Talk:Overlord (5e Class)
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Hi there 188.8.131.52, my name is Azernath. I am the creator of the Overlord Class, and I was hoping if you can create a user ID here in the Wiki so we can talk easier because I like what you did with the Overlord and would like to talk to you even more about the class. Call me one this user name when you create your user ID. Azernath (talk) 10:01, 26 October 2015 (MDT)
Just to point things out, this is not the overlord from the overlord video game. It should take inspiration from that character, but it also should feel like a different experience. Azernath (talk) 14:50, 26 October 2015 (MDT)
Ability Improvment Overkill
I like the Overlord class so far, but I think that the Ability Improvement thing is a bit too crazy. If you reach level 19, you increase all of your stats by 16! So I think it should be a bit more mild like at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 17th level so it only increases by half as much. -Aldwynadain
- I agree, but what about the rest of the abilities? They do work very good, but it does make the Overlord over powered.
- P.S. Remove the extra bonus feats because it is not necessary. Azernath (talk) 11:06, 26 October 2015 (MDT)
- I guess the Overlord could only lose to a fighter or mage of the same level if he is in terrible circumstances or makes a menagerie of awful rolls, with that said, I think that the Overlord is more of a class designed for an NPC villain or a "one-man-campaign". If necessary, a DM can choose what to adjust about the class when one of their PCs wants to use it. -Aldwynadain
The terror class feature says "You can also perform one of the following as an action.", then presents two sub-features: terror points and terror ability. Neither of these are actions. Is it actually referring to iron gauntlet and strike fear? Iron gauntlet says it uses a bonus action. Marasmusine (talk) 13:04, 26 October 2015 (MDT)
- How about you spend a type of action and also spend Terror points with it? For example, you must spend a bonus action and 1 Terror point to make a melee attack using your gantlet as a weapon. It should limit how an overlord uses his ability and how many times he can spend terror point in a single turn. However, some abilities might need you as an overlord to only spend terror point to use them, these abilities should be used between rests. Azernath (talk) 14:50, 26 October 2015 (MDT)
You seem to have an infinite heal loop. Summon a Minion (use a terror point) sacrifice it, regain a terror point.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
"You may use an action and a terror point to summon a minion."
"You may use an bonus action to pick up a minion under your control and kill it instantly to regain twice of it's remaining hit points and 1 terror point."
each round you could potentially be regaining 18hp (up to 24) by browns. really that's a pretty powerful buff at any level.
Perhaps place a limit on sacrifices per long rest? Or make the Sacrifice instead regain one used HD and give the class a Second Wind tied to a HD being expended?--Modnar (talk) 07:06, 27 January 2016 (MST)
Azernath, I completed the statistics for the minions and included them in the Overlord class. I think it's all completed, but since it's your class, you should probably look over it one last time. -Aldwynadain
- I was hoping to actually make a different type of minions, don't get me wrong I love what you made of them, but I want this class to have something original about this class. So what kind of minions should we instead add? I am thinking of something like a goblin or the brown minion, then a dark overlord might have a wraith or undead skeletons, a hellish overlord might be able some kind of a fiend, and a tyrant can control a type of humanoids.
Azernath 16:21, 29 October 2015 (MDT)
- It seems like a good idea, but I think having all that would make things far too complicated. Sure it's complex enough with any minions, but they're kind of necessary and I tried to make them as simple as possible without screwing up anything. But as for using stuff like goblins and wraiths, it would get a bit hectic and probably betray the original idea of the Overlord. With all that said, it's your class so you have the final say but I'll probably go with the classic minions.
this ability states you ma use one or two terror points but does not clarify what happens when two are spent instead of one. please clarify :)
- Sorry I haven't been on for a while, anyway, about this... I have no idea where I was going with that so I changed it to just one.
Notice about acquiring minions
I don't think that getting new sources to minions should just happen on the spot, I think that perhaps there should be a note on the Overlord class stating that the DM should work earning the minions into his campaign quite like how in the Overlord games, certain minions don't just appear and you have to find the minions hives before being able to summon any. This probably shouldn't be intertwined with the rules and features of the class given that it is more roleplaying than combat or dice checks. There should probably be a note at the end of the class suggesting that the DM work up a dungeon or task the Overlord has to complete before he gets access to more minions. -Aldwynadain
Just a quick notice, you should probably change the armor proficiencies on the Overlord to only have medium and heavy armor because I can't imagine an Overlord donning a leather or fur suit of armor. Anyone can wear light armor, but some, such as the Overlord, wouldn't feel comfortable in it.
G of T: I am going to attempt to restore "T"s addition to this class, because she put ALOT of work into it and allot of us really enjoyed it and have enjoyed the Overlord Battles. That is THE only reason we are restoring it. We thought it was as accurate to the game as it possibly could be, and still be playable. We did find as OVERPOWERD as it seemed, it tends to get weak after 15th level when fighting mobs that just obliterate the minions and leave you fighting for your own life. Not like they can go toe to toe with a dragon, however it was funny to see the minions try and go flying everywhere. They did help...a little. If wisely used, they can put a hurting on the higher level giants...just not kill them with out heavy casualties. If I cannot restore it, well then the work is lost to the ether I suppose.
She did not like her hard work on the sprites removed, she was using them in her campaign. She was running it well. I cant run tiny campaigns all that well. I sorta felt like I was watching some movie or something watching her game...Like a darker version of "The Littles" or something...it was like "Attack of the Smurfs" or "Revenge of the Littles" or something...very interesting...to dark for me however. would be a neat movie to watch however.
Hey, so, really liking the class so far but it feels like the good paths haven't had much effort put into them and I had a couple suggestions for improvements on the Good paths, specifically for the charming path and a little bit on the looting, hopefully I'm not overstepping any bounds, kinda new to this.
Charming Personality: when you take this path at 3rd level, add charm person to your list of spells known. At 6th level, add suggestion as well. At 6th level, you can spend a terror point while casting charm person, if you do, the person charmed does not realize they were charmed when the effect ends.
Silver Tongue: at 6th level, double your proficiency bonus applied to your deception and persuasion checks.
Charming Expertise: at 10th level, When casting a spell that inflicts the charmed condition, you can spend up to 3 terror points to increase your spell save DC by 2/terror point spent. These must be spent As you cast the spell and before they roll their saves. At 20th level, this limit increases from 3 to 5.
Diplomatic Solution: at 16th level once per long rest, if none of your minions or allies have attacked yet this combat, you can activate this ability and force everyone in a 60 foot radius to make a Wisdom save (DC equal to your charming spell DCs). All who failed must attempt to reach a diplomatic solution for at least 1 hour before resuming combat
As for the looting: maybe have your minions get advantage on looking for secret doors or hidden traps as the levels progress, haven't thought as much on this one as I have the charming
Anyway, just some thoughts/ideas. dunno if these are unbalanced or whatever just some ideas that fit the idea of a good overlord with a charming tendency.
Problems With The Class
Let us look at the problems this class has to further emphasize why this class is broken(various from Class Do's and Don'ts (5e Guideline) as well)
- This class has too many features, plain and simple. Most classes should only have 1 feature or spell slot progression at every level, see the amount of features a paladin gets compared to this class
- This class has access to d12 hit die, cantrips, spellcasting, minions, and terror points. How is a d12 spellcaster with a ton of features balanced in any way?
- At the very 1st level, you can attack as a bonus action with multiple terror points to deal additional damage. At 20th level, how is dealing 10d12 damage(what type) as a bonus action balanced?
- Strike fear is the first of a plethora of features that make creatures frightened permanently, which breaks the condition rules in the PHB p. 290, because the condition can not be countered once it has affected a creature and it has no duration for ending being frightened by the overlord
- The minions have round counting, access to higher level minions/hives is not listed in the class features table as an improvement(to simply things you can say you get access to certain minions at xth level and cut down on text).
- Totems/special minions are entirely up the DM on whether they allow you to get them, because of this, they are poorly designed features(the feature's power level varies far too much and in the case of special minions, it does not describe enough to be usable, and also don't except a DM to come up with a stat block on the fly for a creature).
- Minion's upgrade is not how armor and weapons work in 5e... having a maximum bonus to attack and damage rolls and AC breaks the rules of equipment in the PHB p. 143-148
- Mistress's is a problem because features should not make your DM bend the story they are tying to tell, and overall is a pretty redundant feature(can't you hire a guard, drill sergeant, or something similar to accomplish the same thing?)
- Infamous has the same problem as mistress's and could be reduced to you gain advantage on saving throws against being charmed
- According to spellcasting you get cantrips at 3rd level, if you get cantrips earlier, then the feature should be moved to reflect that
- Minion Sacrifice disrupt the hit point economy, see the 5e guideline above
- Absolute Domination is just a broken feature, and taming powerful creatures in general is a house rule
- Marked, free action, magical damage
- Servant, you can do this anyway by rping, why is a feature needed?
- Weapon of Evil, +10 to attack and damage rolls sounds pretty reasonable(it is not), this feature could be reduced to spending a few terror points to increase the attack and damage rolls by +1
- Overlord Resistance does not work for a feature(having negative features is a big no in terms of design), and reducing damage by a static amount is not how damage reduction works in 5e
- Overlords Taxes, you still can not make your DM give your more gold
- Magic Connection breaks the rules of conventional spell casting
I have had enough of this class, it seems like someone's attempt to create a class that does whatever they want, ignoring many of the rules outlined in the PHB and any semblance of balance. As such, I will be stopping my review of this class here.--Blobby383b (talk) 10:23, 9 October 2017 (MDT)
- The class currently:
- Is missing quick build
- Has too many features at certain levels and should not have features on the same level that they gain a spell slot improvement
- Is still unbalanced because certain features need tweaking(few class features and many archetype feature have poor wording or are overpowered)
- Many of the archetype features are still unbalanced and/or not completed because several of the previous features did not make sense, were broken, ect.
- There is still probably typos and wording issues everywhere. I have fixed many of them, but the class is huge and wording was not more upmost concern when looking through the class.
- The class is not balanced yet, although the class, in its current state, is much more usable than before after the massive amount of balancing and tweaking done. I will be taking a break from the taunting task of fixing this class for a while, feel free to improve the class or to leave suggestions below.--Blobby383b (talk) 10:23, 15 October 2017 (MDT)
Previous Copy of The Class
You can find a copy of the class in its previous state here, be warned though, it is extremely overpowered and makes your DM curtail their campaign around you. A user once stated that they could go toe to toe with 2 adult blue dragons when they were at 20th level.--Blobby383b (talk) 14:15, 19 October 2017 (MDT)
- Over time yes, but again that is up to the DM's discretion, pretty much all overlords are not going to get to good alignment by the time they reach 3rd level as well. The good paths were also nonsensical or lacked flavor, there is no such thing as a "buffing" spell, there are spells that have positive effects on creatures but there is no category for them. The ability score increase path was the most boring and least innovate archetype I have seen on the wiki to date. Finally, the charming archetype does not fit into what an overlord does and again had features that just gave two spells and a proficiency that makes the archetype fairly weak and bland.--Blobby383b (talk) 11:33, 23 October 2017 (MDT)