Talk:Main Page/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past discussions. Its contents should be preserved in their current form. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 MediaWiki updated 2 New Stat Block 3 News 4 Scroll Image Thingy 4.1 Image types 5 Vandal 6 Page Display Errors --oh my! 7 Downtime 8 [deleted spam] 9 New Scroll Image 10 Name The Tavern 11 Getting a D&D game going. 12 Templates 13 Meta Pages

[edit] MediaWiki updated

I have recently upgraded this site to MW 1.10.0. As with all updates, this may cause problems. Please let me know if any arise. — Blue Dragon (talk) 13:32, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

Recent changed on 500 gives "Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 2 seconds exceeded in /home/dandwiki-com/public_html/w/includes/Linker.php on line 71". Also, all NPCs do not work (timeout). You should keep a log of the problems that arise with each update and fix them every update because this has been fixed many many times now. You could have just looked at old updates to see what had to be fixed then and do those before finishing the update. --Green Dragon 18:36, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

Okay, those have been fixed. You are correct -- I keep on forgetting that it is set to two by default. That might not need to be enabled anymore seeing that was code optimization for D&D Wiki on the old server. If you want, I can do a few test runs without it. — Blue Dragon (talk) 14:57, 10 May 2007 (MDT)

Is this the update that made diff pages change from the red text for changed content to the strikethroughs and underlines? Cause I kinda hate it, I dunno about you guys though... --Armond (talk/contribs) 14:45, 11 May 2007 (MDT)

It is. –EldritchNumen 16:57, 11 May 2007 (MDT)

Seeing that this update came from MediaWiki it would be a pain to hack it together so it goes red again... Also, even though it looks uglier, I think it is easier to use and becomes more useful. Personally, I have come to like it for it usefulness. --Green Dragon 00:43, 12 May 2007 (MDT)

De gustibus non est disputandum. –Cúthalion (talk) 08:40, 12 May 2007 (MDT)

I have to ask how long it takes people to find the differences here. Took me quite a while. --Armond (talk/contribs) 17:55, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

Hello Armond. I understand your point, I really do—however, there is another factor which should be considered. Both me and Green Dragon are red-green colorblind, and so it was very difficult with the old system to view the changes. I do realize that some of the changes are incredibly difficult to view, such as the one that you pointed out, but overall I believe it makes it easier for all people. I would be willing to hack back the old version depending on what the community wants, however. If this is a large enough issue, it should be put to the vote. — Blue Dragon (talk) 20:09, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

In that case, I think it should stay as it is now. (I feel like an idiot, forgetting about colorblindness. Sorry...) However, I think it would be nicer if we had some sort of color distinguation - my mother tells me that her colorblind co-worker can see red-yellow just fine, so what if we kept the red-yellow and changed the green background to something else? I don't really know what to suggest (blue? purple? orange?), but I'm sure what works for our two top editors will be fine. --Armond (talk/contribs) 20:55, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

I wouldn't mind seeing both types of differentiation. The only thing I didn't like about the previous way was that you couldn't see changes in white space. —Sledged (talk) 22:25, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

The perfect solution (for all but Blue Dragon because he would most likely code it) would be to make a preference in "user-preferences" that would let one choose their style of diff's (color-coded or strikethroughs and lines). How does this idea sound? Would anyone use it? --Green Dragon 23:30, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

In my experience it's nice to have a perfect solution, but it's always worth having a couple backup solutions because you're not overly likely to get the perfect one. I do think that sounds like a good idea (I would certainly use it, and I can see how others would use it too), but I think a couple backup ideas should be considered just in case. --Armond (talk/contribs) 14:45, 17 May 2007 (MDT)

What do you mean by backup? Also, should it be an option for the user to choose the color choices for an edit diff (so, no static colors)? --Green Dragon 22:38, 17 May 2007 (MDT)

Well, suppose Blue Dragon can't code it, for whatever reason. What do we do from there? I'd like to have a plan. As for color choices, that could be helpful if it can be implemented. --Armond (talk/contribs) 15:22, 21 May 2007 (MDT)

I was thinking the colors could be chosen on a user-by-user basis in "My Preferences" (just type in the RGB or whatnot). What do you think about this idea? --Green Dragon 00:13, 1 June 2007 (MDT)

This sounds unnecessarily complex to me. Couldn't we just combine the two features -- new-style font features and old-style colors? That would seem to provide the best of both worlds, and I presume it would be far easier to implement than a whole new set of preferences. (I don't actually agree that preferences would be the perfect solution, as it's added complexity for the user.) –Cúthalion (talk) 14:53, 2 June 2007 (MDT)

[edit] New Stat Block

I've created a new stat block to replace the old. The new one loads faster, allows for deity stats, and has a new system for statting out spellcasting, manifesting, invocation-using, utterances, stances, mysteries, etc. Bellinor Fenjornic (DnD NPC) is my demo for the new stat block. —Sledged (talk) 15:53, 12 May 2007 (MDT)

How did you get it to load so much faster? That is hands down the most useful thing. --Green Dragon 19:36, 12 May 2007 (MDT)

Extensive research over at Meta-Wiki involving the parser functions and the null template. —Sledged (talk) 20:41, 12 May 2007 (MDT)

[edit] News

Does the new template look better than the old table? Also, are the colors bad or really bad and could someone please figure out some better colors? Finally, how should Template:News be organized? Oh, BTW, thanks to PvXwiki for the image and general idea (even though this one is not as well implemented with the inclusion). --Green Dragon 23:11, 17 May 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Scroll Image Thingy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that scroll in the News area on the home page looks suspiciously like a Superior Dervish Rune found in the Guild Wars games. I could confirm this if necessary, but I'd like to know where the person who uploaded it got it. I'm still quite certain thats from Guild Wars, and if so, it's copyrighted. DancingZombies 19:22, 19 May 2007 (MDT)

GD mentions above that it's from PvXwiki. I believe that's one of the pictures that ArenaNet made for general use. I will check with Gcardinal of PvXwiki, who made the site and likely knows where the picture is from. --Armond (talk/contribs) 23:54, 19 May 2007 (MDT)

For reference: [1] [2] --Armond (talk/contribs) 23:57, 19 May 2007 (MDT)

Gcardinal is the site's founder and leader, by the way. --Armond (talk/contribs) 15:23, 21 May 2007 (MDT)

Good news - as per the second link there, we can keep the scroll. It's a darn nice scroll too :D --Armond (talk/contribs) 19:01, 22 May 2007 (MDT)

A couple things. First off, I think maybe it should be removed it is a possible copyright problem. I had no idea it was from Guild Wars (I have never played that game), however now that I know I do not think it would be the best idea to have it. For one it is not D&D related, for another it could lead to problems, and finally I personally do not think it looks as nice as the old class="d20" news table. So, what are the thoughts on this image? Should it stay or should it go? --Green Dragon 19:17, 22 May 2007 (MDT)

I don't think it's a copyright problem. We've used plenty of screenshots from the game, modified or otherwise, without any problems or complaints. If you'd like, I can ask Gaile Gray, their "talk to the community" person (I forget her actual title...) to take a peek and tell us for sure one way or another.

I am kind of fond of the brown headline thing, but I see what you mean about the loss of the "class" lines. Is there a way to re-integrate that, while keeping the headline, box, and so forth? --Armond (talk/contribs) 11:32, 23 May 2007 (MDT)

We will keep it if you ask Gaile Gray and post her reply on dndmedia:Image talk:Hp news.png. Also, what do you think about how News looks now? --Green Dragon 15:26, 23 May 2007 (MDT)

Ah, that's what I was referring to with the brown headline and the class lines. Sorry if that wasn't clear. --Armond (talk/contribs) 09:40, 24 May 2007 (MDT)

So, it looks better now, right? Also, have you contacted Gaile Gray yet? --Green Dragon 10:13, 24 May 2007 (MDT)

Yes, it looks better. As for the image, I've left her a note, but she's not responded yet. (Not surprising, honestly, as she watches at least three fan sites and is the most popular person on all of them.) I'd say give her time, and if I don't get a response in a couple days, I'll move up in the chain of command. --Armond (talk/contribs) 14:33, 24 May 2007 (MDT)

That link above doesn't seem to work, Green Dragon, so I'll post her response below:

The best source of information concerning use of our intellectual property or any Guild Wars asset is contained within our Terms of Use. In that, we make it clear that Guild Wars sites using our art have certain implicit permissions, so that fansites are not required to ask permission each time they expand their pages. However, dndwiki is not a Guild Wars site. Therefore danddwiki must remove the image until such a time as they have written permission from ArenaNet to use the art. (Someone else cannot give that permission; permission must come from the owner of the IP and/or copyright.) Because the site in question is not a Guild Wars site, I would recommend that they use copyright-free art of some kind rather than using Guild Wars or other art specific to a certain property. --Gaile Image:User gaile 2.png 23:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Shame... We could submit a request to ArenaNet, as she says, but in the meantime we have to take it down. I am, however, glad that DancingZombies pointed it out so we could get it cleared up. Thanks for that. --Armond (talk/contribs) 13:28, 27 May 2007 (MDT)

Are you folks able to access the image? I get:

Fatal error: Cannot redeclare dynamicpagelist() in /home/dandwiki-com/public_html/w/extensions/intersections/DynamicPageList2.php on line 568

(pinging Blue Dragon) –Cúthalion (talk) 06:42, 28 May 2007 (MDT)

The problem should be fixed, Cúthalion. Anyway, now that we have to change the image, which image do you think is a better choice, Bible scroll template.gif or Nuvola apps knewsticker.png? Or, even, does someone here have a better alternative? --Green Dragon 08:20, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

For some reason I seem to think that scrolls do better for news images than newspapers. ... --Armond (talk/contribs) 11:12, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

I think the scrolls are classier, but the newspaper is more intuitive. Which one I prefer depends on my mood. –Cúthalion (talk) 08:25, 31 May 2007 (MDT)

We will go with the scroll if the things on it do not mean anything religious. Okay, first off I am not religious and was not raised religious, so I have zero background on religious things. With that in mind please do not take this question as silly, or whatever. So, do the two little images on the Bible scroll template.gif mean anything religious? --Green Dragon 00:10, 1 June 2007 (MDT)

Well, I guess scroll it is. --Green Dragon 11:19, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Image types

... Before I decide, though, does the wiki work better with some image types than others? I know there are a few wikis where I can't upload a few image types at all... --Armond (talk/contribs) 11:12, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

All kinds of images work on D&D Wiki. If a certain kind does not I am sure we can get Blue Dragon (or someone) to make it work here. Both the images from wikipedia will work here. --Green Dragon 17:00, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

I've had problems reading .svg files. So has Dmilewski. Both .gif and .png display fine in my experience, although I understand .gif is generally dispreferred these days in favor of .jpg or .png (or .svg). –Cúthalion (talk) 08:25, 31 May 2007 (MDT)

Okay, it works like this: Highest priority: .svg (these are vector based graphics). The problems that existed with them have been fixed. Second priority: .png. They are very high quality for logos and such. .jpg should only be for photos and non-vector based images. .gif is just low quality in general and should only be used for animated materials. I hope that this helps, — Blue Dragon (talk) 20:28, 11 June 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Vandal

When 204.113.90.117 got done vandalizing this site, he moved on to WikiRPS as 204.113.186.166, deleting content. Recommend you block that one, too. –Cúthalion (talk) 12:51, 25 May 2007 (MDT)

Done. —Sledged (talk) 13:01, 25 May 2007 (MDT)

*sigh* I remember vandals would insert some crude text or link instead of just deleting content. They were far more amusing then. —Sledged (talk) 13:03, 25 May 2007 (MDT)

You $#()*$%!*#@$%)! You can't keep living in the ()@$#)@#$*%)* past. –Cúthalion (talk) 13:08, 25 May 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Page Display Errors --oh my!

It would seem there is a disturbance in The Force --or something to that effect. At any rate, quite a few pages in the Dungeons and Dragons and SRD sections of the wiki seem to be rather out of sorts. For example, DnD Optimized Character Builds, All DnD Races, and SRD:Races (to name a few) all display line after line of php errors rather than their contents (in both Firefox and IE at any rate). Normally I would assume it was just me, but this talk page leads me to think otherwise. Is this just a temporary error or is there something more sinister going on in the nuts n' bolts of the wiki at large? Just wanted to call attention to it; seems a fair bit of a nuisance to casual perusal. --Rakankou 22:43, 27 May 2007 (MDT)

I get the same errors, along with others (see #Scroll Image Thingy and User talk:Blue Dragon#*** WikiRPS is inaccessible ***. It may be coincidence, but we had a vandal attack a couple of days ago. –Cúthalion (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2007 (MDT)

I believe it is an error with the DPL2.php script by Blue Dragon. I have alerted him to this page; hopefully he knows what is going on. --Green Dragon 10:31, 28 May 2007 (MDT)

This was caused by an upgrade to DPL 1.2.0. I have just downgraded for now, and will look into why the problems were occuring later on a test wiki. Sorry for all of these issues, and I am sorry that all of the wikis that were running off of the same extension code base but I did not modify LocalSettings.php on were completely inaccessible. Again, I am sorry. — Blue Dragon (talk) 10:54, 28 May 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Downtime

D&D Wiki experienced minor downtime today, which fixed the minor downtime last night. I have changed D&D Wiki from being hosted at 166.70.232.84 to 166.70.99.90, and this should work quite a bit better. Let me know if there are any issues. — Blue Dragon (talk) 15:14, 31 May 2007 (MDT)

[edit] [deleted spam]

Hm... sounds like a good time to update CAPTCHA. — Blue Dragon (talk) 16:35, 13 June 2007 (MDT)

I hate spam. (Actually, I used to like the canned meat product when I was a kid, as long as it was fried until it was brown and crunchy. I probably wouldn't like it any more, though.)

Does CAPTCHA prevent anonymous posting? –Cúthalion (talk) 21:04, 20 June 2007 (MDT)

[edit] New Scroll Image

I believe that this new scroll image looks horrible. It is by far too compressed, and it seems to hurt my eyes. Any other opinions? — Blue Dragon (talk) 12:46, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

I used to agree. However now that you made it smaller... It looks weird still. --Green Dragon 12:47, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Name The Tavern

Hello everyone,

To create a place for general chat and banter, please go to The Tavern and help naming the place! --Mkill 01:51, 20 June 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Getting a D&D game going.

I was wondering if anyone knew any good sites for getting a game together or finding games, or any good programs. We might also want to ask those sites if they want to become affiliated with us. I also wanted to see if any of you wanted to play. --DeadlyNightShade 13:41, 22 June 2007 (MDT)

I do not know of any, sorry... --Green Dragon 20:08, 30 July 2007 (MDT)

Start from here -- Flession 04:50, 17 August 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Templates

There are a lot of templates in use at D&D Wiki, most of them rather unpleasant to the eye. Open a page like SRD:Skill Focus (Feat). 4 lines of relevant text, 3 templates, 2 of them with the ugly stop hand image (see left). If you see the page for the first time, it's like a shock. What did I do wrong? What am I doing here? Compare to the same content on d20srd.org. Obviously, it's not necessary to decorate every page with boxes. I suggest we merge the 3 boxes that are currently found on every SRD page into one, remove the stop hand and give it a more pleasant colour scheme.

I have a similar issue with the "Balance" box. Look at a class page like Overlord (DnD Class). I have to scroll 1 1/2 pages before I see any text content, because there is a TOC, the author box, an image, and that superfluous Balance box. We should move that Balance box to the bottom of pages. If I look at a class, I don't want to see the balance rating first, I want to get a general image of what it's about. The balance box can be at the page footer. If you want to add the balance rating at the top of the page, use the space on the right next to the page title. --Mkill 21:22, 9 August 2007 (MDT)

Before I respond I would like to say that the Overlord (DnD Class) is not formatted right; the image is not correct, etc. If the image was correctly formatted the text would start almost right away. Please use examples of correctly formatted classes, thanks. As a side comment the images on that class are very very nice, kudos if you made em :). --Green Dragon 22:36, 9 August 2007 (MDT)

About the templates, I agree. We can merge them/make them better. Please post any ideas you have here, thanks. --Green Dragon 21:40, 10 August 2007 (MDT)

I did. Merge the templates, remove the picture, blank out the OGL Top template, change the colour. Now it's "the community's" turn. --Mkill 06:53, 12 August 2007 (MDT)

I kind of meant an example... Also, as a starter, I am looking at changing our Template:Admin Locked Page to wikirps:Template:Restricted's look. What do you think about this idea? Also, I feel that Template:Admin Locked Page is a bit of a silly name, and could be re-named... --Green Dragon 13:57, 12 August 2007 (MDT)

The admin locked template is okay as it blends in the color scheme, I'm more worried about the other two. What could work is use the admin locked template as basis, but a horizontal line in and add the "this page is under OGL / content from SRD" announcement there. Then all you need to do is change the footer template in all SRD pages. Well, I did plan overhaul the SRD so all pages contain a footer template, but I got stopped in the process. --Mkill 03:25, 13 August 2007 (MDT)

Do you mean something like this?

This material is published under the Open Game License v1.0a. The GNU Free Documentation License does not apply to this page.

or this?

This material is published under the Open Game License v1.0a. The GNU Free Documentation License does not apply to this page.

To replace Template:OGL Top? --Green Dragon 16:09, 13 August 2007 (MDT)

Both are better (though I prefer the former). If you don't like the "stop" image, why not replace it with a D20? It sorta fits in better with the SRD than a stop sign. What do you think? To be honest, I am more interested in content than templates, but it is nice to have nice-looking pages... I would like to say that I like the "balance, author and contents first" formatting, so I am happy to keep it. --Sam Kay 07:52, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

Okay, how does this look? Better?

This material is published under the Open Game License v1.0a. The GNU Free Documentation License does not apply to this page.

Should the image be larger or is it okay like it is? --Green Dragon 12:13, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

Thats ok, though I prefer this one:

This material is published under the Open Game License v1.0a. The GNU Free Documentation License does not apply to this page.

Although either is just as good... --Sam Kay 12:18, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

I agree with Sam Kay. The thing I like about that version is that it is readable, it doesn't look like "you shouldn't be looking at this page", and it shows the affiliation with the SRD and OGL by using the d20 image. --Aarnott 12:23, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

Prettier. I like. --Dmilewski 12:39, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

Okay, which one should replace Template:OGL Top the smaller one or the larger one? Personally I like the smaller one so it will be less obtrusive... Ideas? --Green Dragon 13:40, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

I took the second one and reduced the amount of bold text. Looks good now. --Mkill 21:32, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

This material is published under the Open Game License v1.0a. The GNU Free Documentation License does not apply to this page.

→Reverted indentation to one colon

How about this... Instead of making a huge noticable template for the top we have something like

This material is published under the OGL. →More

or

This material is published under the OGL. →More

where "More" links to a "span id" in the page brought by Template:OGL Bottom? --Green Dragon 02:28, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

Yeah... those ones would look good at the end of each SRD page. In the end, it is up to you, Green Dragon. --Sam Kay 04:17, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

Wait, so you prefer those for bottom templates? I was thinking they could replace Template:OGL Top and then we could work on the bottom after we have decided the top... I am a fan of having the smaller of the last two choices replace Template:OGL Top. Ideas? --Green Dragon 10:38, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

Less space is always good. Pick the smaller one. --Aarnott 10:47, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

Do we really need a top AND a bottom template? Why not just have a top template? Dunno. If we really need a bottom and top template, why not have:

This material is published under the Open Game License v1.0a. The GNU Free Documentation License does not apply to this page.

SRD stuff, yada yada yada, ect...

This material is published under the OGL. →More

Any good?--Sam Kay 10:51, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

I like the top to be small so you can get straight to the text. In fact, it might be preferable to do something like:

At the top, and on the bottom (Mkill's):

This material is published under the Open Game License v1.0a. The GNU Free Documentation License does not apply to this page.

The top could link to the bottom part. That way there is little white space at the top, but it identifies the page as an SRD page. --Aarnott 10:55, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

Here is what I think may look good. Just having the D20 Systems Logo on the top at 40px (Aarnott's Idea) and then on the bottom having a slightly modified Mkills' idea that looks like

This material is published under the Open Game License v1.0a. The GNU Free Documentation License does not apply to this page. →More Information

Where "More Information" would link to something that says what the current Template:OGL Bottom says. What do you guys think about this idea? --Green Dragon 18:42, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

I prefer a single, bottom box. I've always thought the top mark redundant. The focus on opening an article should always be the article itself. If you must put a d20 logo on the page, put it in the top-right. --Dmilewski 18:48, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

I absolutely agree with Dmilewski. The OGL_Top template should only place the D20 logo in the top right corner, and there should be one box at the bottom saying 1. this is SRD material 2. it is under OGL 3. this page is locked. --Mkill 07:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

Agreed (though I guess it was really the point I was saying before). The D20 logo will help identify a page as an SRD page for a user, which I think is important. The bottom footer is unobtrusive and gives the required info. --Aarnott 08:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

Yeah. --Sam Kay 08:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

Looks like we have a community agreement. So the OGL_Top template would be changed to

[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|left|45px]]

--Mkill 08:47, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

The top template has been changed, however to [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|right|45px]]. Now for the bottom template... ideas? --Green Dragon 10:46, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

→Reverted indentation to one colon

I do like the d20 logo looks, but I question whether or not it's appropriate. Not everything that uses the d20 System is under OGL. Given that there are a number of gamers that keep thinking anything that is OGC is part of the SRD (such as the UA, and the S&S products), I worry that using the d20 logo to identify OGLed material might be promoting the misconception. —Sledged (talk) 11:15, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

Oh, I see what you mean. I completely forgot that non-SRD items also use that template... Arrg, this is becoming a lot harder that it first looked. Maybe we could change all non-SRD items that use that template to use a different one (or none at all?) and keep it on the SRD items? Or we could take the easy route and just change the template to something that works for everything..? --Green Dragon 11:32, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

I'd change the non-SRD stuff. Have them use a different template... Because they are different! --Aarnott 11:51, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

Or what we could do is just change Template:OGL Top to say something like "This material is published under the OGL. in the right hand corner of the screen. That would be the easy way to make this all work... --Green Dragon 14:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

It has been changed. --Green Dragon 11:25, 18 August 2007 (MDT)

[edit] Meta Pages

I say that we should move the link to the Meta Pages off the Main Page and onto the sidebar (under navigation). The reason I see this as a good idea is because the average user goes here for content, not for seeing the infrastructure of D&D Wiki. I find that the average user has no need for Meta Pages while a more consistant user will use it (and can find it on the sidebar). I also do not want the Main Page getting cluttered. --Green Dragon 12:04, 10 August 2007 (MDT)

I agree. I have only ever used it twice, and it is really only needed occaisionally. --Sam Kay 13:35, 10 August 2007 (MDT)

Done and done. --Green Dragon 14:09, 10 August 2007 (MDT)