Talk:Jedi (5e Class)
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Hello. To whomever is starting to make this class, please dont do this to yourself. Let me take over and give me your opinion Im not trying to be rude or anything but a jedi dosent cast spells. The range of powers a Jedi has at thier disposal is far better and more extsensive than you realize. Trust me. .Bannanameds (talk) 09:31, 30 December 2016 (MST)
- Use spells if they have the effect that you need. Psionics in D&D use spells, but have the psionics tag to tell you its psionic rather than a spell. If a jedi can lift something remotely using the force, you may as well give them mage hand rather than duplicating the effect under a different name.
- The force is space magic. When Kenobi says "these are not the droids you're looking for", he's basically casting suggestion. Have them eschew material components. Marasmusine (talk) 03:12, 1 January 2017 (MST)
Do you plan to do a Jedi lightsabre? --Redrum 17:02, 4 January 2017 (MST)
To whomever made this page. . .
I have been working on my own Jedi class for a Star Wars 5e game. In my version i had a set of lightsaber forms all built up, going all the way to Juyo and Vapaad, but I do think yours are better and a bit more well thought out. Do you mind if I take these for my own use, and modifying some of them, as well as giving you credit for their creation?
- I don’t mind at all. It’s great to hear you like it. I’d enjoy seeing what you come up with so let me know when you’ve got something up. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 16:31, 23 July 2018 (MDT)
Of course, I'll throw it at you. My goal was to sort of tackle some of the concepts from the old 3.0 d20 star wars (not saga), while also making it somewhat my own. Thanks man!
Capstone Feature Title
Missile Defense Update
That was a great add. Thanks PJP!07:48, 19 July 2019 (MDT)
I had this written basically as a spell and now its been what I consider a considerable nerf. Did playtesting show as written it was too good? I'd question the SRD Spell its mirrored after if so.07:03, 31 October 2019 (MDT)
I am curious if the last edit (click here) was a result of playtesting. The edit is interesting and increases the cost of many powers, which are fairly similar to the SRD spells. 09:13, 18 November 2019 (MST)
The base rule in 5e has a creatures "base Natural Armor" (this is in quotes as there are many asterisks that affect it as such) is 10 + Dexterity modifier. Did you intend to make their Unarmored Defense like that of a monk, 10 + Dexterity modifier + Wisdom Modifier? Or did you intend a different approach to the class and that's merely an accident? I only ask because there are similarities between the classes and don't want to step on any toes. If this was the actual intended purpose, then I apologize for sounding rude, but maybe it would be best to merely remove that "class skill"?
- The current iteration is as intended. Jedi are like monks from my perspective, and one could play a Jedi as a base monk class but I thought I'd reflavor the monk for a full jedi class.
- To try and compact all this into a subclass would have been too much. Would I prefer separate features? Yes. But I also don't want to remove features and leave the class hanging with nothing, as would be the case if I removed features already present in the game. 05:30, 22 November 2019 (MST)
Sith/ Force Phantom
The phantom gets 1 attack total or 1 attack per round?
- I believe I wrote it to be one attack. Similar to pets/companions. Have you used this and known it to not be fair? In my head, the jedi still has an action to attack, and this thing getting one attack per round is helpful, but not (too) strong. How about you? 17:54, 16 January 2020 (MST)
I have just recently made a spell that works well for the Jedi telekinesis, so I put it on this class but I don't know how to properly hyperlink it.
Consular/ Jedi Class Upgrades
Hi ~BigShotFancyMan glad this page is still alive, going to change and add a few things to help buff the Consular and Jedi class as a whole a bit. I'm currently playtesting as Consular in a DnD 5e campaign in a party in a world that's basically Napoleonic era of technology. I love what the Jedi class has become over the years and am incredibly passionate for the class. For roleplay and diplomacy, Consular is absolutely amazing, love playing the diplomatic role. The general idea I am going for is Consular as the diplomatic face but a force to be reckoned with force power wise. Yoda comes to mind as an exmaple. I've been having major issues so sorry in advance if it gets too long explaining.
-Force Powers Known
This needs to be done away with or changed. Only 2 force powers to use as a Consular at lv 6 basically gimps you for a campaign. Talking with my DM, I had to do away with force power limits just to remain afloat in combat. Even assuming one of those powers were force choke, that's only 12 attacks at lv 6 at 5D6 damage, average is 17-18 damage, 204 damage over 12 rounds, assuming of course you hit every single force choke which is unlikely.
Considering most games over the years I've played in will have enemy groups equal or larger than party size, you quickly run out in a single encounter. This gets compounded if you're running from encounter to encounter. Your lightsaber only does an average of 6-7 damage at lv 6 on 2D6. Leaving you as mincemeat for a 4-5 CR 2 Druids. This ironically would make me weaker than even the Ranger class who can easily double that at lv 6 with no magic items or even min-maxed. I'm not messing with it on this page but that represents a serious issue. So others reading this please take heed and try this method.
Considering how low the force points are in comparison to what they were raised to I don't think getting rid of force power limits will severely unbalance anything, especially when most of the low cost skills are utility skills. Skills that luckily don't gimp other players playing as Jack of All Trades. Other Jedi subclasses would be unaffected since they can't even use major force powers like Rend or Force Destruction with out using every single point until Lv 6. and Lv. 13 respectively. I agree 100% with the force power cost raise but limits need to be taken off. Luckily whoever raised the cost of force powers was aware enough to raise the cost of combat powers significantly so Jedi don't simply dominate a game even without force limits.
- Force Power List: Some Jedi powers needed to be added and some buffed slightly. Force Pull, Force Push and Jedi Mage Hand come to mind. I'll be using some of the abilities in Battlefront 2 and Clone Wars as a concept start to add things.
-Lv 7 Consular Feature: Of course getting rid of force limits means Consular needs to be changed. The most creative way I've thought up so far as a stopgap is making the 7th level a new Class Feature in additional to a normal additional feature. Upon reaching Lv 7, you gain Force Recharge. "Allowing the force to flow through you revitalizes you and pushes you further." You gain two attacks per turn, +2 to AC, +5 to Attack and Damage rolls, Spell Ranges are doubled, Spell attacks change to D8 attack die, Force Points recharge, Spell DC raises by 3, spell attack bonus is doubled and your movement speed increases 5 times your wis modifier + dex modifier. For every 2 rounds this ability is active, starting from when it is first activated, you gain 4 levels of exhaustion at the end of the second round and an 1 additional exhaustion each extra round the ability is active.
If the ability is canceled halfway through, you only take half of the total exhaustion levels. If exhaustion reaches 6 levels and death occurs, only wish or true resurrection can revive this character. Once the ability ends, all Force points are gone until the next long rest. Force points are halved until meditation over a long rest, after the meditation this ability recharges in 30 days. Only meditation can undo the levels of exhaustion. Meditation cancels the effects of a long rest. At Lv 11, you only gain 2 levels of exhaustion after 2 rounds, at Lv 15, 1 level of exhaustion after two rounds.
The roleplay point being that a Consular would want to end a fight as quickly and harshly to force people on the road to peace. Or to save their allies in a quick fight. In-game, it lets a Consular rise to the occasion at risk of permanently killing their character. While the other Jedi subclasses have multiple opportunities for epic-level moments, consulars would only be once every 10-20 sessions. This could work as a lv 7 Jedi class feature as well.
I'll playtest more and report back. The campaign I'm currently in is a long one where Lvs come once every month or so I'll learn a lot.
- The people that actually play test blow me away with their information. I am glad you can corroborate the anon users edit of increasing points. I doubt removing a limit on known powers is detrimental. It was included since it is the traditional way powers (spells) are handled.
- I am skeptical about the new power idea but understand the need for one, and hear the cry for climatic epic hero moment stuff that the other subclasses have. I am bit out of touch with the class, but think I need this motivation to improve the class.
- How does the Jedi fair with others in the party? Does your consular steal the show? Are there other subclasses playing too that simply outshine fighter/barbarian classes? I really appreciate you taking the time for this and look forward to what we can do to improve the class! Red Leg Leo (talk) 18:22, 24 June 2020 (MDT)
No problem! The powers I have added look fairly balanced from my view and I'll be testing them next Wednesday to check. The Consular plays excellently as a diplomatic character especially when roleplayed as one who wants to avoid conflict at all costs. Force power wise, the Consular is tilted more to using just force powers to end a fight. But it's persuasiveness allows it to get enemies to surrender. I've used it quite a few times as well as today to end a major battle halfway through with an offer of surrender.
I've also added a large amount of Star Wars quotes ranging from Clone Wars to the Sequel Trilogy to even quotes from Star Wars Legends to excite every type of Star Wars fan.
Jedi as a class fairs pretty well. Another guy was playing as a Guardian Jedi at first but moved to the Artificer class. Wanted a more utility based character I believe but the Guardian Jedi was balanced as we played. The only other fighter (subclass Samurai) in the party is min-maxed so may not count but easily remains as the DPS/tank of the group. He can dish out more damage, to more enemies and hold the line with more hp. Paladin isn't outclassed either with the use of Smite and lay on hands constantly.
Jedi Class Changes
Realized I forgot to make a change to the force powers limit. To basically get rid of it.
To the guy changing it, I understand the lower force point costs for maneuvers from a lightsaber only Jedi build perspective but why get rid of the quotes and lower suggestion costs? I'm getting rid of the power limits so having Jedi recharge full on short rest would be breaking things. I understand that Jedi are like the Monks class but that's where the resemblance ends. Their a class combined from Monk, Sorcerer, Rogue, and Fighter. The powers Jedi can cast put them on par with Wizards and Sorceresses and their fighting ability with dex based Fighters. Seems also strange to get rid of most of the flavor text. Also being able to cast suggestion five times at Lv 5 seems like it would be fairly overpowered if you recharge every hour, especially for a consular build that's 10 suggestion spells I could use as a diplomat role at lv 5 every hour and it gets worst the more I level! Seems like it would absolutely destroy a a campaign from that alone.
As a Consular character cast Force destruction, 10d6+50, average 75 damage, in a 10 foot radius every hour at lv 6. This I'll be changing back with a few other things since I'd mean could solo a Young Brass Dragon at lv 6, combine Force recharge and I could solo a Fire Giant. A lv 10 Jedi would be on par with a lv 15 in any other class. In a party of people with a Jedi, a DM would have to throw multiple adult dragons just to have a chance to challenge them.
Tying the maneuvers to dex instead of force points is a smart idea so not touching that.
Also as an aside. The quotes help people reading this page visualize what type of Jedi they're going for and what is means to be Force-sensitive. There's still a lot of people in this world who won't be knowledgeable about much or even anything Star Wars. For a lot of them their only knowledge may only be the sequel films but they're still DnD players who want to play. Introduce them to the wider Star Wars world y'know? Little lore, little campy humor. You'd be surprised how many people don't know Keira or Revan but have read the most of Legends. (TheGamer (talk) 13:48, 4 July 2020 (EST)
(Adding changes made)
-Force power limit removed
-Some quotes added back in.
-Force Recharge buffed
-Guardian subclass buffed
Main charges at past lv 11-12. Jedi character should start feeling the same scaling of power the other official classes get. A Lv 20 Jedi should be understandably on a God-tier level, similar to lv 20 Fighters and Wizards even assuming no magical items are given.
- I didn't like any of the anon edits. Also, I've saved a version of this that enjoy a lot. I doubt I spend much time on it anymore as I feel it was complete after your initial edit and advice given. Red Leg Leo (talk) 10:39, 6 July 2020 (MDT)
Checking back in because my Jedi was out of commission for 2 weeks. Most of these anon edits have started putting Jedi back into the opposite direction towards power creep. There's a lot of utility in the Jedi class at this time. It's not the Barb class, you don't just hit things till they die. You knock things prone and then hit them till they die. A character at Lv 5 can now do 10 Force Chokes that have 5d4 damage at level 5 and attack twice a turn. The force power increased has turned a lv 5 Jedi Guardian into a lv 5 Fighter and lv 5 Sorcerer. Lv 5 Jedi should NOT be on the same level as a lv 10 multiclass. That's not even telling how Consular class was effectively made useless.
To the Anons editing, you realize the more overpowered you make Jedi, the less likely it is your DM will put up with it? All it takes is you ruining a single session, the DM killing you off in the next session and refusing homebrew. Most DMs dont even accept home brew for this reason. Magic users are limited by spell amount, Jedi are not. You can Force Freeze one turn then do 10 different powers the next 10 turns. That's ontop of how powerful Guardian and Sentinel already are. I don't want this to turn into an edit war so if you're making sweeping changes to balancing. Please explain your reasoning on the talk page.
Otherwise nearly all these changes are being reverted. Mage hand has been buffed so that even Lv 1 Jedi will feel different. Guardian with three attacks at Lv 11 is fine. Guardian that can use Force destruction twice for over 200 damage and keep force choking is not. Want to use the only the Force? Play Consular. Think of it this way. Lv 1-4: Padawan (Young Ashoka) Lv 5-10: Jedi Knight (Anakin Skywalker) Lv 11-15 Jedi Master (Mace Windu) Lv 16-20 Jedi Grandmaster (Yoda)
Force power amount lowered to just above previous. Low level Jedi should still feel unique. Drops off at lv 4. Keeps Consular's Force abilities unique.
Consular given a slight buff in force points. Wis modifier added to double force points at each level. Force powers like Force Destruction will be available to it at Lv 5, though it would cost all its force points. Balances the advantages Guardian and Sentinel now have from force point increase.
Powers of some force abilities increased. No you can't use Suggestion or Dominate Person at Lv 1. Those are easily Lv 6-8 Spells and you'd only be able to use them once till a rest in another class.
Some quotes edited.
(Future Notice) In the meantime since I'm currently in a long campaign as a Consular Jedi (Lv 7 currently) and everyone is currently inside due to the world situation. I'll take the time to watch over the page for future players who want to bring a Jedi into their own games. Currently in a perfect balance where my character can have their own epic moments (Using Force Recharge to kill 10 enemies in 4 turns to stop a TPK) but also let other classes shine. (TheGamer (talk) 12:09, 29 July 2020 (EST)
- Not it doesn't. The page has tags. It doesn't show up on a user created dpl for misc tags that are redundant or vague. Red Leg Leo (talk) 12:13, 17 December 2020 (MST)