Talk:5e Races

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Something for the Races[edit]

Can we implement a voting system for the 5e races page? Balanced/imbalanced?

Is it possible to have the page state any editing templates, like needsbalance or WIP, which have been added to a page? Then people can browse through and, at a glance, know whether something is unfinished or dysfunctional.

I'd highly appreciate that. I have with most races here the feeling that the balance is hugely off and people just try to throw out the most OP shit they can think of... I'd love to allow players choices from here but it is just impossible because of balance reasons in most cases... I know it is not possible to perfectly balance things but with most of what I've seen so far it is just blatant that balance was never a consideration... (things like +5AC in a bounded system e.g.)

They already do. Every page with an editing template is sorted out into a separate list called Incomplete Races, near the bottom of the page. The problem is that, in order for a page to show up there, someone has to take the time to read the race, identify it as problematic, and apply the appropriate templates to it. The community here is not large enough or active enough to field dedicated reviewers, so it is left up to editors to self-regulate for the most part. Thus far, it has not been working very well. Most users never make an account, post their ludicrous ideas without any knowledge that the site has quality standards or regulation tools, and then bail. I would request that you continue your interest in this community's content, and whenever you see imbalanced or incomplete material, flag it with appropriate templates for attention. We need more active users who care about the quality of the content on this site. In short, we need people like you. This is a wiki, a community project, not a public service. If you see a problem, it is up to you to join in and do something about it. The other active users are already trying, were just outnumberd. --Kydo (talk) 11:34, 23 August 2016 (MDT)

Problems creating a race...[edit]

'ello. anonymous here... i'm having problems making a race. here's the link to the page. [[1]] certain things aren't working out as they should. I've even checked out other race templates to see how to do it, and those results lead to nothing. can someone help?

It looks like you're trying to use an invalid html markup in the article? If you're trying to put in line breaks, just hit enter twice...
Like this. --Kydo (talk) 18:01, 16 December 2018 (MST)

a'right. thanks for the help. it's my first time making a race in this wiki.


Do we know the size rules for races? --Green Dragon (talk) 01:41, 19 August 2014 (MDT)

Yes. Tiny creatures take up 2½² ft., small and medium creatures take up 5² ft., large creatures take up 10² ft., huge creatures take up 15² ft., and gargantuan creatures take up 20² ft. It seems safe to assume the scale continues on in that fashion, increasing by 5² ft. per size class. A creature can move through the space of another creature that is at least two size classes larger than itself, but cannot end there turn there. (Which is contradicted by another ruling which says you cannot move through an enemy's space, but can move through an ally's space.) A creature with appropriate anatomy which is at least one size larger than yourself can be used as a steed. A creature can squeeze through a space one size smaller than itself at a cost as though it were difficult terrain. I think I got it all?--Kydo (talk) 22:32, 11 October 2014 (MDT)
Oops, there's more! A small creature has disadvantage on attack rolls using weapons with the "heavy" tag. Size apparently has no impact on stealth, sneaking, hiding, or someone's ability to find you.--Kydo (talk) 22:44, 11 October 2014 (MDT)
I also note that most Large (and larger) creatures only have a 5 ft. reach for their attacks, which is a change from previous editions. The exception seems to be monsters with long necks. I still think we should be very cautious with Large PC races, per the lessons learned in 4e. Marasmusine (talk) 01:28, 12 October 2014 (MDT)

Display Parameters[edit]

I am trying to but a large category but somehow can't, can any one help? Azernath (talk) 15:33, 24 January 2015 (MST)
Have you tried adding this to Template:5e Racial Traits, or where are you going to grab this information from? --Green Dragon (talk) 12:14, 25 January 2015 (MST)

no, i tried to put a race as large but it did not came up on the Races size table. Azernath (talk) 16:57, 25 January 2015 (MST)

I've added the Large section now. Marasmusine (talk) 01:30, 26 January 2015 (MST)


I suggest we add a "Racial Relations" section to the race template, similar to the sidebar found on each race in the PHB. That would keep it separate from the more general fluff. It would also encourage more comprehensive consideration of a race's place in the world in relation to the other races out there.--Kydo (talk) 09:06, 18 January 2015 (MST)

Ok I think someone misunderstood me. I meant, like, sociopolitical, cultural, philosophical, or simple racist stereotype racial relations. Each race in the PHB has a section describing what they think of the other prime races. User:Kydo|Kydo]] (talk) 01:38, 26 January 2015 (MST)

Good idea. Is there a way to change the standard race template to accommodate that?

--AngelsAndAarakocra (talk) 13:38, 17 June 2017 (UTC)


How do you add the summaries of the races visible on the main Race page?

A problem presented by the Homebrew / races page is unless you know eactly what you are looking for, you would have to easter egg search. Ex. the Bullywug entry does not list any association to Toads & Frogs in the summery or even the main entry, with the exception of "Amphibious: You can breathe air and water. Speak with Frogs and Toads. You can communicate simple concepts to frogs and toads when speaking in Bullywug." Arles 5:00 PM Wednesday 15 July 2015

Use the |summary= field in the 5e Racial Traits template.
Yes it would be helpful if people wrote summaries that include useful keywords, but that's difficult to enforce. Marasmusine (talk) 07:55, 16 July 2015 (MDT)

Demonkin shouldn't be here[edit]

It's an extremely badly translated 4e race. Need a looot of cleaning up. I mean, the overall attribute bonuses are +8!

Where are these races coming from?[edit]

I had a player character refer me to this article recently but I can't find any reference at which source material these races were taken from. I noticed the category homebrew; are many of these races not official and are instead products of this wiki? Jcure (talk) 09:26, 25 October 2015 (MDT)

All 5th edition content on this wiki is homebrew! Marasmusine (talk) 10:07, 25 October 2015 (MDT)
Speaking of... Since becoming active here, I have been approached by multiple players and GMs, some of whom I've never met, to be informed that they despise this website. The primary reason given is that most people feel that we do a piss-poor job at informing users and browsers that the content used here is all unofficial, and it creates bad feelings at the table when a player comes in with something made from this website and the DM says no based on that, or when a player feels cheated when a DM uses unofficial content against them. Although most of the hobby doesn't even use official content as a rule, there is a significant portion, especially among 5e players, who use only official content. --Kydo (talk) 10:53, 25 October 2015 (MDT)
I don't mean to be rude, but... it does say "user-generated, homebrew pages" right there under the logo. --SpectralTime (talk) 12:30, 25 October 2015 (MDT)
With so little materials in the somewhat new 5e and between the unearthed arcane stuff and the one book that is coming which most likely have only the unearthed arcane stuff stuffed into it. Can you blame us for trying to make new stuff? I agree that one might get confused with it and think it is official, but it should go with out saying that all that we do is unofficial and most likely unopposed by the Wizards of The Coast because if they did want us to stop, they would have told us a long time ago. Azernath (talk) 13:04, 25 October 2015 (MDT)
The problem isn't WotC. The problem isn't us making homebrew material either, both the DMG and PHB acknowledge and encourage it. The problem is DMs and players who are intolerant of unofficial content playing in the same group as newbies who don't know any better or unattentive people who don't get it. They search "D&D wiki" hoping to avoid the 60$ price tag, and this website is the first result. Then a fight breaks out when people debate the legitimacy of the material. --Kydo (talk) 13:48, 25 October 2015 (MDT)
Yeah, but it would help if we had some sort of rating system for races similar to the ones on campaign settings (though that would be a monster of a job). Some races are quite well made, others (like mine) seem to be mismatches of other races to add flavor to a campaign, and then we have fan characters... I'm not knocking all anime/video game characters but people tend to get a bit carried away on those. I think the problem isn't mean DMs saying "THERE ARE NO DRYADS IN EBBERON CAUSE THE BOOK DOESNT MENTION THEM!!" it's more players wanting to play as a badass ninja or demigod and forgetting they have to start at level 1. --Balthazar (talk) 12:26, 10 June 2016 (MDT)


Technically, subraces are just a highly regular recurring racial trait. We have seen official races which lack subraces. I would like to build a race which toys with the way subraces work. For example, a race which provides +1 to an ability while the subraces provide +2. Or a race where they have two subrace choices, like "ethnicity" and "nationality" or some such. I'm having trouble thinking up a justification for it though. Any ideas? --Kydo (talk) 10:42, 17 March 2016 (MDT)


I just made a new race (Hircus if you are wondering) and I would like some feedback on how overpowered (or underpowered but I'm waging on the side of overpowered) is their some thing i can use for this?

Remove the Wall Of Fire ability at 9th level and It's ok i think. Also, fix the spellcasting so they don't know the spells (keep the cantrip), but they can still cast them once before resting. -AngelsAndAarakocra

SRD Races Incomplete[edit]

The SRD races are currently appearing in the incomplete races section. Is that supposed to be happening? --Kydo (talk) 11:39, 23 August 2016 (MDT)

No they shouldn't, as the SRD pages don't have the User category! I've tried previewing the page with |notcategory=SRD in the filter, but they are still displayed. So that's weird. Marasmusine (talk) 11:58, 23 August 2016 (MDT)

Two new wiki-templates for races[edit]

I have made Template:5e Darkvision and Template:heightweight and added them to the preload.

The first is simply the full text for the "standard" 60 foot darkvision, as I got sick of typing it in over and over. The second removes the ugly table code from the preload for random height and weight, so hopefully easier for editors to fill in. Marasmusine (talk) 05:41, 15 September 2016 (MDT)

Damn good ideas. --Kydo (talk) 06:14, 15 September 2016 (MDT)
Perhaps putting the full text for the Darkvision trait into preload itself would work (As an example of a trait). Otherwise I think people might be confused about if they need to put in text or templates in traits. Berzul (talk) 06:20, 15 September 2016 (MDT)
I'll see what the consensus is, the coder in me revolts at the idea of having full duplicate text everywhere :) Marasmusine (talk) 13:10, 15 September 2016 (MDT)

How does a race enter the big table of races?[edit]

I just finished making a race and for some reason, it's hanging out on the bottom of the table. Did I do something wrong or do I need to wait for an approval before it goes onto the big table? --Psyga315 (talk) 21:40, 25 October 2016 (MDT)

Hello, it's because you replaced the User category with your own username. I've fixed it for you. Marasmusine (talk) 02:13, 26 October 2016 (MDT)
Oooooooh... Derp. I thought User meant "put your name here"... My bad. Psyga315 (talk) 08:02, 26 October 2016 (MDT)
Generally, anything you're supposed to replace will be surrounded by <!--comment commands-->. --Kydo (talk) 11:18, 26 October 2016 (MDT)

Race progression idea[edit]

I had an idea for a thing for races, but might need some help with the follow-through.

The PHB's tiefling introduced the idea of granting the player new racial features as they gain levels (in this case, spells at 2nd and 5th level); and there are damage-based racial features that increase (dragonborn's breath)

I have seen homebrew races that pile on a lot of these levelled racial features. My attitude to these has been, well, it may as well be a class unto its own (which is what I did at Angel (5e Race). When you gain a level, you can take a class level or a race level.

What I'm thinking of trying is, a race gives you something each time you gain a level. It musn't be complex (or you character sheet will end up looking like a 4th edition PC), and it musn't be powerful (this is not a gestalt). It doesn't include hit dice, and doesn't contribute towards total levels or proficiency bonus. The table does include existing levelled stuff like the tiefling's spells and the dragonborn's damage increase, but otherwise these are tiny bonuses that build on what the race already has. I think this will make race/class combos more interesting and perhaps synergize in fun ways.

It also means that for people making homebrew races trying to pack too much in, they can have section that says "if you are using the race progression variant rule, you can use this table", and some of the features can be moved to it, without having me whine at them that they should make a racial class.

I would like to do a table for the PHB races covering, say, the first 10 levels. There might be certain levels where all race get the same kind of bonuses (think 3rd edition bloodlines).

Off the top of my head, examples might be a +1 HP bonus for a mountain dwarf, or an extra kind of invention for a rock gnome. Marasmusine (talk) 05:11, 18 December 2016 (MST)

5e Races Organization[edit]

I think the master table of races on this page is somewhat cumbersome from the perspective of users coming here looking for interesting races to play, could we perhaps filter out April Fools content like McChicken (5e Race) and Chicken (5e Race) and derivative works (like the League of Legends, Zelda and Dragonball Z races) into separate sections from the main table similar to how incomplete races are handled? This would help highlight the more serious and original races that we have available.

Any thoughts?

I'd normally be quite gung-ho about implementing such a thing myself but am well aware I do not have permission to edit this page.

--Supersaix (talk) 12:04, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

April Fools pages should be separated. This has already been discussed, but no one has gotten around to implementing this. If anyone can take the initiative to change this for all list pages (5e, 4e, and 3.5e if possible), then give me a heads up and I will grant you temporary admin rights to do this. Or, if another admin is reading this and feels the urge then by all means lets start! --Green Dragon (talk) 16:56, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
I would be willing to take this on, though would prefer to commit to approaching just the 5e list pages as a pilot project and seeing where I go from there. Additionally, any input on the concept of separating content that is based on existing works from original concepts would be appreciated, though I'm sure separating the April Fools content will be enough of a task on its own. --Supersaix (talk) 01:20, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I have granted you admin rights for the duration of this task. Take a stab at the 5e pages, and all the questions that you end up having just ask me on my user talk page. Good luck! --Green Dragon (talk) 10:49, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Since you have not been active lately, I've gone ahead and removed your temporary admin rights. If anyone else wants to take up this task, or when you want to continue, just give me a heads up. --Green Dragon (talk) 15:34, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
It seems this still needs doing. I would be interested in undertaking this task, if you feel I am up to it. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 09:36, 16 July 2017 (MDT)
Ok, I will grant you temporary admin rights to complete this. Marasmusine undid the edit split on this page, I assume because the edit split the page further than intended. If we need to discuss this further then we may do so, but based off the current discussion please start seperating April Fools pages from the standard lists. --Green Dragon (talk) 10:42, 17 July 2017 (MDT)
Yes, sorry, I didn't realize it had been agreed on, and it's not something we've done on other indexes. I don't oppose the idea. Marasmusine (talk) 10:54, 17 July 2017 (MDT)

More Organized[edit]

The Number of 5e Races has grown rapidly, in an effort to make loading pages smoother and to help with organization I have attempted to rework this page. No worries though if you are heavily attached to current layout, it will be moved to Previous 5e Race Page and still be linked too here. Ps I need an admin to help me make this happen. The planned revision would resemble the 5e Spells page and appear like this User:Meep/5e_Races_New --Meep (talk) 21:29, 15 February 2018 (MST)

I like this, but you first need to seperate the races with a maintenance template from those without a maintenance template on each of the pages. I would use the first format already on 5e Races. --Green Dragon (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2018 (MST)
I already have it set up that all the pages don't include pages with maintenance templates and they are all instead placed on one page of their own. If you think this should be done differently they could be added to the end of the full list of races --Meep (talk) 23:37, 15 February 2018 (MST)
Almost all of the pages now include and Incomplete Race section at the bottom that is collapsed by default with exception of the 5e Races by Type, 5e Races by Size (which are more of a list of list), and obviously the two pages that are entirely devoted to them Work in Progress 5e Races & Incomplete 5e Races. --Meep (talk) 04:27, 17 February 2018 (MST)
I merged the two pages together, and I feel that this is successful. Thanks a lot Meep. --Green Dragon (talk) 07:09, 18 February 2018 (MST)
New 5e Race Page looks great. I really like the extra categories. Nice Job Meep BigShotFancyMan (talk) 10:42, 20 February 2018 (MST)

I like the new format alot, however, as per before, the April Fools races should be at the end of the section and marked as such regardless of the displayed catagory. This was agreed on previously and also I'd rather not see the DuelSoulBlade Shadow Vampelf (5e Race) most then I have to. --ConcealedLight (talk) 07:51, 3 March 2018 (MST)

I can do that, It shouldn't be much trouble --Meep (talk) 17:42, 3 March 2018 (MST)
I thought Category:Composite Characters would be a good addition to the page but couldn’t quite decide where would be best. If somewhere not on this page is more appropriate kudos for that too. My goal is to put some light on this design concept, and see if others use it or find pages like it useful. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 15:30, 11 June 2018 (MDT)

I also like the new format but humanoid races needs cleaned up, i personally think it should be races that are elusively humanoids otherwise you have lots of other races bogging it down. For example, I was looking through other race categories but when to humanoid to find more options for a character, but when I got there I kept seeing races I had already gone over. Along with others I had seen in other categories that I was avoiding for this character. It was like I had hit the full list and was looking at everything. This needs to be changed somehow as it really slowed down my process as I had to weed out the ones that shouldn't be there.--Lord Survival (talk) 12:01, 10 September 2020 (MDT)

The category exists: 5e Humanoid Races. Is there an issue with this listing? Red Leg Leo (talk) 12:39, 10 September 2020 (MDT)

Musicus Meter Concerns[edit]

I know the Musicus Meter isn't a mandatory thing, but after calculating the score for a race I made (link to the race, Leviathorin) I've become really worried. Here's what I got:

ABI: 3

Amphibious: 0.5

Damage Resistance: 0.5

Darkvision: 0.5

Environmental Adaptation: 0.5

Powerful Build: 0.5

Natural Weapon(s): 1 (technically there's two natural weapons, the claws AND teeth)

Skill Proficiency: 0.5

Swim Speed (30 feet): 1.5

Total: 8.5

This is higher than Dwarves, who score an 8. It doesn't even include the second part of their Natural Electricity trait, which lets them deal an additional die of lightning damage on a successful melee attack, and yet it's still too high. I'm really scared that my race might be too strong. What should I do? Are there some traits I should modify or remove? Is there something I missed while calculating this? Should I put a "needsbalance" stub on here while I figure this out? Should I be using Maramusine's meter instead? Please help me. --Chica56 (talk)

Looking at the race, I do not believe it is really overpowered mainly due to the fact that a decent number of race's traits are niche(Claws and Jaws, all traits related to swimming, and sometimes Powerful Build) and do not substantially increase the race's power despite what the Musicus Meter states. The race is still strong, but comparable in strength to the Triton especially since it has received errata to give the race darkvision.--Blobby383b (talk) 19:39, 2 October 2020 (MDT)
I suppose you're right. I was a bit iffy on whether or not I should pay much attention to that score, but you bring up a good point about certain traits being situational. This helped calm my nerves a little. Thank you. --Chica56 (talk)

Humanoid Split[edit]

As I was recently making a new race, I got kinda curious. So, I decided to try and check the humanoid category. My connection is pretty solid, but it still took eight or so seconds to load(which will be significantly worse on other internet speeds), and the list is massive. It's real hard to find a race that doesn't fit into one of the specified creature categories.

Have we considered splitting the humanoid section up more? --SwankyPants (talk) 07:53, 7 July 2021 (MDT)

That is the whole point of splitting up the race page. Since you seem to mean that you have though about this, and have an answer, how would you consider splitting up this page? --Green Dragon (talk) 15:17, 7 July 2021 (MDT)
I genuinely have no idea. Could split it by score increase? Pretty awful idea but that's the best I've got. --SwankyPants (talk) 15:38, 7 July 2021 (MDT)
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