarmed attack damage along with the weapon’s regular damage or does it just give you the option to use your DEX instead of your STR mod for attack rolls--Bobert (talk) 07:48, 9 May 2021 (MDT)
- While I do see where you guys are coming from, I do disagree on the basis that it would be more in line with other classes, (namely the monk), to be able to replace your weapon's damage with your martial arts, the class features you listed already do give good buffs like letting your weapon damage scale up with your level. The issue is also that once your unarmed strike deals more than your primary weapon, your weapons become obsolete.--Jaydon105 (talk) 12:50, 9 May 2021 (MDT)
- Jay, I honestly have no idea what you're going for, but I like the recent change. It gives the warrior path and the sealing path something somewhat powerful that can allow them to keep their purpose while still doing some serious damage. It keeps this ability special. --FrickyDiBoop (talk) 13:07, 9 May 2021 (MDT)
- Basically what I meant was that the only class in official rules that has martial arts, the monk, also allows you to deal your martial arts damage in place of your weapon's damage, which does make sense if you think about it, for example, think of like, Naruto hitting someone with a kunai vs him hitting someone with his fist, he wouldn't be dealing any less damage with a kunai than with his fist, it just doesn't make any sense, and as it is now, path of the warrior and sealing already get massive damage with their weapons because of their weapon's damage die increasing, due to it scaling with martial arts. The whole point of allowing you to replace your weapon's damage with the martial arts damage is to allow your weapons not to become obsolete.--Jaydon105 (talk) 21:47, 9 May 2021 (MDT)
Both of us didn't know that, as weapon damage scaling like becoming a 2D6 instead of a 2D4 is a Shinobi world setting variant rule. Otherwise why would I write something that makes them deal the same damage as unarmed strikes. Edit: actually, I just read archive 4. In the path of the warrior section. There what reference wrote indicates that those subclasses did UNARMED STRIKE damage all along. And not scale in that way, so with that my point still stands.
You're basically giving something that was subclass and clan boon exclusive (Fūma clan) to the whole class. That can easily be fixed in-game by buying a bladed knuckle duster. The class doesn't have to be an upgraded copy of monk and that's not what it's meant to be.
And if talking about the show, later on Naruto barely uses Kunai (I'm saying barely because there maybe some parts I forgot) and no, it had nothing to do with sage mode. He even barely uses it in base. In boruto he only used it to spar with boruto, something that was a joke to Naruto. And the Jonin don't use Kunai all the time either except people that have a special use for them like Minato. Kunai is for versatility in Naruto the Jonin use it tactically or to attack at a range sometimes without using Chakra. For example take kakashi he uses it in the zabuza fight to incapacitate zabuza's arm. And take other ninja that attach paper bombs on them. P@uL (talk) 03:46, 10 May 2021 (MDT)
- I obviously don't want to create a carbon copy of the monk, that'd be dumb, I used the monk as a reference because it is the ONLY class in official rules that has martial arts so it's the only class to use as a template for said ability, my point is that you don't necessarily need special training in weapons to be able to hit harder with them, and path of the warrior and path of sealing are exceptionally powerful as is, it wouldn't be a problem giving it to the whole class, I also think you might be misunderstanding the warrior weapons damage scaling, basically at 3rd level when you gain the ability and it says that your melee weapons benefit from your martial arts feature, it means that when your damage die increases for your unarmed strike, your weapons do as well, it functions the same as the Shinobi World variant rule, if you guys are deadset on keeping it in the individual paths, however, I'm going to add it as a variant rule for the class, doesn't make too big a difference to me.--Jaydon105 (talk) 10:41, 10 May 2021 (MDT)
- Jay, you couldn't be further from the truth. Saying that it benefits from the martial arts doesn't mean that the weapon's damage scales with unarmed strike. Originally, it meant that someone could replace their weapon's damage dice with unarmed strike's damage dice, like monks could. While additionally giving any weapon the class and the person is proficient with the ability to switch the modifier from strength to dexterity. That's it. That's also how it is with the monk. However, we thought that changing it so only the warrior and the sealing paths should be able to have that, for many reasons. But that's not the point. It seems like you have completely mistaken the implementation of the feature, which is why this debate is taking place. --FrickyDiBoop (talk) 11:08, 10 May 2021 (MDT)
- That doesn't change my point at all though, I believe I'm interpreting it the correct way, even if I'm not, I still think it would be better working with the class as a whole, if you guys disagree with my interpretation, that's fine too, it's not a big deal, I can still just add it as a variant rule and we can call it a day. And your weapons already can use dex instead of strength whether you have the path of the warrior/sealing or not. It's definitely not that I'm not seeing the "truth" or something, it's just faulty wording at best. I'd suggest if you're going to implement this rule, switch up the wording a little bit.--Jaydon105 (talk) 12:10, 10 May 2021 (MDT)
Fair enough on trying to balance the weapon damage per level I guess, it doesn’t make a huge difference now that I think about it. It’s only useful if said weapon has a specific property or is magical, but Jutsu like Shuriken Jutsu have to be nerfed regarding this though, you’re basically dealing double your unarmed damage (if you have affinity) and have the ability to do even more as long you have the chakra with Shuriken Shadow Clone Jutsu.--Bobert (talk) 14:46, 9 May 2021 (MDT)
- I'd say anything that specifically says you attack, which some spells/jutsu do.--Jaydon105 (talk) 20:37, 17 May 2021 (MDT)
So Amenominaka states, "You open and enter a portal to another dimension of your choice. This can be a portal of your own design, or a preexisting dimension." When it says that it can be a portal of your own design what does that mean, is it implying that you can make a dimension? Also the way the jutsu actually canonically functions isn't by opening a portal it actually replaces the world around you.--Jaydon105 (talk) 04:01, 26 May 2021 (MDT)
I just had a couple of questions for clarification. For the nindo "I'll be the greatest ninja" my players and I were a little confused, are they automatically granted any extra subclass, or are they only granted it if they have something to implant? Also for the uzumaki clan, do they need to be effected by two levels of exhaustion in one turn to be effected, or just two levels of exhaustion through a day feels like one to them. My last question is, for path of the sage are they converting their own chakra to senjutsu chakra, or are they gaining senjutsu chakra from their surroundings
1. I think it's supposed to be anyone of the basic subclasses, but that extra subclass would use the rules of implantation. At least that's how I and our players do it, since I'm certain it doesn't mean you'd have a dojutsu or tailed beast appear inside you out of nowhere. Nor do I think it's supposed to replicate a level 16 ninja feat.
2.The Uzumaki don't need to be effected by the exhaustion in one turn. They gain exhaustion as normal but the number of levels they'll need to have accumulated for the effects are doubled. So an Uzumaki with 6 levels of exhaustion for say, if you're using the chakra exhaustion rule, used up all their chakra all the way to the negatives. It will only give them disadvantage on ability checks, halved speed and disadvantage on attack rolls.
3.In the Path of the Sage you convert your normal chakra into Senjutsu, mechanically so. Gathering natural energy from your surroundings is flavor text if that is written there. P@uL (talk) 15:27, 1 June 2021 (MDT)
In "Path of the Beast" subclass, on the 20th level feature it mentions "Sage Mode", I'm probably being an idiot but could someone clarify what it refers to? I searched sage mode and only came up with the "Path of the Sage" subclass which doesn't quite add up, thank you for your time! Sleepy Âsh (talk) 07:20, 13 June 2021 (MDT) 11 June 2021
Sage mode is part of the first feature of the path of the sage, which occurs when the user has more senjutsu chakra than their current normal chakra. To sign your posts put four tildes under it. P@uL (talk) 14:06, 11 June 2021 (MDT)
I just had one more quick question. In path of suffering it mentions that your strikes and weapons mode of bones count as adamantine. Does that change anything mechanically, like do they do more damage or anything? Also, what jutsu should my players be using if they plan on sealing beasts
Melee weapons made of or coated with adamantine are unusually effective when used to break objects. Whenever an adamantine weapon hits an object, the hit is a critical hit. And they also overcome the resistance or immunity of certain things/creatures.
You mention that 1 ki = 2 chakra and a spell is equal to three times its level chakra. In "Path of Sealing" at level 7 you get "Nature Sealing Technique" which refers to jutsu, I'm currently participating in a campaign using this subclass (thank you so much its great) and with the DM we decided that using the foretold rule about the ammount of chakra ki and spells are worth I could seal them and release them in a similar fasion. However it doesn't say anything about cantrips, how much would a cantrip be worth chakra wise? Sleepy Âsh (talk) 10:50, 20 June 2021 (MDT)
So it says that to use Jutsu you need both of your hands. I’m guessing that means you need can’t have any weapons in your hands like the Bladed Knuckle Dusters.
- Yes, you would have to drop any weapons or shields in your hands unless it is a weapon with the Glove property.--Ref3rence (talk) 20:41, 2 July 2021 (MDT)
In the Path of the Cursed, when entering the Cursed State one chosen ability increases by 2 to a maximum of 2. Is the 24 limit permanent or only when Cursed State is active?
- As stated directly above that, "While Cursed Mark is active, you are subject to the following:", so this limit would only apply to the increase granted by Cursed Mark.--Ref3rence (talk) 20:41, 2 July 2021 (MDT)
So for the Alternative Feature: Master Strategist for the Puppetmaster Subclass, it says that we can control a fourth and fifth puppet, what is the CR limit for those two. Is it the same CR as the Third Puppet?
- This has been addressed before in the above-linked Clarifications archive "Master strategist does not grant additional puppets, only the ability to control two additional puppets. It's really only a good option if you took human puppeteer or have a very generous DM."--Ref3rence (talk) 20:54, 17 July 2021 (MDT)
As per the editing guide, feel free to add any jutsu/path/etc that you wish to see implemented, though it may or may not be edited. If you don’t know how to write what you want in game terms, feel free to request it here. --Ref3rence (talk) 10:03, 11 July 2019 (MDT)
- also so do you want us to put Homebrew jutsus here because we can't edit the page I'm asking for one of my players who wants to share some of theirs
- Also can we also make requests for jutsus that involve with the whole team combining jutsus? If so I have a few ideas RenBimu
You can suggest anything, but a lot of team jutsu are simply ninja using certain jutsu at the same time, such as the Ino-Shika-Cho formation, so be sure to avoid those ones specifically. --Ref3rence (talk) 20:45, 11 May 2020 (MDT)
A booby trap subclass
- Sorry, I had to take a break from editing for a bit. A trap based subclass would be interesting, but may end up being worked into a puppet subclass. --Ref3rence (talk) 15:33, 26 July 2019 (MDT)
can we have a section for gadgets for the puppet Master class just to give them more variety like what I don't know a spiked sword or trapping system for its own way to shoot darts
Double Human Bullet Tank, Water Release: Surfing Strike
Earth Release: Rock Shuriken
- I’ve added a handful of the requested jutsu. Rock shuriken was not added as one can simply use shuriken shadow clone and simply call it rock shuriken. -Ref3rence (talk) 07:27, 4 March 2020 (MST)
Wind Release: Wind Cutter Technique, Medical Water Release: Water Scorpion, Medical Mode.
- I don't see a mechanical difference between Wind Cutter and Great Sickle Weasel, and Medical Mode and Mitotic Regeneration. As interesting as the Medical Water Styles are, Scorpion doesn’t make offer anything that the Path of the Healer doesn’t. -Ref3rence (talk) 06:32, 7 March 2020 (MST)
Is there any possibility of a Sand style or something similar to what Gaara does? The closest I can see trying get it is using Earth style and stylizing it as sand.
- You are correct. The closest thing to a “Sand Style” is flavoring Earth Style, Magnet Style, a handful of Wind Style Unique Jutsu, and Path of Permanence features. -Ref3rence (talk) 21:05, 20 April 2020 (MDT)
Okay sorry didn't see that thanks. Can you also add wind style great breakthrough?
- I can't really think of a way to differentiate it from the other wind style jutsu, but I might come back to it. --Ref3rence (talk) 21:02, 3 July 2020 (MDT)
Could you add twin lightning blades if that is canon, but something along those lines. If that makes sense lol-D
- I've thought about a good way to adapt double raikiri/double rasengan, but I haven't come up with a good way to do it. The easy answer is to make a jutsu with the same effects twice, but that seems to restrictive. Meanwhile, making a boon to allow for twin jutsu would require marking every jutsu individually as one- or two-handed. I'm sure I'll figure something out, or just buckle and do one of the options I mentioned, but we'll see. --Ref3rence (talk) 09:43, 12 July 2020 (MDT)
Okay thanks and sorry if it is to much extra work. I was also wondering if there is some way to like grapple or able to move sand like gaara does? If that makes any sense? Lol-D
- No worries. Gaara's sand coffin was adapted into the Path of Permanence's Elemental Coffin feature. --Ref3rence (talk) 18:31, 16 July 2020 (MDT)
Yeah I know, I'm not trying to sound mean or rude, I was meaning something like gaara vs sasuke kage summit fight if I'm remembering right. It could be the game version, but gaara was using his sand I guess more like extra limbs like an octopus if that makes any sense lol. Sorry if this is super confusing lol-D Spiked Human Bullet Tank
- Suicide Bombing Clone
- Sword of Kusanagi: Hawk Flash
- Water Release: Water Hail
- Susanoo: Tsukumo
- Crazy Butterfly Kick
- Sealing Technique: Spirit Sealing
- Insect Clone Technique
- Suicide Bombing Clone has not been added due to being too similar to the various explosive clone jutsu and C0. Hawk Flash doesn't seem any different to simply making attacks with a sword, and the same goes for Crazy Butterfly Kick with Butterfly Mode and Alder with Camellia. Water Hail seems identical to any other projectile water jutsu. Tsukumo is already a part of the good-aligned Susanoo's lance. I have no idea how to adapt Spirit Sealing without making it equal in power to a legendary item like the Kohaku no Johei. Adding Insect Clone would negate the decision behind choosing Hive Body over Mimicry. --Ref3rence (talk) 18:28, 25 November 2020 (MST)
Lightning Release: Snake Lightning, Sage Art: Goemon, Frog Kata, Fighting Tongue Bind, Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang, Secret Sword: Moonlight, Chakra Shockwave Slash, Flash, Samurai Sabre Technique, Rupture, Adamantine Seal: Monkey Yang Suppression, Kaima Form,Origami Replacement Technique
- Snake Lightning seems identical to pretty much every lightning jutsu, Goemon is incorporated as part of Elder Toad (5e Creature), Frog Kata is just making unarmed strikes in Sage Mode, Fighting Tongue Bind should be a thing only elder toads can use (which I will add in the future), Light Fang and Origami Replacement are already adapted, and any of the above kenjutsu are either identical to simply making sword attacks or seem difficult to adapt into mechanics, with Monkey Yang Suppression suffering from the latter. --Ref3rence (talk) 14:46, 3 December 2020 (MST)
What about a subclass based off scientific ninja tools and shinobiware like Garo, Kawaki or other members of Kara?
- I think scientific ninja tools and shinobiware should be campaign equipment rather than a subclass. --Ref3rence (talk) 12:28, 27 January 2021 (MST)
Will Kunitsikami and Reibi (Zero-Tails) jinchurikis get a variant rule like you did with the Ten-Tails due to them not being regular Tailed Beasts?
- I don't see why either of those would require variant rules, as neither of them grant their junchuriki the variety of powers the Ten-Tails does. --Ref3rence (talk) 13:09, 30 January 2021 (MST)
I can understand Reibi, but didn’t Kunitsikami Naruto gain access to various nature releases and access to the Kunitsikami (Boon) as well?
- Kunitsukami Naruto gained all of the Super Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken (which might be changed to an enhanced version of TBB enhancement) and MAYBE all of the Jinchuriki feats. That being said, I will add a variant rule for befriending a tailed beast that grants the above in a minute. --Ref3rence (talk) 08:59, 31 January 2021 (MST)
This is a question from one of my players: Hello there, I was wondering why aren't there any path of companionship insect swarm unique jutsu? as well as more of a focus on that part of path of companionship? And does the kikaichu's drain ability, level up with me or no?
- There aren't more insect-specific jutsu because most just aren't mechanically useful or unique, with a similar, if not worse, problem occurring with the Inuzuka's unique jutsu. That being said, feel free to suggest any that you find interesting. Your other question, the original version of the feature had a pretty big blind spot when it comes to saving throws, hopefully this has been rectified.--Ref3rence (talk) 12:30, 2 March 2021 (MST)
Are there currently any plans for changes on Path Of Companionship? I like it as is concept wise, i just think it falls a tad short in the lower level abilities(the upper levels are great as is!), one thing paricularly that i dont think is necessary is the removal of any multiattacks with Companions bond. I also feel as though increasing the max CR of your companion may make the subclass more interesting.
- There are no current plans to change it. The loss of multiattacks and CR limitation is necessary due to having a companion doubling the number of creatures a player controls, specifically twice as many actions and hit points is very VERY powerful. That being said, a companion should probably gain your class features.--Ref3rence (talk) 21:44, 8 March 2021 (MST)
The creature gaining class features seems like a great change, but i imagine this isnt meant to let them cast jutsu, so you may want to specify that. Unless they are meant too, which would be cool, but maybe unrealistic.
- I don't see why they couldn't. Shino and Kiba have their various companions use jutsu regularly, and Itachi can even cast Kotoamatsukami using his crow.--Ref3rence (talk) 20:33, 12 March 2021 (MST)
Separating Path of Companion into their own subclasses: I.E: Beast-Nin, or Insect-Nin would allow for more versatility for both. As it stands, insects seem horrendously outshined when compared to the Beast aspect. I could write up an editable template as I did with the Path of Specialization, if you wish to go down this route. To take some of the weight off of your shoulders. Always willing to help! (Edit) Also, I just noticed someone already brought up Path of Companionship, but my statement stands. Best wishes! (Edit) Sykon (talk) 17:15, 9 March 2021 (MST)
- Sorry for the delay, real life happens sometimes, but hopefully I'm back for now. I didn't distinguish between bug and beast at the time of creation because I couldn't come up with enough interesting ideas unique to insect-nin. That being said, feel free to split them as you wish, Sykon, it's gonna take a minute for me to get back into the editing groove.
I think allowing the Path of The Assassin's deadly blade to benefit from your martial arts feature would be a great idea, because without it your damage eventually falls off compared to normal people using their fists. Im playing with the Path of the Assassin in a campaign rn, and i made my custom nindo have that effect because i really do think its necessary.
- I completely disagree. Most weapons deal around 2d6 damage, so assuming you're using the old unarmed die, you only get outclassed by 0.5 average damage at 11th, and by 3 at 17th. While a difference in 3 certainly matters, it's easily made up for with Proficient Assassin (which only works with weapons, and not unarmed strikes), making you deal an additional 10.5 damage 1/round at 17th and 14 at 18th, which shouldn't be a problem given just how easy it is to gain advantage with jutsu (even with linear jutsu since paralysis seals cost 2 chakra and you get them before Deadly Blade). Also, in terms of nindo, being able to double the amount of damage you deal without limit is far too powerful, maybe something along the lines of being able to make an attack with your blade as a bonus action would be more balanced.--Ref3rence (talk) 10:11, 16 March 2021 (MDT)
Hey, I have a small problem aswell, It has to do with a custom Nindo too, I'm not good at making them either, so i was hoping you could help. I play a girl who is extremely childish, and only gets serious when her friends are in danger. So I was hoping for a nindo of something along the lines of "My friends are all that matter" if you could come up with something that would be amazing. MrxChamp (talk) 06:33, 22 March 2021 (MDT)
- Maybe this is me misunderstanding your request, but that sounds a lot like "I refuse to watch my ally die" or "I'll keep everyone alive".--Ref3rence (talk) 17:54, 22 March 2021 (MDT)
- I see where the mis-understanding is coming from, I do. That just doesn’t fit her actually, I’ll tell you more about her; She is a very childish girl who only gets serious when her friends are in danger, she’s been friends with them for years, and if it helps she uses Basic, Water, and Wood Style, she’s also a medical sage. And she’s protects her friends in not the usual “I took the hit for you” kinda way. Thanks for the help, even if it’s just a idea. MrxChamp (talk) 18:37, 22 March 2021 (MDT)
Just a thought... A crazy one, at that, but a thought. Maybe add the God Tree. Like, add it as an actual thing that people could use in their campaign. Maybe not as a jutsu or a beast (even though it's technically the 10-tails), but as an object. I think it could be a really interesting concept. I would do it myself, but I tend to go a bit bananas when it comes to this kinda world-breaking, reality-shattering, brain-exploding... Stuff. --FrickyDiBoop (talk) 19:26, 27 March 2021 (MDT)
- I'm unsure how the God Tree would function differently from a paralyzed ten-tails.--Ref3rence (talk) 17:43, 28 March 2021 (MDT)
Is there gonna be a variant rule regarding more restrictions about implanted dojutsu such as Sharingan’s extreme chakra drain, Obito supposedly not being able to handle more than 1 Rinnegan and whether or not you can actually implant a Tenseigan seeing as how it just devolves the second you take it from an Otsutsuki.
I don’t know about any side effects with the other implanted dojutsus so I’ll just leave it at that I guess
- Tenseigan implantation limitations are listed under Tenseigan Manifestation in the Path of the Celestial, sharingan chakra drain would be unfun, especially given the other drawbacks of implantation, and Obito's ability to control his rinnegan has always been super vague to the point that there's no actual effects to base rules off of.-Ref3rence (talk) 17:43, 28 March 2021 (MDT)
- I'm taking a second look at this. While I still have no idea how to handle Obito's stated Rinnegan limitation, how does everybody feel about replacing the save timer for Sharingan/Byakugan/Ketsuryūgan with a slight chakra cost that increases when implanted? As I've said before, I really dislike timers, and as much as these have been fine tuned I think it's time for them to go. This might also go a ways to nerfing Replication.--Ref3rence (talk) 15:10, 30 March 2021 (MDT)
I think having an increased chakra cost would be pretty fair for implants considering it being a main aspect of Kakashi’s Sharingan and would make the implantation aspect a bit more balanced in general since I’ve seen tons of players immediately try to steal dojutsu from NPCs and knowing that there’s actual drawbacks to it would most likely change that.
Going back to the main point, chakra costs seems like a good change considering there never really was any sort of timer when discussing dojutsu in canon and all of them seemed to rely on the actual chakra reserves rather than a time limit. --Bobert (talk) 07:03, 31 March 2021 (MDT) Bobert
- Just like removing Deadly Blade, I'm not going to put the edit through quite yet incase anyone has any complaints, but the onl step left is to click save.--Ref3rence (talk) 13:02, 31 March 2021 (MDT)
I think Flame-Burst Shot is pretty overpowered for a jutsu that only costs 5-6 chakra.
- Thanks, I have no idea how that's flown under the radar until now. Hopefully it's far more balanced now.--Ref3rence (talk) 09:41, 7 April 2021 (MDT)
Incendiary Cloud Recreated has a really low chakra cost for the equivalent of an eighth-level spell.
- Thanks for the pointer. As it stands right now, I feel like the recreated spells don't really serve a purpose on this page, and only kinda serve to make multiclassing worthless, so I might remove them. Any thoughts?--Ref3rence (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2021 (MDT)
Yeah I mean I would agree if you really wanted those you would take a class that actually got them, but also why make a homebrew class and a bunch of jutsus designed to go with the class and then have carbon copies of other spells, doesn't make much sense to me. It just doesn't make much sense, in general, to keep them around. Hopefully that opinion can be of help.
This is a bit unrelated but will the Samehada page have the addition of its unique ability to fuse with its user?
I recall the Samehada question being asked before. And he said that it was something more so unique to Kisame, than the blade itself. However with the Hoshigaki race being properly statted now, perhaps adding it in and making that race a requirement would be viable. Thoughts Reference? Sykon (talk) 12:46, 9 April 2021 (MDT)
- Pretty sure I said it was related to Samehada, since the original request was in regards to adding it as an element of the Hoshigaki clan. Nevertheless, I haven't figured out the right way to word it yet.--Ref3rence (talk) 12:51, 9 April 2021 (MDT)
Here’s my take on Jugo’s Clan Kekkai Genkai Jugo’s Kekkai Genkai:
- As a bonus action you can absorb Senjutsu Chakra equal to your Con Modifier + Shinobi level but have to make a DC10 INT (or CON) saving throw or become berserk, the DC increases by 2 for every use
- You gain the same effects of Sage Art whenever you use your senjutsu chakra
- If you have more Senjutsu Chakra points than regular chakra points, you’re forced into the effects of Sage Transformation with the Berserk condition til your Senjutsu Chakra points reach 0 in which the effects of Sage Transformation wear off
- When you’re forced into Sage Transformation, you don’t benefit from the Path of The Cursed Features before that such as Second Stage
- While I appreciate the effort, holy cow is this at least a little busted. Usage of 3 class features, each of which are pretty strong alone, is a little beyond the scope of most clan boons, let alone the ability to regain half of your maximum chakra for a measly DC 10 Constitution saving throw. Additionally, we already have the Jūgo Clan on-page.--Ref3rence (talk) 18:07, 11 April 2021 (MDT)
Eh, fair enough I’ll probably come back with a much more balanced version at some point because now that I think about it, safely gaining 20 senjutsu chakra once your at 20th for at least 1-2 uses is pretty broken --Bobert (talk) 18:28, 11 April 2021 (MDT)
Would Typhoon Release be added? I’ve checked it out and I think in headcanon it would probably be Wind and Yang release
- It is canon, but I'd rather avoid adding a nature with 2 canon jutsu. That being said, I might add them as Wind or Storm Style jutsu.--Ref3rence (talk) 18:47, 11 April 2021 (MDT)
This might be a bit dumb but how about Sexy Jutsu and Harem Jutsu? I’ve already thought about it a little bit.
Cost: 2 chakra
Duration: +1 chakra for every round
- As an action, you cast a variant of the transformation jutsu in order to catch your target offguard, they must make a Charisma saving throw with advantage against your Charisma Score, on a fail, they take 1d4 psychic damage as their nose leaks blood and they’re stunned for rounds equal to your Charisma Mod (Minimum of 1)
- I'm... actually going to add this. It's iconic to the series, and this is a really good adaptation, if a little rough around the edges.--Ref3rence (talk) 19:06, 11 April 2021 (MDT)
- I could've sworn it could be but apparently I was wrong, good catch.--Ref3rence (talk) 15:11, 12 April 2021 (MDT)
So regarding Susanoo, right now armored Susanoo kinda seems more like humanoid Susanoo seeing how the user is placed in the Susanoo's head rather than having them at the base of the Susanoo. Would it make sense to add more stages to the Susanoo between skeletal and armored? Just canonically speaking it doesn't make sense to have someone go directly from manifesting their skeletal Susanoo to having a full armored Susanoo. Another thing, in Susanoo's description it states you have to use it 7 - your Intelligence modifier times before unlocking it, but what stops somebody from activating it and deactivating it that many times to progress it extremely easily?--Jaydon105 (talk) 19:56, 12 April 2021 (MDT)
- I've thought about Humanoid Susanoo, but at the end of the day I can't think of any effects that would both make all 3 stages feel rewarding and keep the feature on the same level of power. Additionally, the X uses to unlock is incredibly easy to fulfill (though I may change the wording so you can only get one use towards advancement per long rest), but if we remove it, you're either stuck with instantly unlocking Armored Susanoo, or the level requirement stops making sense in context.--Ref3rence (talk) 20:37, 12 April 2021 (MDT)
What about a system that requires you to use Susanoo for a certain number of rounds/seconds that can only be fulfilled in combat rather than at any time? And for humanoid Susanoo, one thought I had was to give it an AC bonus of +1 (+4 total), and possibly one of your Susanoo weapons, and maybe granting the user endurance or a pretty small damage threshold or something akin to that while their Susanoo is active to showcase that it gets more durable?--Jaydon105 (talk) 21:42, 12 April 2021 (MDT)
- Generally, 5e (and I with it) try to avoid round counting, and while your proposal technically wouldn't cause the problems round counting does, it feels just too close to it. Additionally, while this is 100% personal, I've always interpreted Susanoo growth as skill using its chakra, for lack of a better term, rather than skill in using the Susanoo itself, if that makes any sense. I'm definitely not going to add an additional AC bonus, since Susanoo + permanent sharingan (gained at 15th) already grants +6 AC, which is frankly disgusting by itself, and while cost generally balances it, I don't want to push my luck, especially by granting Endurance. You did, however, spark an idea. What if instead of Susanoo granting an AC increase, it had its own pool of hit points, potentially represented by a decent, but not spectacular temporary hit points. Every time you summon it, these temporary hit points are regained. While Susanoo is summoned, you can re-summon it as a bonus action or reaction, which counts as a Mangekyou ability, but maintaining it does not. When your temporary hit points reach 0, Susanoo ends. Each Susanoo tier increases the number of temporary hit points granted.--Ref3rence (talk) 21:57, 12 April 2021 (MDT)
That actually sounds like a really good idea, that also might make it easier to implement the Humanoid Susanoo, it also circumvents some of the problems you had earlier. I’ll keep brainstorming ideas on how to fix the Susanoo progression, and I’ll let you know if I think of anything.—-Jaydon105 (talk) 22:45, 12 April 2021 (MDT)
Adding a chakra cost to maintain EMS isn't a minor debuff, it's a rather big nerf. EMS removes the negatives from MS. And while not being forced to make that save is handy, it's still on the DM to grant EMS. Rinnegan is ridiculously powerful and has 0 checks to use its abilities. Sharingan already has an extra step to get to the same tier as Rinnegan. Just my thoughts. Sykon (talk) 06:57, 13 April 2021 (MDT)
- While I understand where you're coming from, the Rinnegan is strong because of the number of features it grants, EMS is strong because it grants infinite use of powerful features, and with the reworked Susanoo, it effectively grants infinite hit points. Even boons have a limit to how powerful they can be, and EMS has been far above it for along time. For comparison, imagine a boon that grants infinite spell slots that can only be used to cast 2 spells, of course that would be busted, even with the limits. Also, broken content is broken content because all content should be treated as if it will be introduced by any DM, not just a good DM.--Ref3rence (talk) 08:37, 13 April 2021 (MDT)
so, the infinite hp is granted by the new susanoo. have you thought that the temporary hp addition to susano is the problem here? i like the idea you have with temporary hp, but maybe you should have a different thing. like if you take enough damage it dispels. maybe a turn limit? just look at the changes it did to ems. like sykon said, its the dms choice to grant it. its like a variant rule to make you stronger. susano is the problem i see. just change the temporary hit points and it will go better. -plywood tank
- Hey, congrats on ignoring 90% of the context, buddy. The temporary hit points were introduced to solve the problem of the Path of Hatred's insane AC bonuses, and Susanoo's tedious saving throws. Is it the DM's choice? Absolutely, but that doesn't change the fact that it's game breaking. This is literally why we have the Help:A Good DM page. If you take enough damage it dispels? Congrats, that's literally the point of the thp. Turn limit/round counting? Garbage, tedious, and not the kind of thing 5e has. Boons are an established part of 5e with an established limit to their power, of which infinite uses of features powerful enough to require cost is not within the bounds of. The thp isn't the whole problem, it's the part of the problem that made me see the entirety of the problem. Is infinite thp a problem? Yes. So is infinite uses of literally any Mangekyo ability. --Ref3rence (talk) 11:38, 13 April 2021 (MDT)
Just add a chakra cost to the Mangekyo abilities, and lessen the DC for using the abilities. EMS never granted infinite uses in canon, it just removed the whole going blind thing. Kamui has a chakra cost as an example. The abilities having no limit to usage count is op, I agree there 100%. Being able to get gradual blindness even after obtaining an epic boon is a bit much, and not all Mangekyo abilities are equal in power to facilitate an 8 chakra cost per usage.
Temporal rewind doesn't really compare to the other Rinnegan Mastered abilities seeing as you have to use your action to activate it, meaning half of the ability is almost useless, because you have very few opportunities to make attacks when it's not your turn, and it has a chakra cost of 7 which is relatively high for something of its power, it would probably make sense to change the wording to either not take an action or to give you your action back after you use it, I'm unsure if the current wording implies that you get your action back in the "and then revert time using your Rinnegan" part, but yeah if so it could probably use some clarification.--Jaydon105 (talk) 14:13, 15 April 2021 (MDT)
- I think making this jutsu a bonus action, or even a free action, would put this on roughly the same level of power as the other abilities. Any thoughts?--Ref3rence (talk) 21:41, 16 April 2021 (MDT)
One Thousand Years Of Death?
- You position your fingers in a way that can cause a creature “great pain” and thrust it against them, make a spell attack, on a hit the creature takes 1d6 + Strength Mod, the DC increases by 2d6 for every size above Medium and is reduced to a D4 if the creature is tiny
- You can also use simple melee weapons in tandem with this Jutsu and add the weapon’s damage with the Jutsu’s
- I'm very unsure of adding this jutsu. Why is the DC increasing with size on a jutsu that doesn't have a saving throw? If you meant damage, that still doesn't make much sense. The closest way I could see this working is as a taijutsu variant of the already-adapted Sexy Jutsu with a range of touch and an attack roll instead of a saving throw, but even then I'd have to think on it.--Ref3rence (talk) 21:41, 16 April 2021 (MDT)
Oof prolly should’ve worded it out better but here’s an example,
Tiny Creatures using this jutsu have a damage die of a d4
Medium Creatures have a d6
Large Creatures have 3d6
And so on and so forth
The main reason I made the damage dice increase per size is because of the 𝘴𝘪𝘻𝘦 of the hands being used to attack
- But why would this apply to this jutsu, but not a regular unarmed strike? And why wouldn't this just be an unarmed strike with an additional temporary effect?--Ref3rence (talk) 09:15, 17 April 2021 (MDT)
Fair enough I guess, the only thing that sets this Taijutsu different from others is that you can use it along with a simple weapon (as shown with Naruto against Gaara)
I think that Path of Assassin’s “Blade Master” needs to be buffed more especially since it’s transition from a Seven Deadly Swordsman subclass to a more Zabuza-ish one, so here’s my suggestion for an alternate feature based off of Zabuza’s awakening in the Storm games.
Your desire to kill is so extreme that it begins to physically manifests itself in a demonic shroud around you.
- You gain a +2 to your attack and damage rolls
- Whenever you hit a creature with advantage with the attack option, you may use use the attack action on the same creature again
- Your damage dice increased by 1 level (d4s turn into d8s, d8s turn into d10s and etc)
- When you drop to 0 Hit Points and not outright killed, you can make 1 + Half your CHA Mod more attack actions on any creatures of your choice
- You can only use your turn to attack and you may only use jutsus that deal direct damage
- Creatures under the effect of your Killing Intent gain disadvantage on their Saving Throws while they’re in your line of sight
- This lasts for an amount of rounds equal to your Charisma Mod
- This seems like a pretty good idea, its a little bit broken, but I should be able to adapt it, Path of the Assassin is pretty weak so this seems reasonable.--Jaydon105 (talk) 14:51, 19 April 2021 (MDT)
- I've changed this to an Alternate Feature because not only is this very powerful, but y'all are sleeping on Vanish. At will, low cost invisibility is very powerful, especially with Silent Killing Jutsu and Afterglow. While it's situational, in a Naruto setting where ninjas actually do infiltration and whatnot, the ability to leave 0 trace of your existence is incredibly powerful, and in traditional play it is still useful for rogue-like characters who effectively never have to worry about bounty hunters for the rest of time.--Ref3rence (talk) 15:53, 19 April 2021 (MDT)
can we get more clan boons that give kekkei genkai?
- There aren't more at the moment because we don't have more named clans that use KG. To be fair, you're always free to suggest anything.--Ref3rence (talk) 10:18, 22 April 2021 (MDT)
the temuri clan was able to get lava and boil release. maybe have a choice between the two for the clan boon. senju gains hashirama's cells feat. onoki clan gains dust release. Kazekage clan gets magnet release. The yakushi clan can absorb peoples kekkei genkai and take the kekkei genkai as their next chakra nature. The pakura clan gains scorch release. The darui clan gains storm release. feel free to suggest more clans -plywood tank
Makes enough sense to me, except for Onoki’s Dust Release because it was said that Mu taught Onoki Dust Release, so it wasn’t a bloodline limit and Yakushi’s Clan Boon since Kabuto never had the innate ability to absorb Kekkai Genkai, he actually just experimented and implanted multiple cells into his own body. Magnet release is arguable since only Gaara and Rasa had the kekkai genkai, but that’s just my piece --Bobert (talk) 23:13, 23 April 2021 (MDT)
I don't think it's ever been said whether or not who Gaara's grandfather is or even if he's related to the 3rd Kazekage at all, so again, Kazekage Clan Boon granting Magnet Release is still arguable.--Bobert (talk) 10:46, 26 April 2021 (MDT)
- It's not confirmed nor stated otherwise, but they do hail from the same bloodline so it would only make sense that it would be their Kekkei Genkai.--Jaydon105 (talk) 17:17, 26 April 2021 (MDT)
- The Kazekage clan granting Wind Style affinity is more fitting due most, if not all, of Gaara’s sand jutsu being Wind Style before he learned Magnet Style, Temari being one of the most naturally skilled Wind Style users, and that even when operating under the assumption that the 3rd was Gaara’s grandfather, it was stated that he learned it from observing Shukaku’s use of Magnet Style, implying that he would’ve already needed its component natures, and therefore Wind Style.—Ref3rence (talk) 15:39, 29 April 2021 (MDT)
I think Path of Sight's Eight Trigrams One Hundred Twenty-Eight Palms should be buffed more along with having an increased chakra cost since it's supposed to be the 2x version of the 64 Palms and combat-wise 64 palms does more damage overall and the paralyzed condition duration barely has any difference to 128 Palms due to the target being able to repeat the saving throw during their turns anyways. Unless each unarmed strike deals 4d10 per hit of course, which leaves for my request to only increase the chakra cost a bit more.
I know this may sound stupid, but i was wondering if we could add an extra chakra optional rule based off of ninjas like jiraya or deidara. i doubt that jiraya could summon the equivalent of 3 gamabuntas (the "clumsy" frog and fukasaku and shima) and still be able to fight pain with epic jutsus with the current chakra limit. maybe we could multiply the chakra by two again for the optional rule. Plywood tank (talk) 19:23, 30 April 2021 (MDT)
I think the Jiraiya Clan Boon and Cooperation Jutsu Variant rule can pretty much explain on how Jiraiya’s able to summon toads and continue to cast Jutsus with them. Plus I think average Chakra costs are pretty fair since we’ve got tons of Feats (Masterful Chakra Control,Overflowing Chakra,etc) and Boons (Improved Hashirama Cells,Ashura’s Reincarnation,etc) that add to the chakra cost. Because an average Shinobi has nowhere near the same amount of chakra as people like Naruto, take a look at Jonins like Kakashi,Asuma and Konohamaru, they don’t spam jutsus since it would be chakra-wasting and only use 1-3 jutsus during full fights on average, the rest are just unarmed strikes. That being said, it’s all up to Ref3rence if the chakra maximum were to be increased I guess --Bobert (talk) 08:15, 1 May 2021 (MDT)
- As Bobert stated above, it just wouldn't make sense for every character to have ridiculous levels of chakra. Jiraiya can easily be represented using the Jiraiya Clan Boon and Cooperation Jutsu, while Deidara can be represented using the Iwagakure Kinjutsu boon, and there's numerous ways to increase your maximum chakra without arbitrarily doubling it.--Ref3rence (talk) 08:45, 1 May 2021 (MDT)
Hey ref3 this is killshot300 idk if you remember me but I'm just here to thank you and to show my thanks for making this class still going. i still remember when the class was like 5 justus only for the basic natures and I kept bothering you for new things and thanks for everything- killshot
- Hey, man! Thanks, that means a lot, I really hope you're doing well. The work of other users on this page really can't be understated, though. This class couldn't've become how it is today without the work of every person who's edited this page, including you.--Ref3rence (talk) 12:51, 3 May 2021 (MDT)
I think Path of Sight's Eight Trigrams One Hundred Twenty-Eight Palms should be buffed more along with having an increased chakra cost since it's supposed to be the 2x version of the 64 Palms and combat-wise 64 palms does more damage overall and the paralyzed condition duration barely has any difference to 128 Palms due to the target being able to repeat the saving throw during their turns anyways. Unless each unarmed strike deals 4d10 per hit of course, which leaves for my request to only increase the chakra cost a bit more.
I think that Whirlwind Fist[Wind Style] and Dance of Crescent Moon[Taijutsu] (both follow the chidori jutsu template but just do less damage) need to be changed. Not vastly. Just some minor tweaks to make them worthwhile. They waste the same amount of chakra as Chidori, but do less damage, which is kind of odd when you consider that Lightning style is supposed to be the chakra vacuum. Now, I don't think the damage is the problem. I think the chakra cost is what does it, but adding another effect or boost would do the trick. So for Whirlwind Fist I don't think a serious change is needed since it almost matches up to Chidori. Maybe make it knock the enemy back 15ft +5ft for every 2 chakra. But for the Dance, I think it should be implemented differently. The explanation is long, so I'll just edit it in and you tell me what you think. Even if you don't like it, I have the current version saved just in case. --FrickyDiBoop (talk) 07:53, 4 May 2021 (MDT)
Partial Second Stage (Based off Sasuke,Jugo and Kabuto’s ability to partially manifest their Diversified Second Stage Effect)
Prerequisites: 10th Level or higher, Path of The Cursed and Constitution 18
- You permanently gain the effects of your Diversified Second Stage
(Here’s an alternate option if it feels broken)
- As a bonus action, you gain the effects of your Diversified Second Stage for an amount of rounds equal to your CON modifier. You may do this a number of times equal to half your CON Modifier and is regained after a short or long rest. --Bobert (talk) 03:15, 8 May 2021 (MDT)
- Ok. So. I’ve been here before, but this time it’s not really a suggestion as what to add, but rather something that seems off. The Path of Future seems out of place, considering how none-cannon it seems. I don’t recall it being a huge part of the series, and it seems so out of place. Maybe have a collection of jutsu or something? A whole subclass seems a little strange.....
While I understand where you’re coming from, I greatly disagree. If we’re saying the movies are no-canon, and that non-canon content isn’t deserving of a subclass, then the Path of the Celestial should be dismantled as well, which is just wrong. It doesn’t have the problem of being too fanon, since any added information is purely flavor text. If we’re deciding that, to deserve a subclass, a concept needs to be major in the overall plot, then Blood, Celestial, Future, Warrior, Shikigami, Sealing, Specialization, and Mutation would all have to be reduced to a jumble of unique jutsu. Shion’s dojutsu is as deserving of being a subclass as any other dojutsu. It’s also worth noting that it was added with the partial intent to not make Perfect Vessel stronger than Dojutsu Master after having added the Path of the Snake. —Ref3rence (talk) 16:55, 27 May 2021 (MDT)
- Yo. It’s ya boy. A huge fan of this awesome thing you’ve done. Just looking at the Path of Sage, and was thinking. Shouldn’t it add senjutsu to a max of your max chakra or whatever, rather than replacing your chakra with senjutsu chakra. With the way it’s worded now (intended or not) you only benefit from sage mode, and not really any additional chakra. It’s good, but falls short in front of other subclasses.
- We experimented with Path of the Sage granting additional chakra for a while, but ultimately it became too much to manage and resulted in effectively infinite chakra, which is a big no. That being said, you get Sage Art at 7th level, the core bonuses of Sage Mode are pretty good, and unlike every other subclass form, you don't actually have to spend chakra to maintain it, so it ends out being about as powerful as the others.--Ref3rence (talk) 21:33, 30 July 2021 (MDT)
- Understandable. Thank you for such a quick response, and while I think I might rule it differently for a homebrew game, I understand and thank you for your time.
Would anybody find it at all useful if I created a campaign setting page for Naruto? I’ve been kicking around the idea for a while, but I want to know if anyone would actually use it. -Ref3rence (talk) 06:13, 13 November 2019 (MST)
I think that's an excellent idea. This class in particular is heavily bent towards working better in its own setting rather than in a normal D&D setting.
I honestly think creating a setting on its own for it would be optimal.
I'm loving the look of it so far, and I'm glad to see my items have been added to it too.
In my opinion they should probably be around CR 10-15 depending on the Character.
Considering the Akatsuki were supposed to be able to take down tailed beasts in teams of two (With the assistance of their rings, if I remember correctly. Which could be incorporated into their stat blocks), maybe their CR could increment depending on the amount of members present at the time.
Having Akatsuki members' abilities synergise with their respective partners could also be a fun idea.
The Sannin are a bit harder to decide though. They're supposed to be great on their own, rather than specifically as an unit. So I think a CR 18 or so might be appropriate, if they can utilise minions (summoning creatures to help, for example) that CR could probably be pumped up.
Is it possible to add movie creatures like the zero tails
Hey I don't want to come off rude or anything but when do you plan on working more on the Akatsuki members? Sorry if it sounds like I am coming off rude lol.-D
- I kinda put the project to the side for a while. I will most likely add them at a later date, but if anybody wants to contribute to the Akatsuki or any other part of this setting, go right ahead. -Ref3rence (talk) 16:46, 16 March 2020 (MDT)
I would love to help but I am pretty new to DND. But sounds great and thanks for everything. -D
- I recently made a large amount of stat blocks for the Akatsuki (5e Creature) and Naruto at Jinchuriki Overview (5e Creature). I would really appreciate if some of y'all could sort through the new pages because I'm sure I missed some things. I also botched all but Naruto's base forms's CRs, but I'm so burned out at this point to fix it right now. -Ref3rence (talk) 19:23, 15 April 2020 (MDT)
Damn dude you put alot of work into this and I'm like impressed af over all this hard work you ever take any breaks my dude? RenBimu
- Thanks for your support! I didn't have to do anything else for the past few days, so this is pretty much all I've done save for walking my dog so I don't atrophy. I finally got into the flow of making creatures, so it looks like more work than it is. -Ref3rence (talk) 21:15, 16 April 2020 (MDT)
Hey man under the Jinchuriki Overview you have nine tailed jinchuriki listed twice RenBimu
I check back on here very 3 hours or so seeing what's been added and if I cetch anything I'll let you know bro RenBimu
I've corrected two so far. 1: 3rd hokage was the 4th hokage name I and I changed that to his rightful name. And 2: in 4th hokage his big ball rasangon you had "from naruto" and I changed that to his rightful name. RenBimu
- Thanks again. I used Minato as a base for the other Hokage, and I think Minato himself was derived from Sage Naruto. -Ref3rence (talk) 09:36, 19 April 2020 (MDT)
Well in cannon Minato did take the yin or yang part of the 9 tails and sealed it inside himself and sealed the other half in naruto before he died and what little chakra they had left they left ot there just in case the seal breaks RenBimu
I have a question my man. Are you going to make a campaign or set up different missions? RenBimu
- Definitely, but I think it’ll probably be the, or at least one of the, last steps. --Ref3rence (talk) 14:46, 22 April 2020 (MDT)
I feel like this is better balanced and earlier versions and easier to understand, I just wanted to make some requests. Could evasion & ninja speed not use chakra? I did like some other the older feats like the way shadow clone jutsu & substitution worked, also picking which saving throws you wanted. Lastly I just wanted to ask if you could add sneak attack and expertise, I feel like those would be useful mechanics for a shinobi both combat and roleplaywise. -User:Lowrider93 11:54, 17 January 2021 (PT)
- Ninja Speed uses chakra for the sake of at least trying to be balanced in normal play, other core classes get similar features but are more bread-and-butter there than in this class. Evasion doesn't use chakra, so I don't know what you're asking there. Path of the Assassin shinobi get sneak attack, and there are numerous ways to get specific expertise, once again these are added in lesser/more restricted forms due to being less of BNB features. --Ref3rence (talk) 20:47, 17 January 2021 (MST)
Whats on our to do list today boss? RenBimu
- I'll probably finish off the Leaf and then start working my way down the Sound from the top. If you wanted, I would really appreciate it if you helped with Dosu down to Karin. --Ref3rence (talk) 10:20, 30 April 2020 (MDT)
Should we make a naruto human race that gives clan and a slight buff tonthe class or no? ~killshot
- I always figured the variant human works pretty well for that with the adaptable ASI and, while it isn't outright stated, the feat choice could be used for hiden/kekkei genkai jutsu. --Ref3rence (talk) 10:44, 6 May 2020 (MDT)
I think maybe the cells traits or epic boons could bee the reward of missions from Orochimaru seeing how advanced his base is in Boruto
- That's entirely up to the DM. While they certainly could be, completely restricting them to one source would heavily limit a DM. --Ref3rence (talk) 07:29, 25 July 2020 (MDT)
But I do have questions do you plan on making the sound 4 or kaguya or naruto and sasuke as creatures?
That's awesome to see at least the important characters are gonna be in there it fit well for the campaign setting you have I just wish I knew how this format works and I'd create some of the characters along side you -Bimu
- Honestly, I’d say the best way to start is to make an account and use trial and error. If you need any help, don’t hesitate to ask. -Ref3rence (talk) 09:03, 21 March 2020 (MDT)
Alright ill give that a shot bro -Bimu
Hey I saw in the campaign settings for the leaf you did have the anbu but took it away. I was wondering if you are going to or if you could add anbu? Of course whenever you are done with your break.-Sean
- The purpose of Anbu was originally to be the Hidden Leaf's "special shinobi" in the same way that the Sand has puppet masters, Mist has hunter-nin, Cloud has kenjutsu, and Stone has Kamizuru, though I may replace them with Explosion Corps. Since Konoha has a ton of unique clans, Anbu kinda lost its place. You can pretty much use any jonin or clan to represent Anbu.--Ref3rence (talk) 11:54, 27 May 2020 (MDT)
I think Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Indra Susanoo Sasuke should be more powerfull because they are suposed to be able to fight kaguya and as of right now kaguya can one shot them whit: "Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack (50 Chakra). All creatures in a 30 ft. x 90 ft. line must attempt a DC 32 Constitution saving throw. On a failure, they take 244 (36d12 + 10) magical bludgeoning damage. On a success, they take half as much damage."--Ranuto08 (talk) 02:37, 11 December 2020 (MST)
To add onto the above, They are indeed WAY too weak, and naruto's chakra is not what it should be (it should be like 90, asura's reincarnation and overflowing chakra) nore are their features up to date (Like susanoo taking chakra) -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Archmage Karsus (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.
- If you want, you are free to make your changes to this setting. To be honest, it's not that high up on my priorities right now. Also, please be sure to sign your posts (can be done with ~~~~ ). --Ref3rence (talk) 20:20, 8 January 2021 (MST)
Hey, thanks for the love for the jutsu's! ^^ I put quiet a bit of thought into a lot of them. I wanted to ask though, as this seems to be a mix between a conversion kit and a playable DND 5e class, is that what it's supposed to be? I personally wanted to with some friends, make a conversation kit using your system as a basis if you do not mind as well. --Hit (Wo)Man (talk) 11:35, 3 April 2021 (CDT)
- I guess I've never really thought of it like that, but I guess it is. Shinobi World (5e Campaign Setting) is meant to more-or-less replace everything except the core rules of 5e. You're free to do whatever you like with this page, nothing on this wiki is copywritten or anything, but if you'd like I've been trying to overhaul the NPCs in this setting to be more shonen-friendly by rebuilding them from the ground up as player characters, so if you're interested in hopping on that with me let me know and I'll try to give you some general pointers.--Ref3rence (talk) 11:27, 3 April 2021 (MDT)
Oh I probably will help. I actually play in like, 2 games with one game being played in and one DMing for, both pure naruto. I wanted to make an actual like, Conversion Kit for this as, the class is near impossible to play in a normal game and the class itself is hard enough to balance normally. But, a lot of good work has been done --Hit (Wo)Man (talk) 12:50, 3 April 2021 (CDT)
- As much as we've tried, this class is a bit sketch to use in a base 5e game. For those pointers I was talking about, rank is based on CR/level for the sake of categories, not necessarily their actual canon rank, though most tend to match. CR 10 is high Genin/low Chunin, CR 15 is high Chunin/low Jonin, CR 20 is high Jonin/low Kage, and CR 25 is high Kage/low Otsutsuki, but Otsutsuki tier is a lot more up to interpretation (see Kakashi, Six Paths (Shinobi World Supplement)). The only creatures who should have jutsu lists are those with multiple pages for the same person like Naruto. I would prefer you leave the Leaf, Generic, and Legendary pages alone for now as there's still a lot of major changes to be made there that I really don't want to trust other people to make, but otherwise, go at it. I would suggest you look at a handful of "finalized" pages first to get a handle on formatting (finalized pages should be moved so they end with (Shinobi World Supplement) instead of (5e Creature)). I'm so glad to have another person on this project.--Ref3rence (talk) 19:38, 3 April 2021 (MDT)
Quality Article Nomination
Support. The shinobi is a class with a unique role for any party that is also full with interesting mechanics, rules that add flavor to the campaign, and a system like spells. --Green Dragon (talk) 01:02, 12 February 2021 (MST)
Support. I believe this class to be a relatively sound example of how to adapt content, with things like the paths of the exalted and totality being both accurately represented, yet balanced with things like the path of the shikigami and puppet master, and nothing under the sun being given any particularly ludicrous benefits. That being said, when viewing this as a QA, I'm not entirely sure having unarmored movement
and increasing unarmed strikes adds all that much to the class, and really just serves to cause overlap with monks in a traditional party, but that isn't something that can't be ironed out. --Ref3rence (talk) 04:58, 12 February 2021 (MST)
Support While I personally have issues with the source material, the sheer amount of effort put into cataloging, translating into game mechanics, and balancing everything from a god-knows-how-long anime is staggering. This article is a great example of the best of the active, user-lead projects on the wiki. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:14, 23 March 2021 (MDT)
Oppose See my comment below; I think the sheer size of the page hinders its readability. If the page length is reduced, I'd be open to changing my vote to support. — Geodude (talk | contribs | email) . . 13:20, 14 April 2021 (MDT) it got reduced -plywood tank
Support I believe this is a great class and has some great mechanics that make it fun to play even after playing it ten times because of the variety of subclasses. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Plywood tank (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.
Support I believe this class to be a fantastic example of how to adapt homebrew content from existing sources in a balanced manner, while also granting unique abilities that not only make it extremely different from any other class in combat but bring up a lot of funny and memorable roleplaying moments as well. The community has been nothing shy of exemplary and is an awesome example of working together and working hard to adapt content, and I'm glad to say that this is definitely the best class I've ever spent time working on and playing.--Jaydon105 (talk) 23:58, 21 April 2021 (MDT)
Support This class is one of the best examples of a well-done class on the Wiki. It is incredibly well-written, clear, and balanced. While I do agree that it is a bit wordy, it has a lot of flavor to it, and it is incredibly well done. Every class on the wiki should strive to be something like this in terms of clarity of features and general balance. While I don't know anything about the world of Naruto, this class seems to be balanced, so whoever adapted it, good job. --MarshDASavage (talk) 20:47, 22 April 2021 (MDT)
This page is extremely long; over half a megabyte. I wonder if it would be worth it to split the many subclasses off to their own pages for the sake of readability. — Geodude (talk | contribs | email) . . 13:19, 14 April 2021 (MDT)
- So that sad day has finally come. I'm not going to fight, this page has had it coming for months, however I don't believe the subclasses are the problem. We effectively have an entire chapter of spells on one page that easily makes up more than half of the contents, so I believe the best course of action would be to move the chakra natures either to their own page, or make individual pages for each nature. Any thoughts?--Ref3rence (talk) 13:27, 14 April 2021 (MDT)
I don't know if you're looking for opinions from anyone in particular? But seeing as chakra natures/jutsu take up a little over half the page that seems like the most sensible option.--Jaydon105 (talk) 13:26, 15 April 2021 (MDT)
there should be a link over to the jutsu page in the chakra section. -plywood tank
So I don't know if it was premature but I actually created individual pages for each Chakra Nature and Kekkei Genkai etc. except for Path Unique Jutsu which would probably make more sense to leave on page IMO, I figured we should just create a list of links under the chakra natures, which I'll probably do tonight, if I did anything wrong or anyone thinks the links could be moved somewhere else, feel free to change it or just undo my revision and do it a different way, just figured this would help out.--Jaydon105 (talk) 20:43, 16 April 2021 (MDT)
- Spot on with taking the initiative. That being said, you removed a few categories that I'll be re-adding in a minute, with a little false breadcrumb on top of it linking back to this class.--Ref3rence (talk) 21:41, 16 April 2021 (MDT)
So regarding the Path Unique Jutsu, I don't know whether we should leave them on-page or move them off as well? If they do stay on-page should we just detail them at the bottom of each subclass rather than at the bottom of the class?--Jaydon105 (talk) 00:42, 17 April 2021 (MDT)
I don't know if this was intentional but it appears as though Flying Raijin and other Fuinjutsu have been lost in the shuffle
- I'd do the same with the feats. List them on the page and hyperlink to feat page. Red Leg Leo (talk) 11:06, 22 April 2021 (MDT)
I would suggest clearing this discussion, or adding a bracket to discuss new edits that are major. With the new links added in, previous edits won't appear in the History anymore, and it would be tedious to have to click through individual tabs to see the edit history. Admittedly that's my only gripe with the changes made. Sykon (talk) 18:23, 22 April 2021 (MDT)
- We can always create individual talk pages, or we could make a section here like you said, doesn't make a difference to me.--Jaydon105 (talk) 19:01, 22 April 2021 (MDT)
- I agree, I just wasn't sure where to put it, if you have an idea though go ahead.--Jaydon105 (talk) 15:42, 24 April 2021 (MDT)
When we have a clarification/request about a certain subclass or chakra nature, do we discuss it here in the main page or do we discuss it in their own separate pages?--Bobert (talk) 06:27, 26 April 2021 (MDT)
- I'm honestly still unsure as well, I think it would be fine to just create talk pages for each of them and talk there, I might just do that quickly, with just a clarification and request catagory.--Jaydon105 (talk) 17:10, 26 April 2021 (MDT)
Not that big of a deal since we haven’t encountered any issues regarding this yet but should Ref3rence (talk make it so that only autoconfirmed users can edit the individual Path,Jutsu and Feat pages so that it’s easier to communicate with someone who’s added or removed something important without bringing it up on discussions? --Bobert (talk) 13:16, 29 April 2021 (MDT)
- While I second your suggestion, I am not an admin, so I don’t really have that kind of power.—Ref3rence (talk) 15:32, 29 April 2021 (MDT)
I hope these comments help.
- fix jutsu column. says one jutsu at level but it isn't a feature until level two. I think it can also be detailed better. Chakra is the topic but jutsu comes out of left field. To non-Naruto people this probably isn't an issue but I find a little clarity could be useful here.
- scrolls, non-shinobi DC is arbitrary. Why 17? maybe make it equal to a DC of whoever created the scroll. DMs and improvise DCs for random scrolls. I also don't know how to use these scrolls. Weapon scrolls give some guidance but as far as I can tell, all I can do is draw the scrolls.
- Chakra seems to start simple but then Natures, paths, etc are discussed and the feature becomes convoluted. This really needs to be simplified and when natures or paths are introduced, they can describe in what way they affect chakra i.e. under subclasses you include chakra learned do not count against the number of chakra you learn. Leave that out of the chakra section. I like the touch of non-damage chakra using half jutsu out of combat. Reminds me of a ritual casting, and the reasoning is flavorful with canon i'd say.
- scroll upgrade seems to compound an already utility feature for a class. This better monk is already got options and utuility, I dare say more than an artificer? 5e wants options for players over moar damage for sure, but ideally this is a party game and no one class should be doing everything. I could be wrong and the class isn't but glancing over, sooo much utility here.
- I really don't feel like I need to explain why giving a class an additional subclass is OP. I would develop a more traditional feature for 5e and create a sidebar for this to be an optional feature that follows canon.
- what is the classes final feature? level 20 subclass feature? obviously but I feel jipped. I won't make it negative. It is unconventional though.
I am confused how a mantra bestows benefits. That said, it is a fantasy game. In the features current state, there appears no reason for how to decide the benefits. It is literally, decide with your DM what bonus they'll give you as long as you roleplay in accordance with said characters ninja way. D&D crunch is usually much more precise than this, and it is why I don't like this feature. I am also taking the practice jutso 1,000 times nindo because +3 hit and damage bonus is on par with a legendary item *cough cough*. I recommend determining a method to this madness so each nindo has some sort of balance to another. Not perfect, just comparable. Red Leg Leo (talk) 11:18, 22 April 2021 (MDT)
So closer look I've learned the nature thing is just a school of magic like thing. I think the chakra section would greatly benefit if subtitles were used to give a heads up to readers. Like the wizard has Ritual Casting title under spell casting. Like I didn't know in order to pick jutsu I needed a nature. I also wasn't following that jutsu are essentially spells. The chakra section isn't precise about these nuances. Red Leg Leo (talk) 11:41, 22 April 2021 (MDT)
Advanced Training has been a point of contention as of recently, for a pretty understandable reason, use of a whole extra subclass can be really OP, especially when it's used in conjunction with something like the Gestalt Subclasses variant rule, so I made this section to discuss potential alternatives or changes, so if you've got anything, feel free to speak up.--Jaydon105 (talk) 23:21, 22 April 2021 (MDT)
Some thoughts I had were, an option to increase your chakra point maximum by 5-10, an additional ASI or feat, maybe an increase to movement speed or something along those lines.--Jaydon105 (talk) 00:25, 23 April 2021 (MDT)
- I don't think creating material with gestalt characters in mind is the appropriate thought. Gestalt in general is busted. Red Leg Leo (talk) 08:22, 28 April 2021 (MDT)
While playtesting this class with some of my good friends we found a few issues. The playtest was in the scenario of the Zabuza arc, meaning we were level 9 (because that was directly after they learned to walk up walls, and directly before they receive the abilities used in the chunin exams.) and we found a few things wrong with the class.
Path of Sight: One of the more minor things we noticed is that the byakugan (now that I think about it, I think multiple subclasses get it) receives a truesight of 30 feet at level 3. A warlock whose whole thing is oooh Ethereal plane oooh, receives truesight at level 15, while specific classes can only get truesight from a sixth level spell. Again, it's not a huge deal, because it's not all too powerful and won't be used too often unless you come across the invisible man, but I think it's a bit unfair for the other classes who want the same thing. Also, in the setting of Naruto, there are a lot of characters who specialize in genjutsu are made useless against them, for instance, the path of blood. I would recommend making it blindsight with the addition of being able to see chakra and whatnot. Though, one of the things I am a bit unhappy about is that the blindspot of byakugan is never once mentioned, regardless of it being a huge weakness.
Maximum for how much chakra can be put into jutsu: When said fight with Zabuza actually began, I noticed something was wrong with specifically, great fireball. It says you can put one extra chakra point into the jutsu to do an extra 1d6 fire damage. This is very close to how the fireball spell works, so I can see why you missed this. There is not a maximum for how many points you can put into the jutsu. With the con modifier of the character making 20 chakra points total, it allowed the character to put 12 points into the jutsu, making it the equivalent of a 15TH LEVEL FIREBALL, which as you know, isn't even possible to cast. You unlock 9th level spells at around the end of progression, but a shinobi can cast the equivalent of a 9th level fireball by level 7 at the latest. I'm sure this issue exists with other jutsu as well, and some of them it isn't a huge deal, such as substitution, which essentially allows you to completely dodge an attack for enough chakra points, which is on par with deflect missiles from the monk. Jutsu such as that, where it doesn't outclass similar features or spells from other classes by a landslide, nor does it allow the players to do an average of 80 damage per turn at level 9. You can argue that it's too risky to spend all of your chakra on a single jutsu for a chance of instantly killing the boss, but you underestimate the stupidity of both my and other players. They thought the best plan of action was that ALL OF THEM use all of their chakra on great fireball because it gave Zabuza no chance of surviving. You can also argue that most of the ninjas have evasion, but the majority of monsters don't, so in a normal setting, player characters can just breeze through combat, especially at later levels.
Increasing the DC for saving throws is stupid: For example, sealing jutsu allows you to increase the DC of the save for a singular chakra point. This is similar to how certain spells allow you to increase the DC for a save by expending spell slots, but not only is that limited to the 9th level, most of those require multiple spell slots more than the original cost to even increase the DC by 1. This is similar to the last issue I mentioned both because there is no limit to how many chakra points you can spend on it, but also because there is no limit on the stupidity of players, and they will make the DC impossible to pass, especially at later levels.
So regarding the new changes to Genjutsu making it a chakra nature, maybe not the best idea to implement it in the way that it was. Genjutsu are all Yin Style techniques, so maybe adding some Genjutsu in that nature would be a good idea, but the way it's been implemented doesn't really work. Chakra natures are supposed to be, well, natural, it would be like adding a "Ninjutsu Nature".--Jaydon105 (talk) 08:26, 5 May 2021 (MDT)
I agree that it’s a bit odd to make Genjutsu into a nature since all of it is Yin Release in the first place, I think it might be better to just move those to the Yin page and label which jutsu are considered Genjutsu or not?--Bobert (talk) 14:33, 5 May 2021 (MDT)
- Yeah that was the original plan, but I guess we'll let this ride for now and change it if need be, though I do think the idea of having to learn Yin Style and the "Genjutsu Style" is sorta redundant.--Jaydon105 (talk) 18:01, 5 May 2021 (MDT)
I've been thinking of implementing a subtle Genjutsu to the Path of Hatred Unique Jutsu akin to what Sasuke used against Danzo, still thinking of how exactly it would have to be worded, any suggestions would be appreciated.--Jaydon105 (talk) 01:12, 28 May 2021 (MDT)
That seems like a neat idea, I suggest that you’d just name the jutsu as it is since I plan on rewording the whole Yin and Genjutsu thing in order for it to be more organized and possibly just adding “Genjutsu” as some sort of label instead of making a column for it along with getting rid of the basic technique due to it not being counted as its own nature --Bobert (talk) 08:13, 30 May 2021 (MDT)