User talk:Green Dragon

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User talk:Green Dragon
I welcome discussions! Although before contacting me see if your question is not dealt with on Meta Pages.
Among other things, I am looking for Featured Articles, and I want your contributions to support this process!

Annoyances and maybe stepping down as admin?[edit]

Yo GD, I've not been really active on dandwiki recently, and I'm kinda undecided as to whether I want to be. Communicating with people to coordinate, improve, or achieve anything is a real big hassle. And I've tried a few times to suggest improving our communication methods, too, but those have also fallen by the wayside.

Though there's plenty of work I could do yet, but a big part of the fun of dandwiki for me is the collaboration part of it. And I'm finding it hard to really do much in that respect, though maybe that's just my own failing. I still love dandwiki and use it constantly, but I'm finding it hard to get myself motivated to do anything for it, because there are fundamental issues for me that aren't getting solved.

I don't know if I'm wording my problems obtusely, but let me know if I am being dumbvague. In light of me not really feeling the "Improve dandwiki!" mood, and I'm not sure we'll ever get around to bettering it for me, I'm thinking there's no real purpose in my staying on as an admin? I'unno, I still love y'all, but I feel confused about what the way forward from here is, gimme yer thoughts. --SgtLion (talk) 17:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree that you have been less active in the recent past. Lots of users get very busy, and notice so many pressing things in their lives that they need to pay attention to. That's normal, and from my understanding of the term collaboration: its a positive development. I look at collaboration as a means of working with other people positively.
I dislike reading a user say that he needs to spend his time editing D&D Wiki. In this sense, I feel that your poems and self reflections have improved as an admin. I enjoy reading your work on your user page, even if no one ever tells you. Just this alone, however, is never enough for a person to work with.
I am not certain why you have stopped working with python and bots. maybe your life has made you think too critically about you doing those things? This is why I always tell users that they should only do what they want to do. If you are motivated by python, then you have a drive to work with it. This is what I like to see, but like all other users I cannot tell if are driven to see improvements in collaboration or not. I can't change anything for you here, since I am just someone to collaborate with.
I have to admit that I have not seen any changes in communication methods. I also have not seen any collaboration here. I think I missed the discussions. If you have a link that would be great. This is my current view onto your situation.
With my view in mind, could you explain where exactly your problems are? Where has your motivation stopped? What fundamental issues are your communications pertaining to? --Green Dragon (talk) 15:58, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
That is entirely a really nice reply, thank you <3. I know you're not a magical solution deity, and I do appreciate the effort a whole lot. I'm not expecting you to wave a wand of solve things at the moment, just discussin' my issues.
For the record, I do still enjoy contributing, and enjoy adminnin', whether its pythonstuff, pathfinder, 3.5e fixing, etc.
But, I think my major issue is that I feel like we don't have the means of communication to come to a conclusion on, well, anything that's more than a simple topic, actually, but most of all, we can't seem to come to conclusions on any proposed improvements.
I understand that's mainly to do with the fact that we're a wiki, and that's fine, but, for instance: I've proposed reopening the chat a few times, on my fourth go proposing it, a few of us seemed to agree on giving it a go and I tried to push forward by messaging 'n emailing BD multiple times, but we've still gotten nowhere because he's busy presumably. But I have no way to really discuss these and other issues effectively, because it requires a lot of back and forth conversation.
That's not a huge issue on its own, per se, but it makes me feel like, much as I really love this site, we can't really move forward and improve on whatever things (or agree on not improving them, at least) when we need to. Because discussion on any problems or ideas that require a decent amount of back 'n forth discussion inevitably die before they reach fruition. And it gives me the feeling that we'll just eventually stagnate, and that any of my contributions would therefore be kind of pointless (though I can't deny, the site's done pretty well for the last forever).
Like I say, I may be entirely wrong on this, and it might all be better the way it is. It's just personally, I've found it more and more frustrating over the years to try discuss any ideas see them reach kind of conclusion.
I hope that explains my concerns decently. It's hard to explain my problems with our communication through that very medium of communication, but hopefully you get the idea. I would like to keep adminning and contributing on dandwiki, I just find these problems too frustrating for me to think it's worthwhile, at the moment. --SgtLion (talk) 21:52, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
I find your work with Pathfinder remarkable, and want to applaud you for that. It's taking a hard part of the structure and putting it into a useful context.
I have left the discussion for a chat room open for something that works.
Do not expect to get any help from Blue Dragon on this. How he would (likely) prefer his status to be, would be as one that references his editing status on D&D Wiki. His assistance is spend in other means for the upkeep and wellbeing of D&D Wiki.
I am a user who would prefer a chat room. Of course, I continue to stress that a chat room connected to our user accounts is best. So, our user names are real. Our actions in the chat room, thus, carry more weight.
There is also the technical side to a chat room. If you can give me the documentation for a chat setup then I can get it implemented. Don't expect long chats with Blue Dragon since in the end I will work the result out with him. --Green Dragon (talk) 22:23, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
You could try setting up a Discord server? --Geodude671 (talk) 23:20, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
We tried that months ago, but since GD just said he wanted one integrated with the wiki, I closed it today (it's technically still there, but I kicked everyone and removed the invite). No one even used it except two people I didn't recognize.--GamerAim (talk) 01:34, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
A connection with our usernames or for IPs is very important for me. I recall that the Discord server required a user-creation process for the IRC chat. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:14, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm not necessarily saying a chat would solve all issues, but I do think it could be meaningfully helpful.
Well, as we have had The Tavern before, I was rather under the impression that we had all the technical knowledge and code we needed. As the last time we discussed the idea of a chat, you asked me to liase with Blue Dragon to implement it.
It's extremely simple to get an embedded IRC client to any free server, where wiki users can register their usernames and IPs can just join without registering. Just a snippet of HTML code will achieve it. If that's all that is needed, I can provide that in, like, five minutes, just say the word.
If you really want to host an in-house IRC server that does an automatic linking in of users with our wiki usernames (which I think is what The Tavern did?). I'm not sure we can do that anymore without an in-depth custom job, as the IRC extension for MediaWiki is no longer supported. But if it was absolutely necessary, I could investigate this idea further.
Obviously, this is all I can do without server access. I'm happy to provide any technical information or help, but it does take backend work to actually implement any of it. --SgtLion (talk) 11:42, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
No, anyone could change their name at the Tavern, and no IP information was included with it. In addition, a user just wrote in a username they wanted to use. This must be a very massive misunderstanding at this point, if a user like yourself was under this impression.
If you have the technical information for a chat room that works based on user information from MediaWiki then when you give it to me I can start to get it implemented. --Green Dragon (talk) 12:26, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
At least with Discord, everyone has a unique user ID and it wouldn't be that difficult to manually verify people. I already had a system in place that restricted what people who weren't flagged as verified could do. I understand that it's not ideal, and I won't bring it up again if you still don't like the idea, but if people think that it's better than nothing, then I think it's worth trying? And if things get too uncomfortable, it's easy to just trash it and forget it ever happened (certainly easier than some in-site extensions, I'd think), so I'm not sure what we have to lose. Of course, you'd need to find a way to get more than 3 people in there for it to be worthwhile.--GamerAim (talk) 15:25, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm just going to slip in long enough to say that although a Discord sever might not be perfect, I still think it's better than any alternative of which I'm aware (and better than nothing). I would have joined a Discord server had I been active at the time and known about it. - Guy (talk) 21:40, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
I couldn't remember the Tavern all that well, so I was only working off my vague memories.
I think as GD said, Discord's requirement to set up an account and, in my opinion, not having it as an embedded widget work against it. We can use a super-simple IRC widget to set up a chat where people can register their wiki usernames, but that also allows IPs to join straight up and allows users to access it from a dandwiki page, so IPs can get there in a couple clicks.
If this automatic linking in to MediaWiki user information is a requirement for a chat, it seems nigh impossible, as far as I can make out. But as GamerAim states, just manually approving people would be a very minor workload and have the same effect. --SgtLion (talk) 07:20, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Would Extension:MediaWikiChat and Extension:WebChat work for everyone? These are the sorts of extensions I was talking about, but was not able to find until now. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:27, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Doesn't that make me feel like a silly-o. For some reason I discounted non-IRC options. I'm okay with us trying out either of those. --SgtLion (talk) 11:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
I also discounted them, assuming there was nothing out there for wikis. Good find, GD! Looking forward to trying them out in the Near™ future.--GamerAim (talk) 12:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Hi everyone, part of the problem getting The Tavern up and running again is me being oversubscribed / generally too busy. I've unfortunately had to only really work on things when a problem gets big enough—and—it appears that this problem is both big enough and GD proposed an easy solution. I went ahead and installed MediaWikiChat (Special:Chat). If you would all rather try the alternative, or another (easy to setup) solution, please let me know. Also, I believe SgtLion and myself talked a bit back about SgtLion getting backend access. I think that's a good idea and could help the wiki be upgraded sooner / etc. I'll be happy to pick up where we left off going down that path. If you are still up for it SgtLion, please reach out! Thanks, — Blue Dragon (talk) 23:28, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
I've been acutely aware that you're a pretty busy guy, so it's all cool as far as I'm concerned. I'll give the MediaWikiChat a try out, thanks for sorting that! I am still interested in backend access, hopefully I can help some with it, I'll pop ya' a message if y'don't first. --SgtLion (talk) 10:18, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

OGC Namespace[edit]

The old conversation was long and kind of, well, old, so I figured I'd let it get chucked into an archive sooner rather than later. I was wondering about the pending status of the OGC namespace? I know there's not two sourcebooks under it, and won't be for awhile since I have to finish the 3e SRD first, but it's integral to making sure the DPLs format links correctly, or else we get "OGC:" at the beginning of every link, cluttering the screen, making it ugly and harder to read, and making it harder to see if the DPLs have the right settings. So it's far from necessary, but it does prevent things from looking nice (in an area that I admit no one except me and you have probably browsed).

P.S. Did you settle on that space image for the non-SRD headers? If so, we'll need to pool ideas for an ideal text (unless you've decided on one) for it.--GamerAim (talk) 15:11, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

I have asked Blue Dragon about the namespace. Expect it to be added (soon). I wonder if you added mostly complete sourcebooks, like Path of Shadow, into the OGC structure it that would shed more light into it.
Sorry about not getting the image and text together sooner. It slipped my mind. I have responded to the discussion above. --Green Dragon (talk) 21:12, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the update! TBH, my main concern is if I'll have to move them to the OGC namespace, as the more pages I add, the more work it is later. If that's not the case, then my workload remains the same. The thing with adding mostly complete sourceboks is that even if I only did the existing pages, I have to go fact-check everything, hyperlink it if need be, and such. I'll look into it, but right now my planned order is 3e SRD, Quintessential Monk (since I deleted the entire thing for mass copyright infringement), Path of Shadow, Advanced Player's Handbook. Obviously, that may be years in the future before it's finished, IDK. I just don't want to have to move everything to the new namespace :P--GamerAim (talk) 21:32, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
It pleases me to hear you state your ambitions. I have a plea for you with the 3e SRD. My plea is for you to change the pages to the namespace “3e SRD“ before lots more pages get added. This should help organize the SRD namespaces. Thanks! --Green Dragon (talk) 09:07, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
That should be under 20 pages, so it's good you caught me before I went too far! I too think it's better your way :)--GamerAim (talk) 12:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Unnecessary Ban[edit]

So you banned me for removing the templates off my own work. then you say i was banned for starting an editing war. that is false. even after i was banned temp, the edit war continued. Geodude startws the editing war, while im trying to keep my creations in line with what i view the item should have. now im going to edit the arcane ring i made back. but i will however reduce its strength. i do not want it to have legendary rarity, nor attunement. additionally i will place a template for that it may deviate from 5e standards. so that way its own rules do not have to align with srd. and thus should not be edited any further —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Justsomedndplayers (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts!

When you add {{Design Disclaimer}} that will make your edits make some sense. I gave you a very light ban for starting an edit war, which you did on multiple occasions by reverting constructive edits without any valid reason. And this over and over again without any reason. The templates added to all the pages in question are constructive edits. Removing them in an edit war got you banned. Try other methods, like using the talk page, or replacing templates with {{Design Disclaimer}}. --Green Dragon (talk) 08:52, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
And to reiterate: I understand your frustration, but homebrew pages aren't really the best place to post passive-aggressive comics. I think we have a real template telling people to see the talk page first; if you need it, tell me and I'll find it :)--GamerAim (talk) 12:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
You also need to be prepared for other people editing your pages. The Design Disclaimer is for pages that deviate from design standards in a planned way, not for tacking onto something to excuse poor design. For example, Arcane Ring spends a lot of time describing how much it costs, but magic item costs and creation are a campaign-level consideration, as determined by the DM. Someone could quite reasonably edit the page removing such information. Marasmusine (talk) 20:04, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Using Other Licenses[edit]

Hey GD, sorry to bring this up, but do we still allow users to post content under licenses such as the CC BY-SA 3.0? Justsomedndplayers reproduced some CC BY-SA 3.0 licensed text on Elnade (5e Race), so I'm wondering how to proceed, assuming he doesn't otherwise have permission (I left a message on his talk page to ask him).--GamerAim (talk) 19:49, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes of course! He just needs to use Template:Cc-by-3.0. The actual content needs to be licensed under the Cc already, for someone other than the author to care of course. That page is a new page. There is no relicensing, since that is not allowed. --Green Dragon (talk) 21:40, 28 May 2017 (UTC).
Thank you! I am going to go ahead and delete the old page and make a new one with the same contents and that template on it. I am glad to see that this is so easily resolved :)--GamerAim (talk) 22:29, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
In this instance the licensing is more complicated then it first appears. Please read my reply there, and my reason for restoring the page. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:07, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. I wasn't aware of those facts, so I'm glad I got you involved. I replied there with my reasoning for deleting it and hope you forgive me for my ignorance <3--GamerAim (talk) 12:39, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
It gets so complicated in these instances that it makes my head spin when it needs to be further managed. Thanks for your objective answer! --Green Dragon (talk) 15:25, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Attribution Help Page[edit]

I went ahead and made an attribution help article using my understanding of our attribution policy. How does it look?--GamerAim (talk) 13:12, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

That's quite useful. I agree that it needs more information about locking pages, locking OGL pages, and that admins are always ready to lock a page for a trustworthy user if he feels that he only wants it to be edited by admins. --Green Dragon (talk) 15:30, 29 May 2017 (UTC)


Lion ring.jpg Lionring                            
I award you with the Lionring in return for your help getting the banner working. Good job!--GamerAim (talk) 01:04, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! --Green Dragon (talk) 09:07, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


Barnstar.png Barnstar                            
I know someone else already gave you an award recently, but I think it deserves recognition. Your dedication and leadership for this project is inspiring.

Dragon Elf[edit]

Hi GD, I noticed that you protected Dragon Elf (5e Subrace) for the reason "excessive vandalism," but I don't see any vandalism in the page history. I would like to ask why you have done this, because I'm just confused. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 13:32, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I protected it because, before your edit, multiple IPs had edited the page in ways which were not constructive. I can unlock the page if you prefer. --Green Dragon (talk) 11:00, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
No, that's alright. It's pretty much done anyway. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 14:29, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

hello i require assistance[edit]

is there anything you can do there is another user by the name of Geodude671 who is actively attempting to edit war with me over a class i made is there any way to get him to stop touching my page which is thank you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AmericanSephiroth (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts!

Hi, I'm not sure why you think I'm trying to edit war with you? Reddit user Axel4145 linked the post on /r/DnD, and other user ltwerewolf highlighted it as an example of what they perceived to be a poorly balanced class. I initially put a deletion template on the page because the class was so powerful that to bring it down to a power level comparable with the more powerful official martial classes would require rewriting it basically from scratch. You removed the deletion template (which you, as the creator of the page, are not really supposed to do, however...) and toned the class down, but after talking to user GamerAim he said, and I quote verbatim, "There are so many things wrong with that class, man." Since it seemed you were continuing to improve the page, rather than put the deletion notice back, I put a {{needsbalance}} template on it because, though it seemed (at the time) that the page was being actively worked on, it was still unbalanced and needed a template notifying other users of that fact. After you communicated your intentions to me that, yes, the class is intended to be much more powerful than the official martial classes, you added a design disclaimer to the page stating such. The message you put in the design disclaimer was, in my opinion, poorly worded, so I put a different one that got the same message across.
This is a wiki. You need to be prepared for other people editing your pages. At the bottom of every edit box, including the one I am currently typing this message into, there is a message that says "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." I recognize that it does NOT say "Ignore the ideas, values, beliefs, and opinions of your fellow editors at a whim," as the Spirit and Intent page will tell you. I do not believe I have done so. I have not made any changes to the content of the class, as you'll see from the page's edit history. All I've done is add Improving, Reviewing, and Removing templates to the page as (I had deemed it) necessary.
If you truly do not want anyone else to edit "your" page, you can move it into your userspace, where other users are not allowed to edit, except for administrators to remove content that breaks sitewide rules. If you do not know how to do this, I or another user would be willing to help you or do it for you. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 22:00, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
I apparently just missed this when I edited on Talk:Demon Brawler (3.5e Class). Let's please avoid escalating this.
Though I would've personally used the talk page after the first edit conflict, Geodude671 did nothing wrong here. There are balance issues that should be addressed, and he brought those issues up civilly. As per my message on the article talk page, if this issue persists after you're done rewriting the class, it will need to be addressed. Balance is a requirement on Dandwiki. --SgtLion (talk) 22:12, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
I'll respond on that talk page with details on the class, but I'd just like to state that quote was from the Tavern, which is a more casual place for conversation and that I hope it did not offend you. In the Tavern, I'm often multitasking and give shorter, less explanatory answers and comments than I would on talk pages, and I try to make it clear in the Tavern when I speak seriously on topics. I hope I can help you more on the class talk page :)--GamerAim (talk) 00:25, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Looking for your input[edit]

Hello, Green; Would you mind giving us your input on Template Talk:Copyright Disclaimer and Template Talk:Design Disclaimer?

I know you've already been involved in the former, but what I'm looking for is how you feel about Fair Use being used as our defense against copyright, on the grounds that the use is transformational; Do you think we should or should not do it? Or do you think there's another solution? I think you may have implied how you felt about it in some of your replies, but given that it is a serious matter and we never heard back from Marasmusine on the topic, I'd like to review it and just make sure we all know where we stand. Ultimately, because it has potential legal applications, I'd like to confirm how you feel on the matter.

As for the Design Disclaimer, there's been concern over its use to validate pages that deviate from balance standards, and we're trying to come to some sort of consensus regarding what we expect the Design Disclaimer to inform users about. --Jwguy (talk) 21:20, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't see why there is a debate. Just reading the disclaimer's stated purpose clearly shows that people are misusing it. The misuse and misunderstanding is because of my own poor writing on the Precedent guideline, which was far too open-ended to be practical. I incorrectly assumed people would actually read the template page and use that as their guide. But, hey, if you have the time, please let me know if I'm out to lunch on this. --Kydo (talk) 22:24, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Fair use has a legal definition, which covers derivative works. This is no concern.
{{Design Disclaimer}} should not be used for intellectual property rights, since this is manifested by user actions not by pages. I think the biggest concern is seperating design and user actions through this template. To really approach this concern, I fear, we may need more examples then what has occured. What users request page locks? What users use this template to hinder other users working with them? --Green Dragon (talk) 23:14, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Fair enough, I just figured that given the legal nature of the issue, you're entitled to a final say on how far you want to go with Fair Use and Copyright as the webmaster. Do you think that should apply to image use as well?
As for the Design Disclaimer, personally, I'm not sure the issue is as great of a concern as it is being made out to be, but as two members of staff brought concerns over the template (including one suggesting we remove the template entirely), I engaged it with the interest of preserving the template and what I believed its purpose should be. In response to Kydo, as well, you'll notice I suggested handling the individual misuses on the talk pages of the content it was being misused on, rather than any grand effort to remove or significantly modify/reinterpret the template. --Jwguy (talk) 13:16, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

"Excessive Vandalism"[edit]

I would first like to say that I have indeed edited the Juggernaut page without an account, and have since made one and if I make any edits in the future I'll continue to use this account. Another thing is that I have not been on this site long, and I'm most likely unaware of certain written and unwritten rules here.

You re-edited this [1] page and said it was because of "Excessive Vandalism". I don't agree with this because I only added two skills and changed a little over half the starting items, and I believe the class fits the "Juggernaut" title better with my edits.

I'm unsure of if you believed it was Excessive Vandalism because I didn't have an account, or you truly thought I added too much, but I personally think the class works better with my edits and would like you to put my edits back in.

I am basing my reply off Check User, meaning this editor is Danthemar and 2601:1c0:6b00:7f8:ec9a:36da:718c:85b4. For example [2] has no justification, and it is not playable. Other edits on pages like Scout (5e Background), Bladed Long Bow (5e Equipment), [3], etc, follow this same problemmatic edit behavior. --Green Dragon (talk) 15:26, 14 July 2017 (MDT)

Discussion for blocked IP[edit]

Hi there,

I just noticed that the my IP has been blocked, here's the log:

The block was made by Green Dragon. The reason given is Inserting false information. Start of block: 10:17, 18 July 2017 Expiry of block: 10:17, 18 October 2017 Intended blockee:

I've only been a member for a short while, and am currently unaware of any wrongdoing on my behalf. Could you clarify what "Inserting false information" means?

Hope this is the right place to discuss this.



Holly, I can see now that this was you. I blocked this IP because areas like the Gibbeth seem unconstructive, and I was worried that the changes were veiled. I will remove this block now. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:30, 18 July 2017 (MDT)

Separating April Fools content[edit]

I've separated April Fools content and derivative works from the 5e races, classes, and list pages. I was going to do the same for the spell lists but I can't figure out for the life of me how to do that with the template it uses. I'm staring at Template:5e Spell List Level with no clue how to ask for a page not in a category. You said to drop any questions on your talk page, so, help? — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 22:59, 27 July 2017 (MDT)

Ugh, yeah. You might need to ask SgtLion for help. I think that's what GD and I had to do when that template was broken last time. I proposed changing to a traditional DPL template, which didn't look or work as nicely, but, well, it was actually usable by mere mortals like us. Sadly, SgtLion was competent and fixed the template, so we never had cause to switch >_>--GamerAim (talk) 05:54, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
Not this evil thing, I need to stop supporting bad habits. I feel like an enabler when I make these hacky workarounds. Semantic #Ask inline queries are the work of the devil.
Anyhow, I tried, but it is explicitly impossible to exclude categories from #ask commands, sorry. 2-0 to DPL --SgtLion (talk) 06:22, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
So should we change that template to a DPL? — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 09:21, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
Yes, SgtLion and I agreed that it's the best course of action at this point, unless GD or others significantly disagree. It isn't as pretty, but Template:OGCAutoSpells should be easily adapted to any of our functional needs. I probably can't implement it today, maybe not tomorrow, but should Sunday or Monday at the latest. The template would need to be adapted, but it's a relatively simple DPL, so if you can figure it out, go ahead and do it :) --GamerAim (talk) 09:28, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
If we change the spells then every page needs to be updated. The summary would be changed from SMW to a parameter. I wonder if we can add a SMW tag on Template:April Fools and then use the SMW ! to exclude any pages with this tag. If we do this, do we know if a value for the tag needs to be added to each spell page, or not? The last choice is to not seperate the April Fools spells. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:51, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
Do you mean that every page for every spell needs to be updated? If so, we may be able to enlist the help of SgtLion's bot. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 10:35, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
My bot could do that, if need be. GD's idea of adding a maybe transcludable property into the April Fools template is smart thinking though. I'll look into it now. --SgtLion (talk) 14:55, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
I'm probably missing something but wouldn't we just change Template:5e Spell List Level to use #dpl and the notcategory field? Marasmusine (talk) 15:34, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
(Why did I use #ask in the first place?) Marasmusine (talk) 15:37, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
That was you who used #ask? >_> The main problem, AFAIK, is that IDK how to transclude 5e Summary using a dpl, which means summaries wouldn't be visible.--GamerAim (talk) 17:13, 28 July 2017 (MDT)
As discussed, my bot is in the process of pushing the 5e Summary SMW property tag into the 5e Spell template as a |summary parameter. This should get us going with the DPL lists. As it is, I've left the 5e Summary as a first sentence in the article content, as well as a parameter, but this can be amended, if it becomes a problem. --SgtLion (talk) 09:37, 19 August 2017 (MDT)


Hello Green Dragon. I recently found a new user called User:BlackDragon, and I'm not sure what course I should take. With that username, they might be confused with User:Blue Dragon or yourself, but I don't want to block them, as they haven't really done anything wrong outside of the potentially confusing user name. SirSprinkles (talk) 03:40, 30 July 2017 (MDT)

But hasn't Dark Dragon been around awhile?--GamerAim (talk) 06:43, 30 July 2017 (MDT)
You could probably ask them to create a new account with a different name, explain why their name might be confusing, and emphasizing that they haven't done anything wrong. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 09:48, 30 July 2017 (MDT)
The policy states that only if usernames are obscene can the user be blocked. Blue Dragon and I are listed in RfA so users should know who they are looking for. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:30, 30 July 2017 (MDT)

A Problem With One Of Your Staff[edit]

Hello and Good morning,

I have a problem with Marasmusine, who supposedly does editing work for you on this site. You actually gave him Special Recognitions like the Barnstar, so I believe you are familiar with him. He has come onto my class with the intent of correcting areas of the class. However, he has only been rude and disrespectful which has caused me to be rude back to him. I want to stay away from my page as at this point I only see him as harassing me. I do not care what rules he quotes or what "power" he thinks he has. I have a right to use this page and he does not have the right to act like he has complete control over my own class. I thought this site was for everyone's equal use, not for Marasmusine's ability to bully others into changing their class to his liking. -User: SaltiestMeatBall (I am unable to log in as the site seems to think I do not have cookies even though I have re-enabled it hundreds of times)

EDIT: It seems I can log in, but I am automatically logged out if I try to post in this specific discussion.

I'm not GD, but another admin. What page was this accused bullying on? Regarding cookies: I recall talk of some cookies issue on this page. Check one of the last topics and see if that solves your issue.--GamerAim Chatmod.png (talk) 09:34, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
GD, for your reference, here are the diffs for the conversation:
  • Me ([4]) (asked if examples of balance problems needed)
  • SaltiestMeatBall: ([5]) (my questions are "idiotic")
  • Me: [6] (gave some examples, issued warning about civility)
  • SaltiestMeatBall: ([7]) (I'm "rude", "self-righteous" and a "bully").
I'll let you decide if further action needs taking.
I also note that I haven't made any edits to the content of the class. Marasmusine (talk) 09:51, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
Is the class Naruto Ninja Class V2 (5e Class)? Because Mara has made three total contributions to the article and its talk page. Edit 1: Adding a needsbalance template. Nothing about the template was wrong or offensive, but rather as helpful as his templates usually are. Edit 2: Asking why you removed the needsbalance template, and asking if you needed examples on proper class design. Edit 3: Giving you multiple examples of what was wrong and how you could fix those issues, and giving you a light warning for behavioral issues. You then proceeded to argue with him, proclaim to know more about the rules of a site he's moderated for years, said "That is why I don't like you", asserted total control over "your class" despite the disclaimers and nature of a wiki indicating that anyone can edit pages here, and so on.
Even if this isn't the class you mentioned, it certainly incriminates you, not Mara.
Note: I wrote this before an edit conflict with Mara's above post. I am only posting it now for posterity.--GamerAim Chatmod.png (talk) 09:56, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
I like how nothing is about what he has said, but that's fine. I was warned a few times about the treatment users get on this site when they don't agree with the editors and higher-ups. But, this site is the only one with a good enough template set-up to make a class freely. I do not want him on my page anymore. But if that is not possible, I guess I'll just wait for him to eventually delete my class like he's done to others in the past for not abiding by his suggestions. And by suggestions I mean orders. By the way, cookies seems to work. That topic helped. Thanks. SaltiestMeatBall (talk) 10:49, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
EDIT: Also, it technically is my class now. Dathan gave anyone who wanted free reign over the groundwork of the class since he no longer cares to improve it. Which is why I pasted the foundation that was his class and built onto it to finish it. SaltiestMeatBall (talk) 10:52, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
Not to drag this out, but regarding deletions, as long as the page was created in good faith I always wait two weeks between deletion proposal and actual deletion, per policy, so that it can be discussed and/or improved on. All it takes is one editor to say "please give me more time on this." Also, I always restore (or email a copy of) a deleted page on request. Marasmusine (talk) 11:05, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
This is a wiki. You need to be prepared for other people editing the pages you create. At the bottom of every edit box, including the one I am currently typing this message into, there is a message that says "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." If you truly do not want anyone else to edit "your" page, you can move it into your userspace, where other users are not allowed to edit, except for administrators to remove content that breaks sitewide rules. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 13:25, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
EDIT: Please also see this edit assumably by SMB's IP, where he vandalized this talk page by removing all mentions of GD. 13:36, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
Lmao vandalized? You're high. I am "editing" in this talk page because I don't know how to reply to these replies besides going in the Edit to type out the ":::: etc" and my message there. Nor can I seem to find out how elsewhere on the wiki, so I made due for this conversation. I don't even know what a GD even is. I haven't deleted a thing. SaltiestMeatBall (talk) 14:38, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
Actually look at the link. You removed all instances of the phrases "Green Dragon" and "D&D Wiki." I say "you" because that edit came from the same IP that added this section. Please explain how that was preventing you from editing. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 14:58, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
It's true that IP is for your username. I will reply in more detail later. --Green Dragon (talk) 15:54, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
Now see this edit where SMB told us to "go fuck [ourselves]." — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 23:54, 5 August 2017 (MDT)
EDIT: I know I technically am not an admin, but I blocked this guy anyway for a month because he seemed really disruptive. If an actual admin feels I shouldn't have done that, then please let me know, but I don't really see a reason not to. 00:07, 6 August 2017 (MDT)
I think that's justified. Shame he couldn't collaborate instead of throwing his toys out of the pram. What's sad is that there weren't even any edit conflicts on the page, it was all his and Zero's edits; just feedback on the talk page. The whole affair highlights the balancing act we have: If we give a lot of creative freedom, the site gets a reputation for containing a lot of low-quality pages. If we exercise quality control, we get a bad reputation for raining on people's parades. Marasmusine (talk) 02:42, 6 August 2017 (MDT)
To clarify, userpages should normally be used for sandboxes, working on pages before publishing, and other such stuff. We don't intended for subpages to be used to store broken content indefinitely.--GamerAim Chatmod.png (talk) 16:31, 4 August 2017 (MDT)
SaltiestMeatBall, your edits have crossed the line in the course of this short discussion. You have blanked and vandalized pages, and harassed other users. If anyone would consider upholding your opinion, then I would hope to see a model user making a complaint. If you want to keep working on the class in question, without using any normal rules, then please continue this in your userspace. --Green Dragon (talk) 00:22, 7 August 2017 (MDT)
Wait, do we actually allow userpages to store pages indefinitely? Because I've been operating under the old rule that it wasn't allowed >_< --GamerAim Chatmod.png (talk) 06:09, 7 August 2017 (MDT)
I don't see any reason not to allow userpages to store pages indefinitely. Of course if a user is uncertain how to move the page(s) into the Main namespace, then our assistance will be appreciated. These pages certaintly should not be listed on list-pages. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:50, 7 August 2017 (MDT)
I've sometimes marked user subpages as abandoned if the user is long gone. That still gives it another year before it's dealt with. Marasmusine (talk) 10:46, 7 August 2017 (MDT)
It's probably better to mark incomplete and abandonded user sub-pages as such, just so people do not get the wrong idea about such pages. If it is just a reference page for their game, though, I would not do this (e.g. User:Kydo/workspace/items/boats or characters for Wiki Gaming). If the user still cares, they have a whole year then. --Green Dragon (talk) 10:42, 9 August 2017 (MDT)

Recent Block[edit]

I'm confused about your recent block of As far as I can see, this anon's only edit was on Bicycle (Fallout Supplement), where they removed the vandalism. Your revert of that edit in fact re-added the vandalism to the page. Am I missing something here, or is this an oversight? I'll admit anon's edit summary might've appeared as though they committed vandalism, but they didn't.--GamerAim Chatmod.png (talk) 15:21, 11 August 2017 (MDT)

Good catch! You are correct, I had blocked the wrong IP. I resolved this situation now. --Green Dragon (talk) 05:52, 12 August 2017 (MDT)

New Wiki Categories[edit]

Hey Green Dragon! I feel I bugged some other people already and thought I'd try to work with another admin (not because I don't like the other, I just want to get a feel for more than one admin) On my talk page someone I've worked with before on this wiki has asked about creating another wiki category/topic. If you could hop over and help explain the nuances of what's being asked, a few users would appreciate it. OR! if you know a person better for the task, could you ask them please? thanks in advance. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 06:58, 14 August 2017 (MDT)

Good idea! I am looking forward to seeing this information. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:38, 14 August 2017 (MDT)

Username Policy[edit]

Regarding discussion of username policy on this user page, do we strictly follow Wikipedia's policies on usernames not containing references to companies, products or registered trademarks?--GamerAim Chatmod.png (talk) 12:23, 18 August 2017 (MDT)

Thanks for the link. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:20, 20 August 2017 (MDT)

5e OGC[edit]

Thanks to the valiant efforts of Geodude671 and Clockwerk, we have one complete and two partially-complete 5e OGC publications. I went ahead and made a page for all the 5e Open Game Content publications and added it to the main page, but I didn't want to change the sidebar (to be in line with the 3.5e Open Game Content link) without asking first. What do you think?--GamerAim Chatmod.png (talk) 06:21, 20 August 2017 (MDT)

That user is User:Clockwerk66, not Clockwerk, jsyk. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 11:23, 20 August 2017 (MDT)
That's fine if you change the sidebar too. I really wish that the sidebar would allow us to either add indents or multiple links in a single entry. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:11, 20 August 2017 (MDT)
As I was discussing elsewhere, I have looked into this before. There are a range Mediawiki menu extensions that greatly extend the functionality of the sidebar. I don't know how into lets-get-as-many-extensions-as-we-fancy world we are, but I imagine one such as CustomNavBlocks could do what we want. --SgtLion (talk) 02:26, 21 August 2017 (MDT)
I wonder if this has something to do with why GamerAim's edit did not seem to do anything. SgtLion you still have not gotten access from Blue Dragon to a setup wiki, right? He is very busy right now moving. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:53, 21 August 2017 (MDT)
I'd like to note that his edit updated my sidebar immediately, as per my screenshot (would you mind deleting the file history on that, by the way? I made an oopsie.); It's possible the issue is simply to do with Cloudflare's nodes late in updating their caching - And indeed, their current status does say "Cloudflare is experiencing delays processing single-file cache purges via the API". That could be related; Either way I'd bet the edit will come through in a day or two.
Unfortunately nay, I've not received SSH access still, so I can check little else~ --SgtLion (talk) 12:14, 21 August 2017 (MDT)
I should note that it's showing up for me, so I also suspect it's just a matter of time before everyone sees it.--GamerAim Chatmod.png (talk) 13:57, 21 August 2017 (MDT)
Right, I see his change. I talked to Blue Dragon and he'll see if he can grant you access to a setup wiki in the next few days. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:15, 21 August 2017 (MDT)
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