Talk:Naruto: Shinobi (5e Class)/Archive 1

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Sage Mode[edit]

And as for yin and Yang to be honest you could honestly split them off because we don't have that many both yin and yang jutsus I know yin style is used for more genjutsu and yang is more bending of chakra

I understand your concerns with Sage Mode, at this point it is too ingrained into the class, and making 2 separate natures for Yin and Yang would be difficult as there isn’t much of a power range among them individually. --Ref3rence (talk) 16:14, 17 July 2019 (MDT)

so now that sage isnt really that important as a class ability will is be come a sub class now

"I'm not sure what you mean by "sage isn't really that important". The feature is pretty good as it is, considering the other simultaneous feature you attain at that level. Could you please elaborate? Kiralokiin (talk)"

Well the way how sage mode works is that not an average ninja can get it and it requires longs amounts to get it


"I see what you mean, but getting a character to 17th level is a very long ordeal. The feature is placed at such high level since, in-game, it would have taken you a long time to get to the point of being able to attain any kind of Sage Mode. But I suppose that it simply comes down to the flavouring that you and your DM agree upon. If you're both capable, I'm sure you can figure out a narrative that works. That said, I still don't believe there are any major changes that Sage Mode needs right now. " --Kiralokiin (talk) 03:02, 6 October 2019 (MDT)

Questions[edit]

I wanted to know what the damage of the kunai are?

And shuriken?

Kunai and shuriken both use the stats of darts, and deal 1d4 piercing damage. --Ref3rence (talk) 20:28, 3 July 2019 (MDT)

Thanks and can the sharingan at 3rd tomoe copy jutsu's like fireball?

I’d leave that up to your DM, but I would say yes under a few conditions. The user has to have seen it at least once, can only use it while their Sharingan is active, and it must be a jutsu (Great Fireball) and not a spell (3rd level evocation spell fireball). --Ref3rence (talk) 20:35, 3 July 2019 (MDT)

And also is this mostly based off of dnd 5th edition?

This is a 5e homebrew class, yes. I don’t believe it will work very well directly with other game systems. --Ref3rence (talk) 20:37, 3 July 2019 (MDT)

Okay thanks and sorry for all the questions I am pretty new to dnd

And also sorry for more questions but this si the last one for right now will you add more mangekyo abilities?

Don’t worry about asking me questions, helping out newer players is something more people should do. As for the Mangekyō, I want to add more but haven’t gotten around to it. Same goes for Rinnegan abilities. Feel free to lay down some groundwork for anything that you want added in. --Ref3rence (talk) 20:46, 3 July 2019 (MDT)

I was thinking about the kamui because you know its well the kamui and the kotamakatsu I dont think I spelt that right but still its shisui's eye

Also I don't really understand saving throws so I wanted to ask what is a successful throw like what the sharingan says the rounds plus the rest but I am talking about the great fireball says if you make a saving throw to take half damage so I was wondering how it works?

If you are targeted by an effect that calls for a saving throw, such as a blue dragon’s fire breath or great fireball, you have to roll a d20 and add the ability modifier listed (add dex for a Dexterity saving throw). If the result is higher than the DC, you take half damage. Otherwise, you take full damage. --Ref3rence (talk) 21:32, 3 July 2019 (MDT)

And what about the chakra natures do you get to choose them I saw that you changed that because I saw it have number for you to roll so I wanted to ask you that too?

I was asking about the DC like how do you know that you got it higher than that?

You do choose your chakra natures. If you’re asking how high the DC is, your jutsu save DC is 8+Intelligence modifer+your Proficiency bonus. Otherwise, the person targeting you with it should tell you. --Ref3rence (talk) 04:52, 4 July 2019 (MDT)

That is what I was asking thanks and about the ice style do u do just that damage or individual for the needles?

You only deal the listed damage once. --Ref3rence (talk) 08:07, 4 July 2019 (MDT)

Okay thats what I thought thanks again.

When you roll to see if you hit in dnd like hand to hand what do you normally add like your strength modifier or what?

Unarmed strikes can use either your Strength or Dexterity modifier. --Ref3rence (talk) 13:01, 4 July 2019 (MDT)

If I am a jinchuuriki and I choose to be a a sorcerer or a monk will I still get the benefits the jinchuuriki subclass?

I have 2 more questions well sorta 3 but first have you played the naruto games more of naruto to boruto shinobi striker? Second if so can you add the flying thunder god 1st level from the naruto to boruto shinobi striker and just add flying thunder god in general?

Can you add genjutsu that doesn't require the sharingan?

Can u also add the Almighty Push?

Discussion[edit]

I wonder if they plan to create new paths, my table is playing Naruto RPG and we are using everything you have.

I'd like to see something for Gaara-like abilities. Not just the Magnetic Jutsu. I like the Terror of The Sand for 3.5, but my groups don't normally play 3.5. D: Jinchuriki too. (I hope I did this correctly. This is the first time I've "edited" anything on this site)--Sama Gaara (talk) 00:22, ~4 August 2018 (MDT)

I'm DM'ing someone who's playing this class and I am currently working on the Rinnnegan Paths with the class for end game stuff. It's kind of broken right now but I feel like the Rinnegan should be? Also seeing the different Jinchuriki's would be cool along with the rest of the Kekkei Genkai's like the Ice Release.(Dicvodka (talk) 20:49, 18 August 2018 (MDT))

I would love to see that in here as well. The Rinnegan would be a great addition to this. I agree that it should be more powerful, as well. My current DM is "balancing" my Gaara-like character. It's upsetting, for lack of a better word. (Don't really know the rules for profanity.) I understand that I'm hitting harder than most, but I've purposely made it to where I'm not skilled with anything BUT combat. (Young Gaara) So, "balancing" it to the other classes, that are capable of doing things outside of combat (i.e. Crafting, diplomatic solutions, etc.), actually hurts this creation, in my opinion. That all being said, we are trying to figure out a way to implement the Jinchuriki side of this class. We have half-demon somewhat down, but not full Shukaku. --Sama Gaara (talk) 00:22, 21 August 2018 (MDT)

In reply, I have no intention of adding tailed beast or the rinnegan as of yet, keep in mind I am working on this, but i won't update it unless i have playtested it myself.

Sama Gaara, Unfortunately your DM is in the right. D&D is a multiplayer game, if one person is too strong it ruins it for others, this is the exact reason overpowered abilities and things of the like are being removed or revised. Example: If someone were allowed to become the Shukaku, that is a gargantuan creature capable of dealing mass damage on par with he 8th gate, in which is a late game ability that kills the player character;Balancing that to make other characters feel they aren't useless is not an easy task.

Dicvodka, Your request is in the works, Ice style will be a thing eventually, however that is not at the top of the to do list.

I'm sorry if this is not he best news; Though i greatly appreciate the interest in this class, if you have any input or recommendations please place it in here and i will attempt to make it work to the best of my ability. --Dave the far too busy (talk) 05:20, 14 September 2018 (MDT)

Just wanted to add that I made this whole page into a Homebrewery page for personal use and will keep it updated with anything that you add as the wiki page was getting kinda cluttered and hard to read at some places https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rJmNqE2OdQ Dicvodka (talk) 22:14, 13 September 2018 (MDT)

Thats awesome, thanks.--Dave the far too busy (talk) 05:20, 14 September 2018 (MDT)

Nindo idea: "I will never fail" if you miss an attack roll you get a re-roll, you must accept the re-rolls result. You can use this feature 3x per long rest.


i dont know if this is the place to ask questions as im new to the site. but in regards to the bonus chakra damage die. im interpreting it a couple different ways. if someone can explain it to me. im seeing it either as in addition to the martial die. or the martial die does the chakra type damage. or am i missing it entirely?? a cool thing would be to spend some chakra to add it to a weapon attack.

is it possible that we will be getting any clan base subclasses such like choji's clan or

how much chakra does the mangekyou abilities cost

Mangekyō abilities do not cost chakra. --Ref3rence (talk) 09:13, 17 July 2019 (MDT)

With the transformation jutsu can you turn yourself into weapons

Absolutely, as long as your character has seen or has a general idea of it and it is not magical. --Ref3rence (talk) 16:08, 4 August 2019 (MDT)

Amount of Chakra?[edit]

All jutsu are listed with a chakra cost, but there doesn’t seem to be a list of how much chakra you have. If the chakra column is meant to be this, when are you meant to roll for chakra? Even then, you are limited to, at most, 28 or 13 chakra (depending on whether or not it is your Con mod which should be mentioned), while Night Guy uses 45. --Ref3rence (talk) 07:13, 17 May 2019 (MDT)

Multiple jutsu uses[edit]

I don't know if I'm in the right section, but I wanted to know if one can use some jutsu twice at a certain moment depending on the situation. For instance if I have the feat to make hand signs with one hand, am I able to cast two chidori at the same time? And attack with it just like a two weapon attack? Thanks!

I am 95% certain the only time you can use two jutsu at once is when you have a clone

Substitution[edit]

For the substitution changes, it's not about the Target percieving the substitution, since that's only necessary for the lesser substitution. It's about resources and preparation, and while it's acceptable to have a substitution log/item prepared, it should only be reflected against the amount of opponents. In the source material, no one could figure out a substitution, so it doesn't make sense for that to be a requirement in the game. For transformation and clones, it makes sense, since those are about tricking an opponent. The way it is, it just doesn't fit, and honestly pushes the limits on when this class becomes broken. A lot of what's being called unnecessary is actually what's keeping these features and abilities from being used against the class in arguments of whether it's broken or actually viable with other classes. You're already evading ALL damage from the attack, so getting the chance to do it again is useless, and it makes the lesser substitution even more worthless. This is meant to be a class that has the capability to do great deals of damage, but also use strategy and skill.


I understand your point, but with the way it is worded the shinobi could substitute with anything in their inventory assuming they're carrying enough "generic objects". The best way to translate and balance this for D&D is to make it a wisdom saving throw to see if the target can see past the trickery as soon as it happens. For example:

Shinobi A: Uses substitution after getting hit by a kunai

Shinobi B: Passes the saving throw and realises what happened and is on high alert against this technique. They then throw another Kunai, but this time fully prepared for the foul play.

Shinobi A: Uses substitution and teleports 15 feet behind Shinobi B

Shinobi B: Expected it but can't see them, they're wise enough to check behind them and they see Shinobi A.

or

Shinobi A: Uses substitution after getting hit by a kunai.

Shinobi B: Fails the saving throw and has no idea what happened. Must be a genjutsu. They look around and notice Shinobi A, so they throw another Kunai.

Shinobi A: Uses substitution and teleports 15 feet behind Shinobi B then throws a Kunai.

Shinobi B: Succeeded in the saving throw and realises what happened, but far too late as the Kunai hits them. Or alternatively they still don't realise and attempt to find a way to break out of the genjutsu or run away.

Obviously this is an example of a not very skilled Shinobi. Another one may know what a substitution is but not be perceptive enough to see where the enemy teleported to, or wise enough to figure out their next move. But writing that up makes the ability too wordy, so it's best to leave it to interpretation as long as the mechanics are set. If anything, it could be written as:

"As a reaction, when you are hit by an attack and would take damage, you teleport up to 15 ft in any direction to an unoccupied space. A log or generic object is left in your place. You take no damage from that attack. The creature that attempted to attack you must succeed on a Wisdom Saving throw, on a success it realises the method of your trickery and your next attack following your subsitution against them is at disadvantage; this effect lasts for 24 hours."

or something along those lines.

- Voided Essence, The Void Walker (talk) 16:05, 4 October 2019 (MDT)


See, the problem is that it's always clear that the substitution is at work. Why? Because the actual technique only takes place in the seconds that the user would be hit/dealt damage, unlike the Lesser Substitution, which sounds a lot more like what you've been putting. If you look up the Substitution jutsu, you'll see that it's actual application only takes seconds, and that there's no way to see it coming before it does without expecting someone to substitute, and even that would still allow the jutsu to work. If you put everything that is after "You take no damage from that attack." under Lesser Substitution, the one that actually talks about tricking and confusing the opponent with a premade clone, then it would be fine. It would make a heck of a lot more sense under lesser, and when I first saw that part, I thought it WAS under Lesser. But regular substitution works perfectly as a Once Per Opponent reaction that still works with the source material. And too wordy isn't bad! It's better than not having enough information, and potentially using something wrong until someone who knows what you're using actually does because they put more time into learning about it. This site explains the technique rather simply, while also being very clear about it: https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Body_Replacement_Technique . And yes, it says Body Replacement Technique and not Substitution Jutsu, because the real name is in fact the Body Replacement Technique.


In that case what do you propose that doesn't involve going against your own argument? Since you clearly said how it can't be limited by a person's ability to figure it out since no one can figure it out. If giving the opponent a chance to figure it out (as it is now) shouldn't be done, then why would it be limited to 24 hours in the first place? It's not like it's a high chakra cost ability that only legendary Shinobi can do. And the only limitation mentioned in the wiki page is that it "can only be used in response to harmful attack."

I think it's perfectly fair to give the opponent a wisdom saving throw or become immune instead of straight making them immune, especially since your original fix went completely against your point of "no one can figure it out."

- Voided Essence, The Void Walker (talk) 19:21, 4 October 2019 (MDT)

I propose it stay the way it was. Why? Because the reasoning behind only getting one regular substitution per opponent per battle wasn't story based, it was simply a game mechanic. It wasn't something that needed revising to fit into a D&D campaign, because it's reasoning fit under the category of: "Why you can't do _______ in D&D". Other examples include "Why can't a sorcerer just pick up a longsword and use it normally?" or "Why can't a Barbarian just get mad every 6 minutes and have more Rages in a day?". Believe it or not, players don't always need a story perfect reason, and this is one of the best cases for that. And considering the way it was hadn't been changed as much as other things have, I think most of the editors will agree that it didn't need to be buffed or given a roll with it.


I understand what you're saying, but I feel limiting the substitution to 24 hours after a single use is too restricting. The examples you gave each have their own ways to make do, and other classes regen their abilities per short or long rest. As for your argument on the other editors, it seems to me like no one other than you decided the new change was too powerful while the other editors did or said nothing on the subject. A 3rd party actually made the edit, I'm just here to defend it as a good decision. The reason there was no change prior to that may be because no one else could think of one or because no one thought it needed a change, in the end neither of us know so making assumptions will get us nowhere.

- Voided Essence, The Void Walker (talk) 17:22, 5 October 2019 (MDT)

Okay, just so we're clear, I am also NOT in favor of a 24 hour wait period. When I said the way it was, I meant back to being Once per Opponent Per Battle. That may not be as clear as I think it is, so I will explain. Once Per Opponent Per Battle as I read it, explain it, and use it, means that every battle, you may use the substitution technique against each opponent once.

As in, to use your example earlier ((Just not as well formatted)) *Shinobi A* uses substitution after *Bandit A* attacks them. *Shinobi A* cannot use Substitution as a reaction to *Bandit A* again in this fight because of the limit. *Bandit B* attacks *Shinobi A*, and *Shinobi A* uses substitution. *Shinobi A* is now unable to use substitution against *Bandit B* in this fight. *Troll A* joins the fight, attacking *Shinobi A*, who uses a substitution. *Troll A* escapes with *Bandit A*. The fight ends, but *Bandit B* is dead. In the next fight, *Shinobi A* can use Substitution against *Bandit A* and *Troll A*. *Bandit A* dies, but *Troll A* continues to fight, and having already used substitution on an attack from *Troll A*, *Shinobi A* cannot use substitution for the rest of the fight. In other words, the ratio is ((1:1):3):1 at the start, then ((1:1):2):1, and then ((1:1):1):1. In other, Other words, it's ((Substitution:Enemy):Number of Enemies):Battle. That may not make it easier to understand, but it's the only other way I can explain it besides "You get one substitution against each enemy every battle". Actually as of typing that last part, trying to fit it into your example may have just complicated it. Either way, that's the limit I was speaking of, not a 24 hour limit that really doesn't make sense. But I would like to bring attention to my thought that you should put the limit you were arguing for under Lesser Substitution, because it works a lot better there and actually sounds like a great way to make Lesser Substitution more fleshed out as a jutsu. -ReaperSRS


Yes, sorry that's what I meant, that it shouldn't be limited to 24 hours per target. Here are a couple rework ideas however, let me know what you think:

Substitution

Cost: 3 chakra

As a reaction, when you are hit by an attack and would take damage, you can lower the damage by 1d10 + Dexterity + your Shinobi Level and teleport up to 15 ft in any direction to an unoccupied space during which you take the Hide action. A log or generic object is left in your place and you take any left-over damage from that attack.


Lesser Substitution

Cost: 3 chakra

Range: 20 feet

As a bonus action, you create an image of a creature in a place it was within 1 minute. The image acts as if is was still there. You can use the clone jutsu to make a projection of yourself, doing exactly the same as you were while disappearing up 60 ft away during which you take the Hide action. This is used mainly to confuse would be assailants. The clone disappears within 15 minutes of the jutsu’s use or until you dismiss it.


These reworks make the Substitution jutsu not as powerful (since you can still take damage assuming you didn't absorb it all) as it is based on the Monk's Deflect Missiles (the difference being that instead of grabbing the attack, you teleport away and take the hide action. This is why it costs 3 Chakra points instead of being free like the Monk's ability. I lowered it to 3 instead of 6 since it doesn't guarantee immunity to damage. For this reason, the 24 hour period is no longer necessary.) while making the Lesser Substitution a bit more powerful with a more strategic use for it. I haven't changed the Charka Cost as it is essentially the as Substitution, except less used as a counter and more as a way to retreat or attack from a better position. - Voided Essence, The Void Walker (talk) 07:27, 7 October 2019 (MDT)

I am highly in agreement with these reworks. I would like to ask if it would be okay to give it an option to, at a higher level or levels, either increase the amount of die to roll/up the size of the die, or add an option to spend more chakra on making it negate all damage while causing disadvantage on the users next attack. I think that will make it easier to integrate the changes while also making sure this valuable asset of the shinobi stays useful at higher levels. -ReaperSRS


Increasing the amount of dice according to Chakra cost is probably the best way to go. I went with a single chakra point per additional dice, let me know if you want a different cost.

Substitution

Cost: 3+ chakra

As a reaction, when you are hit by an attack and would take damage, you can lower the damage by 1d10 + your Dexterity + your Shinobi Level and teleport up to 15 ft in any direction to an unoccupied space during which you take the Hide action. A log or generic object is left in your place and you take any left-over damage from that attack. You can add an additional 1d10 per chakra point spent over the initial cost.

- Voided Essence, The Void Walker (talk) 07:27, 7 October 2019 (MDT)

Yep, that's perfect. Much better balance between cost and effect, and it won't feel like it's being wasted if used on only one attack. -ReaperSRS

Alright, in that case I'll add that immediately to the class.

- Voided Essence, The Void Walker (talk) 16:21, 8 October 2019 (MDT)

So I added the Genjutsu part earlier, and while some of the edits I agree with format wise, the edits take away from what the genjutsu style really is when not Dojutsu based. I would like to add back in that it only has two versions, with different effects, because some genjutsu are simply used to trick someone, and some are specifically meant to paralyze. Considering the description of the path specifically calls on Genjutsu, I feel like limiting it so much takes away from what is honestly an entire style of jutsu. I also made the chakra cost higher than 7 and 10 because it is a level 10 ability and it made sense for the potency. A player using an ability that has the chance to secure a quick win on an enemy should cost more than the level 7 ability before it, especially given that in the show Genjutsu costs a lot of chakra to keep up. I added the genjutsu because it allows for someone with the Path of Mind to act as someone with those abilities would in the source material.


My issue with that is that the paralyzed condition is objective more powerful than the other conditions. I suppose one way to get around it would be to make different conditions cost different amounts of chakra based on its mechanical strength.

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