Talk:D&D Wiki Magazine/Issue 5

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Azernath said: "The main theme should not only consider holy, but also honor, divine, and maybe even celestial. Items for clerics and paladins are wanted, divine creatures are necessary addition, and classes and archetypes like the Inquisitor (5e Class) and Oath of The Inquisition (5e Archetype) are good caniddiets but not nearly as good as needed. This is just to get things clear for the future searches, and in hopes of getting things with no rejections."

It is a nice broad topic, but I don't want to conflate "holy" with "lawful", and I don't think we should throw in any old spell just because it's a cleric spell. I myself tend not to make divine-related homebrew... I thought of Positive Energy Aura (5e Spell), but I don't want to conflate "positive energy" (as it's defined in D&D cosmology) with "holy" either. Marasmusine (talk) 11:50, 4 March 2016 (MST)
The pages you linked to are good for the theme, but they'll need a bit of work. Marasmusine (talk) 11:55, 4 March 2016 (MST)

I was think to expand the title to the subject of (divine and cursed, holy and unholy, light and darkness) this would give us the ability to shift our attention from the light side to the dark side and vice versa. Azernath (talk) 15:04, 26 March 2016 (MDT)

P.S. I was also thinking of making the atonement spell which works similar to this spell. If you think the spell is somewhat subjective, then read this story. Azernath (talk) 15:04, 26 March 2016 (MDT)

That story is going into the magazine. It's happening --Salasay Δ 11:40, 27 March 2016 (MDT)


We could do a sort of angels/demons edition, holy/unholy type stuff. That could help narrow the field by limiting ourselves to stuff with a direct counterpart. --Salasay Δ 14:47, 4 March 2016 (MST)

Seems like we should do this, since we're already strapped for content. Im Salasay Δ, just not signed in.-- 06:57, 29 May 2016 (MDT)

We could also add a small part that give a small and simple ideas for campaigns and quests. For example:

Pursuit of the Seer. You and your allies have searched long and far to meet this seer, yet he/she is not willing to meet you or hear what you have to say. Therefore, the seer choose to run away from you and seek a place that none can find in, hoping to never have to answer a question that one of you hold for him/her. So, armed with whatever weapon you possess leaving behind all your connections to your previous, you and your friends venture forth to find the seer and put an end to this long overdue cat and mouse game.

3.5e Stuff[edit]

Holy/Unholy Shield: An individual with this feat can convert one of their channel attempts into a holy/unholy shield (+1 shield levels 1-5, +2 shield levels 6-10, +3 Shield levels 11-15, and +4 shield 15+) for a number of rounds equal to their character level. This shield's bonus gains an additional +1 vs opponents of the opposite alignment. Prerequisite: Ability to channel energy per the cleric ability, 14+ Wisdom

Sacred Writings of Ganyon Bel: Ganyon Bel was a follower of the Elder Gods. Unfortunately for him, these gods were not known for answering the prayers of their devotees. He spent decades in various forms of prayer as he sought his God's approval. Over the years he wrote down his observations, his failures and successes. This book grew into a sort of spellbook for him, when he died the books was passed down amongst his followers and copied and distributed in secret. No one knows how many copies exist. If an individual spends a week attuning themself to the book (i.e. studying it), thereafter they will be able to study the book in the morning and be granted 3 random first level cleric spells that they can cast throughout the day. These spells cannot be converted into healing spells. If they are not cast in the next twenty four hours they are lost from memory and the individual must study the book again. Clerics, Paladins and others who devote themselves to a specific Deity that use this book run the risk of incurring their Deities wrath (DM Determines consequences).

Just an idea. I haven't posted anything with holy in it really. I'll keep pondering. --Calidore Chase (talk) 17:41, 7 March 2016 (MST)
Sorry, just moved so I have been out of touch for a while. Will try to think of something soon. --Calidore Chase (talk) 13:18, 29 April 2016 (MDT)


Maybe the final trinket could be something like a model torii gate or a totem or something? Just my 2 cents SirSprinkles (talk) 02:13, 31 March 2016 (MDT)


What about talking about the nature of faith from a philosophy of religion perspective, and how it is represented in D&D? It could even be directed at DMs to give some insight into how to portray faith more genuinely, with greater creativity and sensitivity. Religion is often handled in a very dismissive, juvenile sort of way in D&D, with "religion" often being conflated with the superficial trappings of a given religious culture. If we're going to talk about such an important topic, even tangentially, I think we should take it seriously as an opportunity to enlighten our peers and the hobby. --Kydo (talk) 06:05, 9 June 2016 (MDT)


So, about the trinkets, I noticed that some of the ones you removed for being "too close to real religion" were kind of... Not. Like, what real-life religion does a silver flask have anything to do with? The game itself specifies that silver is objectively harmful to fiends, so I listed it as a sort of generic all-purpose trinket that any religious person might have made in such a world. Also, many religions have certain common articles/items/symbols, (At least 4 major religions use some form of a cross, for example.) and including those human themes of religion does not seem, at least to me, to imply the preference or inclusion of any modern real-world religion. I'm also wondering why it matters if real-world religious items are referenced. The PHB lists the pantheons of multiple real-world polydeistic religions, so I'm not sure exactly what the problem is. However, I do like that there's more room to include trinkets from D&D religions now. --Kydo (talk) 11:33, 2 July 2016 (MDT)

Halloween Theme[edit]

Should or should we not change the theme of the issue from holy to horror, undead, or fiends for the sake of Halloween? If so than we must work over time to get this issue up and running. This would also help us delay the problem with the holy theme being variable from one person to another for another time. Azernath (talk) 17:26, 15 August 2016 (MDT)

I disagree. I dont want this thing to become hokey. --Kydo (talk) 19:24, 15 August 2016 (MDT)
Hokey, What do your mean by... Oh!!! Well the thing is we can't seem to get along on what holy is, and even if we do no one seems to be interested in it. In the end it should be something that the community enjoy working with it together. Don't worry we will not allow this endeavor to turn into a mistress of the night to anyone. Heavens know we will not do a holiday special, not while I still have a drop of blood in me. :) Azernath (talk) 19:57, 15 August 2016 (MDT)
But I was eagerly awaiting the Holiday Special! --Calidore Chase (talk) 18:21, 16 August 2016 (MDT)
And what would you think we could add to a holiday special? I doubt Santa would let us add his name with all the bad demon kids and satanic worshiping, he his a reputation to keep with the good kids and the money hording dragons, I mean companies. Besides do you have any idea how to make for Santa states into a monster anyway. I don't think regenerative HP that can only happen with eating milk and cookie would work good in a fight. :) Azernath (talk) 23:26, 16 August 2016 (MDT)

I'm carrying on with the Holy theme, as I don't want to abandon the prep work I've already done. I can't wait any more for some of the incomplete submitted pages to be finished, so will be removing those. I don't need any more new pages to be started. I do need existing pages on the wiki hunting down, proofreading and checking for balance, particularly 3rd edition. I am afraid we do not have enough active members to support me in this. Marasmusine (talk) 04:00, 18 August 2016 (MDT)

5e Content Review[edit]

I have completed my revisions of Hound Archon. I believe it is a very good race, and should be included.

I have made some substantial changes to sainted human. I believe it to be acceptable for play now.

I have made the same changes to the sainted subrace.

I made some big changes to the sainted class.

I have made significant changes to Sorath, but it still needs work. The physical description is just poorly thought out.

I started giving inquisitor a thorough review, but it is completely and totally non-functional. I didn't even get past the 2nd level features before just flagging it for improvement and moving on.

I gave the channeler a bit of review, but it, too, is not especially functional. I didn't even get to the class features. It's also a largely redundant class- a variant of the warlock. It could have been done better as an archetype, so I find the whole page to be rather excessive and useless.

Divine magic is broken, and the OP has not responded with his vision for that content. I hesitate to edit it, because it's such a minor thing, I could very easily lose the spirit of the design.

I am continuing my discussion with Azernath about the Oath of the Inquisition.

Oath of the Justicar isn't obviously bad, but it does need some cleanup of the language. It has poor grammar and spelling, and some of the features are very poorly explained. Aside from that, its only function seems to be to give everyone advantage on saves all the time. Kinda boring. The capstone feature is kinda crazy, but, I mean, it's a capstone. There's no such thing as epic level in 5e, so we don't really have anything to justify how one should balance a capstone feature.

Marasmusine, do you need someone to write a section on the topic of faith in D&D? Would you like help with the editing?

--Kydo (talk) 02:03, 14 September 2016 (MDT)

Thanks for the reviewing Kydo. I have more incentive to work on the magazine when other people are invested. My main hurdle is preparing 3rd edition material. It's the fiddliest of the editions, it's been a long time since I played it, so I can only spot basic balance issues. Everything has to be correct, including Ex/Su/Sp designators for class features and so on. There's also very little 4e content. Half of me wants to make the magazine 5e only.
I will be very thankful for any kind of essay or editorial piece. Marasmusine (talk) 06:20, 14 September 2016 (MDT)

Ok not much, but I did a review of the seraphim patron and noted my grievences in the discussion page. Did not edit it because my suggested changes were partially opinion based and might lose the OP's intent. I have not gotten a response back. I can propably work with someone for the development of the class, just making sure I get the "ok" to make changes.--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 06:49, 17 February 2017 (MST)

Magazine Template[edit]

Perhaps it would be nice to mark articles which made it to publication with a tiny template at the top corner? Kind of like Featured Articles, but not as dramatic. Something humble and fun looking. If it added them to a unique category, then people could browse only articles that have been included in the magazine, if they wanted to. Sound like fun? --Kydo (talk) 17:31, 20 September 2016 (MDT)

Fantastic Faith[edit]

In Dungeons & Dragons settings, religious faith, reality, myth, and magic all converge into a common form. Far different from the ambiguous nature of deities, religion, and faith in the real world, D&D settings have the gods literally among us, openly manifest in physical form! It's pretty hard to be an atheist or agnostic when you could realistically one day have tea with a god or one of their agents. This type of religion, where magic and faith unite as one, faith cranked to 11, is rather difficult for many new players, (and even some old hands) to grasp. It is so divergent from our experience of reality, it almost makes D&D settings more exotic and alien than any other works of high fantasy. Indeed, once players reach higher levels, it is possible for them to even go planeswalking across the literal heavens, and maybe even some of the hells if the campaign (or their stubbornness creativity) calls for it!

Even in such an apparently literal and blatant manifestation of the divine, there is always room for ambiguity of course. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems at first blush. With a bit of attention to detail, and some artistic license, it can quickly become apparent that the physical presence ofthe divine actually complicates faith much more than we may anticipate. Especially in a polydeistic world, a system with a pantheon of different deities, mortal life suddenly becomes inherently less valuable. Everyone knows, without question, that there is an afterlife. Powerful enough wizards and priests are likely to have even recorded detailed accounts of what it is like. Occasionally, people really do come back from the dead! This could easily account for the technological stagnation so often seen in D&D settings, where often tens of thousands of years may pass with little to no technological progress may have occurred! Why work to improve the world, when you know that living by your god's words will result in eternal reward? More horrifying, does not a physical afterlife, in which the demons, angels, and even the dead themselves may be fought and slain, mean a mortal's soul is just that- mortal? An afterlife with physical form means there could easily be an afterdeath! The mind boggles at the paranoia of the average dead farmer, now stranded on a plane inhabited by native beings that even epic adventurers would would reconsider getting into a brawl with! And what, really, even is a god anyways? A powerful primordial entity? A mortal who broke the bonds of reality? Perhaps they are a side-effect of the compounding magical force of millions of people who believe, like some sort of living mass delusion?

It complicates the issue of morality as well, with alignment becoming a very real, physical force, akin to electromagnetism or thermodynamics. What is evil in a D&D setting? Anything that evil gods support. Are the evil deities evil because of what they value, or does their evilness cause them to hold their values? Is it possible to be a "good" person who worships an "evil" deity? Or are good and evil just factions of deities in some grand cosmic war for mortal souls? Can an evil cleric heal through the power of his unholy light? Could a paladin cut a genocidal swath through hoards of "evil" creatures, in holy cruelty? (Hang on, that actually rolls of the tongue, I gotta' add that to my campaign binder!)

In general, we have interpreted the word "holy" to refer to those things blessed by the power of good, whatever that may be in your campaign. We have scoured the wiki for the brightest exemplars of fantastic holiness that we can find, and compiled them here for your use and enjoyment! Standing before you in these pages are the forces of good, arrayed and ready to bring light to the dark, and clarity to the confusion, no matter what world you decide to put them in.

(It turned out a little more directionless than I had planned, but I think it went ok... --Kydo (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2016 (MDT))

That's great, thanks. Marasmusine (talk) 12:11, 26 September 2016 (MDT)

Groundside Nominations[edit]

Is there a designated spot to place material for administrative review?--Sir Dinadan (talk) 11:31, 26 September 2016 (MDT)

Hello, please add them to the list on the page. Marasmusine (talk) 12:09, 26 September 2016 (MDT)
Thanks. Hope it makes the bar.--Sir Dinadan (talk) 13:14, 26 September 2016 (MDT)


So... When do we think this thing'll be going live? --Kydo (talk) 13:24, 27 September 2016 (MDT)

There's just not enough content. Right now I've got no-one to vet the 3.5e classes, and there are no 3.5e items or feats. I can edit this all together, but I need sub-editors to proof-read and check for balance. Is Holy Rager balanced? I have no idea. It's full of typos. I can't do it all on my own. Marasmusine (talk) 14:14, 27 September 2016 (MDT)
Marasmusine, I've been told I'm pretty savvy on all things 3.5E, I can start on the 3.5E stuff if you want. I can't work on it fulltime, but I can definitely start making a good dent in it! Darkzumi (talk) 17:26, 27 November 2016 (MST)
It would be useful to know how much of the readership (we got a few hundred downloads) are 3.5e and 5e, because I'm ready to drop 3.5e if it's a low proportion. Marasmusine (talk) 14:15, 27 September 2016 (MDT)
Aye... I haven't cracked a 3.5e book in years... In fact, I sold them. ANd back when I played, I never got into homebrew for it, because just learning the system was difficult enough. It's seriously the most complex game I've ever played, and I have no idea how to balance its content. Is the 3.5e community here kind of dead? I'd think homebrewers for that edition would be all over a chance to see their creations published in some form. How can we get that portion of the community more involved? --Kydo (talk) 16:04, 27 September 2016 (MDT)
I can send you a link for the entire PDF books (not encouraging online pirates) if you want? --Azernath (talk) 08:12, 28 September 2016 (MDT)

Should we be voting for the next issue's theme? --Kydo (talk) 13:51, 27 September 2016 (MDT)

Did we even finish the current theme because I still have thing to add still, but was waiting for other members to join, so we can have a better view. However, I am curious what the next theme should be, so I can pre-make some projects. I can send a message to all the previous member who had a hand in the magazine so we can hurry things up before christmas comes. --Azernath (talk) 14:08, 27 September 2016 (MDT)
I just know that Green Dragon wants some nice slimy ooze and I wouldn't mind either. Marasmusine (talk) 14:16, 27 September 2016 (MDT)
I will prepare the ooze dragon. :) --Azernath (talk) 15:05, 27 September 2016 (MDT)
If this is getting pushed back to December, that might be enough time for me to make an ooze-based dungeon by the time the next issue releases. Not an adventure, mind you, just a dungeon. I've been itching to make a dungeon crawl for weeks now, and a recent RPG.SE question got me inspired for all the wonderful traps you could make out of fluid media. --Kydo (talk) 16:04, 27 September 2016 (MDT)
My brain's gears are already spining over some few demonic ooze themed traps. :) --Azernath (talk) 08:12, 28 September 2016 (MDT)
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