Talk:Dominion Overlord (5e Class)
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Ok, buff the archetypes and set what levels the feature come into effect. Also it’s looking really good so far. Try to buff the damage on some of the later level spells because right now the 13th level feature I think it is, that only does about 4d6 damage. Most enemies at that level would just shrug that off. The Fyre Fox - The Only Real Fox There Is. (talk) 04:29, 2 November 2017 (MDT)
my first class
hello there this is my first class and i hope you all enjoy i made this class to be a meaning of the true and raw power that no one else has anyway i hope you find it cool Alucarddragonborn (talk) 08:52, 6 November 2017 (MST)
- I’m tracking your edits and liking quite a bit. Rage being changed to anger was nice. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 15:43, 25 January 2018 (MST)
Before you claim this class as overpowered think of how fun it would be for the Dm or Gm to constantly throw more CR 30 creatures at them making this class less overpowered.
- Nice try. Still overpowered, and also incredibly poorly written and formatted. It's not up to wiki standards. Fix it, or host it somewhere else. (Varkarrus (talk) 12:25, 25 January 2018 (MST))
- I thought I'd check talk page before going over this and there's nothing here lol (common thing templates being added without users knowing what to change) I will start with balance is not decided by how many CR X creatures a DM/GM can throw at it. It is compared to first party content. As stated, you're going to have to be open minded. If you want to ignore the health of the game at the table, you really don't need to create an entire class for it. Grant your character 20 in each ability, a divine/tainted increase to proficiency bonus equal to "x", fast healing of 10/20/30 because of whatever reason, resistance to all damage just because, and immunity to conditions. I'd say that'd cover any issue of being challenged. Then after it is over, ask yourself why are you playing if you don't want a challenge? BigShotFancyMan (talk) 12:36, 25 January 2018 (MST)
Here's my view on the class:
- The whole page needs to be gone over with a fine-toothed comb to correct the grammar, because it's horrendous.
- d12 hit die + heavy armor proficiency looks strong but isn't actually that bad. No light armor proficiency does seem odd though.
- I don't like that the number of hate points you have is dependent on a die roll, and considering some of the things you can do with hate points are pretty powerful, I don't think they should be regained when you're hit.
- I can't make heads or tails of what Gauntlet is supposed to do; the wording is very bad here.
- You're Too Weak's damage reduction gets too high at 4th level; it might be okay if gained at a higher level but at this point it's too strong. "As a passive" doesn't make a ton of sense; I notice this phrase elsewhere on the page too. The feature mentions "absorbtion" but I have no clue what that is.
- Hate Burst doesn't seem that bad from what I can make out, it's worded really horribly though.
- Dead level at 2nd.
- House Domination seems strange to me. It's a moderately sized house that takes 10 days to build - why can't you just use the normal rules for constructing buildings? The feature mentions your "minions" whom are not mentioned previously - what are their statistics? People can challenge you for the house, and you must fight to the death. Why can't you just abandon the house if the enemy is powerful enough that you don't think you can win?
- Extra Attack should be worded the same way it is for the barbarian and similar classes.
- I'm just going to stop here because I am having physical pain while reading through this. OP, please read Help:A Good DM. The argument of "the DM can just _____" isn't valid and doesn't hold water. Please compare this class to the ones in the SRD and in other first-party material, and revise this class to be of a reasonable power level. I would also recommend installing Grammarly or a similar program. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email) . . 13:43, 25 January 2018 (MST)
Some of the features in this class i will admit are OP And badly worded,but someone has added some unwanted content on this class like in the Hate Burst feature it states " This ability let’s you choose how you don’t want to hit. For every 1d6 you use you, you can by choice increase your range for the cast by 20 feet for every 1d6"i did not put that it seems that someone else did but it doesn't show up on my whatchlist l dont know why.--Alucarddragonborn (talk) 13:54, 25 January 2018 (MST)
- Please revert to your preferred revision. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email) . . 13:55, 25 January 2018 (MST)
I'll do my best man.
- Well of Hate: why are the points random (1d4)? Do they reset after long rest and you never know how many you'll have? At level 20, you'll 20d4 points as well, I will keep this in mind while looking at the costs of features. In addition, I am leery of the hit point regen. Minimum damage is 1 (source Jeremy Crawford via Twitter). So only when a creature does 1 point of damage will this get a hit point back. Seems moot and just creates more things to be aware about. ignore my bolded comments, I see now you meant hate points. I agree with Geodude that this class, currently, does not need to regain them.
- Gauntlet: I do believe wielding 2H weapons in one hand to be a very powerful thing. You might be able to get away with this since you can't two weapon fight with two 2H weapons, but I am sure others will protest this feature.
- Grapple throw: you can grapple as part of an action if I recall correctly. I'd change this to reflect spend the hate point to throw them as a bonus action.
- Rage: I'd rename this as it could be confused with the rage feature of the barbarian.
- Powerful: I'd make the description say it lasts for 1 minute. No need to include every extra minute it costs 1 more hate point, if they want to be powerful longer, spend another bonus action and hate point and voila. I'd also limit this to say one size category larger, and make it advantage on strength ability checks to push, pull, drag, and lift.
- You're too weak: heavy armor can be worn as light? this is much too strong for level 1. I don't agree with shrugging of damage scaling, seems how this feature exists elsewhere and doesn't scale. If you want something to scale, allow the feature to grant heavier armors worn as lighter ones at higher levels (due to so much training in them or something flavorful)
- Hate Burst: I don't think the chance to knock prone is necessary, so I'd switch the save for not being pushed back. The 9th level damage increase I don't think necessary since you allow this to scale. (also, keeping in mind how many hate points you have, you could 36d6 at level 9 potentially if you spent every hate point on this-the class gets too many hate points in my opinion. 5e is doesn't protect against friendly fire usually. I'd say you have to spend additional hate points to not target allies. Needs clarity about increasing the range as well. There's something about a d6 at the end. If it were me, I'd have that every 2 hate points spent increases the range of this by 5 feet.
- House Domination: I don't think it is necessary as a feature. Roleplaying should be able to accomplish what is here.
- Explosive Aura: I personally don't like the term aura as it implies a sense of constant benefit (unless not active). Therefore, in order to keep an aura and also be different from hate burst, I'd make it aura of pain or something else flavorful. It could deal damage to each creature that finishes its turn within 10 feet equal to its cha modifier or class level. There's a paladin in WotC content (I think) that has an aura like this. check out the paladin class on d&d wikia page, it'll list auras there and you can get a feel for what I am talking about with auras.
- Carnage: How are you dealing this damage? and again, the number of hate points in your pool makes this too strong. I am currently thinking hate points should scale like a monk's ki (or even more so, scale less because of the power these features have)
- Village Domination: I'm glad these are on ASI levels lol. means it is not such a big deal to not have them or trying to move them. Again, minor/major roleplaying can achieve your goal here.
- Dominion Balance Breaker: a lot here friend. I think the feature title fits as this does break balance lol. +5 armor class is too much. a lot of magical armor don't provide this high a bonus (if any). at most I'd give +2. +20 speed...why? most cases, speed is increase by 5 or 10. Alright, 5 hate points to deal max damage. I'd like to move away from max damage idea. the amount of ways to roll a lot of dice for damage currently makes max damage way to powerful. I do like this is only available 2x per long rest, I'd rather see it once though given its power level. The wings and flying; go for level 18 on this? this is such a good ground melee class there needs to a weakness. And not being able to fly isn't exactly the end of the world. The double damage on unarmed strikes just means this does 2+Str modifier since the class isn't proficient with unarmed strikes. I don't encourage you switching it though :P
- City Domination: I think you can guess my thoughts
I am going to stop and take a break. Think about my suggestions for this. This is just feature balances too, doesn't mean there wouldn't be more things to come once there's a better, clear & concise idea what this class is and/or does. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 14:00, 25 January 2018 (MST)
lol when was the last time I touched an article of yours without making sure it’d be okay? You’re good man. Do your thing, I’ll be adding more things to the talk page. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 15:18, 25 January 2018 (MST)
- Continuing on.....
- I who shall awaken:I think it better to explain how it works than reference another feature. Also, why does AC get calculated 13+Str instead of 10+Dex or 13+Dex? Why change to Str? How long does this last? Is the chant phrase like the number of uses? it'd be easier to use that verbiage. Is dragon shot an action to make a ranged attack or bonus action? I get it costs 5 points to enter this form to deal dragon shot, but 10d6 is quite high I think for 1 point. 14 points at level 14, so minus 5 equals 9 points. so 90d6 is the potential? A 14th level Wizard that casted only fireball would have a potential of 94d6. So the DO can match spell damage output and still be a martial machine. I also don't get why people would be scared you crushed a sword :/
- I Am the Heavenly Dragon: first off, the CR is too high. In 3.5 the closest you could get a cohort level was within 2 of yours (iirc) and 5e pets are greatly less. I'd recommend going CR equal to 1/2 your HD. Also, there's no limit to how many times you can do which I strongly encourage you to include.
- Who Wields The Power Of Domination:I don't think I'm going to critique this how I want to because I find it to be the most mild feature of the class. If he wants to crush stuff when he gets hit, neato. His actions and bonus actions are oppressive.
- kingdom Domination: Domination features aren't necessary. roleplay roleplay roleplay. you don't need a rule that tells the DM you get to rule an area. If your DM won't let you accomplish things like this, find a new one lol
- I Mock The Infinite & Fret Over The Dream: what is your goal with this? I am angry reading it because its like you put a game genie in your sega to beat the game. A 5e SRD Tarrasque could be solo'd by this class. That's a CR 30, meaning it takes roughly 4 level 30 PCs to fight it, but no with a DO. Could you fix this, and by that I mean tone it down. A lot.
- I shall Become the Overlord Of Domination:The goal isn't to get abilities above 20 before level 20 if I am not mistaken. 60d10 potential...not as bad as the other one but still, really strong martial character with really good spells. Earth bind should be concentration and 5 hate points, plus saving throw for non flying creatures as well.
- I Will Drown You In The Deepest Parts Of Your Despair: ASI and a feature?? not that it doesn't happen, typically the features are minor though and NONE of these are. Frightened usually lasts 1 minute. I don't think it would be fun to keep track how many times a weapon hit you either.
- Juggernaut Drive:IS this a form? How do you activate it? How long does it last? It's free to enter? You'll have around 150 hp at level 20, so you could get his for 5 rounds?? maybe 1 more with good rolls and high Con? Can I use the abilities when not in the form? so 20d6 nova burst? suppose it'd be one shot. I can now do max and double damage? but must rest to do it again? Im confused, how can I do this? Last one, why? Just buy a scroll of plane shift and go. this is all unnecessary rules stuff.
- I am going to echo Geodude that this class is excruciating to read. I won't touch the subclasses because I am not sure how the core class is suppose to operate. I don't know it's true strength. It isn't that the featuers are necessarily bad, but the damage is crazy. I'd like to point out with 24 str, there are times you'll have 26 AC. other times I think it would be calculated normally but there's no balance between needing armor or not. This gets to wear it all times, maintaining a 23 AC if it wished. That's the work up, some edits you did were good, others didn't impact the balance of the class at all. Please consider the things I and Geodude have said and feel free to ask balance questions. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 09:12, 29 January 2018 (MST)
- I support things that get better as you go, but 1 or 2 improvements is a good/soft limit. I don't get the impression Juggernaut is a feature that scales either. Rather is an "ultimate" feature. On your talk page I referenced a few pages, I mention this because if you want things that scale, it is good to stay away from AC increases or pluses to hit unless it is once. So maybe one improvement they get +1 AC and the other involves damage or +1 hit. The next time, you don't get AC increase but a different combat buff. Look at bounded accuracy on your talk page for more (BETTER) details about what I am mentioning. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 16:49, 29 January 2018 (MST)
YES! ABSOLUTELY. Minor improvements are great way to buff classes. With so many features you really bog down a player with everything they need to know. Simple improvements really help make balanced buffs. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 19:43, 30 January 2018 (MST)
Hey Alucard, I’m revisiting this. A lot of good work has been. I’ve noticed some minor grammar and balance issues though. I think proof reading will help the grammar but I’ll outline some things I think are balance issues.
- Gauntlet-This is essentially a sentient item with no stats. Regardless, sentient items for first level are a tad farfetched. This also gives 3 languages, at most I could see one language. Also, 2d6 force damage would be better at 1d6 bludgeoning.
- Powerful-is this appear to look large or physically becomes large? If appears, why would there be physical benefits?
- You're weak-needs cleaned up, but also this combined with other frost level features and all armor proficiency, if the dude is hit, he can reduce. If this is core to the class, put a cooldown on it. 1/short or long rest.
- Hate Burst-grammar
- Force Aura-grammar
- Carnage-needs clarity
- Dominion Balance Breaker-needs clarity. Dragon shot I think is okay. Is crush necessary? I can intimidate people for similar effects, I don’t need hate points to crush rocks (I think)
- Full Counter-should there be credit given to Seven Deadly Sins on this page? I like the feature and cooldown though. Skeptical of the 3d10 & it’s another feature that reduces armor for a class that gets heavy armor.
- Relentless Domination-an odd calculation for CR affected. Open to simplifying this?
- Level 20-quite uncommon for two features. Another Meliodas feature. Another transformation feature. I think the former has potential, but the transformation one needs reworked to bring its own individuality and balance to it.
I’m gonna add stubs to this, otherwise it’ll show up as a completed article when some categories changes get made. I’m also going to add franchise template for the deadly sins inspiration. If another wikian finds them unnecessary feel free to remove. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 11:58, 10 April 2018 (MDT)
First thanks for revisiting this but i got rid of using meliodas ability because i dnit think it was necessary and i got rid of the dominion balance breaker because it was hard for me to explain and i really stop using it when i tested it out with my friends.
- I am just cruising through the needsbalance pages and see this one. I noticed you making edits from time to time. Where do stand on the class? Anything you're having trouble balancing? BigShotFancyMan (talk) 13:55, 8 May 2018 (MDT)
- I edited the first three features, hopefully those help you get a better idea how things should read. I also added a link to the :wording: template at the top. Check it out, I'm sorry I didn't catch it before but "hate points" shouldn't be capitalized, similar to a monk's ki opints, or mystic's psi points. Since your decently active, and it is mainly your project, I am going to help out elsewhere unless you need something. Cheers Alucard BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:53, 9 May 2018 (MDT)
My idea is to not add another feature at level 20 and just use the Path Feature for level 20 as the capstone feature. Adding awesome subclass feature and core class feature at level 20 I think creates more power than necessary. If there are more ideas from others I'd like to hear them, but I suggest making solid level 20 subclass features. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 14:07, 18 July 2018 (MDT)