Talk:Igor (5e Race)
From D&D Wiki
Featured Article Nomination
I feel a bit awkward nominating this, since it is my own page after all, but since Green Dragon did encourage it, I suppose I'll go ahead. My reason for nominating this is simple; I looked at it one day after looking at other featured articles, and realized it objectively shared a lot of common traits with those articles. I'm a huge fan of Discworld, so I ended up putting a large amount of effort into it. Umm... anyway, tell me what y'all think. --ZarHakkar (talk) 16:34, 5 June 2020 (MDT)
- I'll second that nomination, and for the same reason. This is, to my mind, a shining example of what a homebrew race ought to be. The vision of what this race is and what it does is incredibly clear, not to mention concise. I'll be returning to this page in the future to use it as an example for any homebrew races I may devise. --Nuke The Earth (talk) 16:46, 5 June 2020 (MDT)
- Support. The race fluff is well-done and justifies the traits, particularly the one which would otherwise seem almost like a class feature. It also have unique traits, which I think is what is usually looked for in Featured Articles. It also seems balanced. Despite the +4 ASI, it has no darkvision, and its traits are flavorful, with reasonable restraints and some niche use. The only reservation I have is that I think some of the Hand Me Downs section belongs in the physical description due to describing them with scars. --Yanied (talk) 19:28, 5 June 2020 (MDT)
- Support. I think overall, the race is well-done and interesting. Also, it's hard to dislike anything Discworld. --PJammaz (talk) 15:49, 7 June 2020 (MDT)
- Comment. Could we see some subraces? Like stealth (disguise like a deceased), plague (transplants for bad causes), noble (transplants for good causes)? Just want to give this a little more flavor then the base igor here. --Green Dragon (talk) 13:24, 19 October 2020 (MDT)
- While I see the sentiment, and do indeed think such subraces could be cool and interesting, I feel that they fall outside the bounds of what was intended when I created this race, which was to faithfully adapt the Igors from Terry Pratchett's Discworld into Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition. The novels themselves do not provide any examples of distinction between different "subtypes" of Igors. except for perhaps minor differences in urban and rural Igors, which I would not say merit enough distinction to justify enforcing them mechanically. That said, not all races have or require subraces to be well-written, and I am of the firm belief that it is just as easy to over-write and over-complicate things as it is to underwrite them, and a good hallmark of writing, especially when it comes to rulesets for tabletop game systems, is to convey what is necessary information as simply and concisely as possible. A race doesn't need pages of lore, it just needs enough for the DM and player to get the gist after maybe a minute of reading and be creative with the open ends. That said for the second time, I will say I have been entertaining the idea of expanding upon the Igor's traits, particularly their Master of Flesh ability, via racial feats. Hopefully, that should scratch the flavor itch that subraces were desired for, while also adding a tiny bit more of mechanical flavor and optional distinction. --ZarHakkar (talk) 06:38, 25 March 2021 (MDT)
Addressing Capitalization/Wording Issues
While it is a standard 5e practice to not capitalize the name of a race when it appears in a sentence (for example, "the human" vs. "the Human" or "the drow" vs. "the Drow"), I request an exception to be made for this race. In the source material of Discworld, Igors are always referred to with a capital I, as opposed to the dwarves or trolls that also appear in that setting. The reason for this is because Igors are less of a "race" in the Discworld setting, and more of a "family". The Igor family, if you will. Same as the Smith family, or the Poe family. This family-like nature carries over to the D&D-adapted counterpart I've created, and thus every instance of Igor in the page is capitalized like it should be; referring to a family.
Since, yes, Igors are technically humans, I did entertain the idea of simply adapting them as a variant of the human race at one point, but then I decided it would be easier to represent them in D&D 5e as a standalone race. If anyone believes this is in err, let me know.
Additionally, with the wording issues... those are primarily an attempt to channel the writing style of the late Terry Pratchett. I may have slightly overextended myself with attempting to fit all the details into paragraphs that flowed nicely, yet still having that haberdash sprinkle of humor put in. --ZarHakkar (talk) 18:49, 30 October 2018 (MDT)
- Beings the novel capitalizes the race, I could see this as being appropriate to maintain canon. It doesn't break anything either to keep the flavor. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 19:08, 30 October 2018 (MDT)
Master of Flesh
- >This page is incomplete and/or lacking flavor. Reason: Why 6 minutes? You should be using the correct narrative durations. Surely the intent of Master of Flesh is not to allow for something like putting on a bugbears arm and getting their reach or an aarocockra's wings and getting flight? This should be clarified.
Why not 6 minutes? It's not instantaneous, but it doesn't take an exorbitant amount of time either. Although, to be fair, if it could be rewritten better with the correct narrative declarations, I'm all up for it ...if I could remember the relevant phrasing.
As for the intent? The intent of the feature is to convey what Igors in Discworld are most well known and used for: reattaching severed body parts and putting in/on new ones if the old ones have mysteriously disappeared. Although, it hasn't been unheard of for certain Igors to get a little more... creative with their skills... --ZarHakkar (talk) 18:49, 30 October 2018 (MDT)
- "Why not 6 minutes?" because it isn't standard. it doesn't follow precedent. I think we understand what you said about reattaching body parts but what isn't conveyed or communicated and clarification has been asked for is the limit of these attachments. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 19:14, 30 October 2018 (MDT)
- For the 6 minutes thing: Like I said, I'd like to put it in a better way, but the specific wording evades me. Do you have any suggestions?
- As for the clarification... It's something I'm hesitant to provide. I mean, it's not like you couldn't attach a bugbear arm or aarocockra wings to somebody... Igors in the Discworld books have been shown to perform much more impressive feats than that with a needle and thread. One in particular was very lonely, so he decided to build himself a dog. Out of scraps. (Insert Tony Stark in a cave joke here)
- So yeah, I'm hesitant to say that you can't, because it's technically possible for an Igor to do so. But I'm also hesitant to say you can and provide rules for that, because it 1- feels like over-complicating things and 2- writing rules for it paves the way for it to be the "normal" playstyle of an Igor player, when it should in fact be something that should be fairly rare and require creativity.
- (As an aside, it's a shame there's no hard "social" mechanics in D&D 5e like there are in Shadowrun. If a PC shows up looking like a freak with bugbear arms and aarocockra wings it's solely up to the DM if they're gonna suffer any penalties for persuasion checks or if, say, the townsfolk are gonna lynch them or not. That would be a great way to reduce the rate at which the more troublesome applications of the ability are utilized.)
- Also, to end my paragraph, I'd like to let people know that this isn't going to be an argument like the freaking vihar thing all over again. I'm extremely open to being convinced of a better way to go about this, and I will gladly put in the effort to rewrite the ability in whatever way is needed in order to make it better. All I ask is that you understand where I'm coming from. --ZarHakkar (talk) 22:55, 30 October 2018 (MDT)