User talk:Marasmusine/Archive 3

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Its contents should be preserved in their current form. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 2 |
Archive 3 |

Removed page[edit]

Can you please tell me how I did not address the problem with the Urges page? I added a Will save, as well as penalties. That is more than what was on there before...M149307 (talk) 13:12, 10 November 2013 (MST)

Sure. The primary effect doesn't "have a numeric effect on a character's specific capabilities" - what it does is try to enforce a particular kind of character behaviour. Secondly, I don't believe the situation would be common enough to qualify as a significant drawback, unless the DM deliberately arranges plenty of high drops. Thirdly, in this situation where you have lots of 3rd storey drops, you'll have the PC pushing another PC off the edge, which might be funny once, and they it becomes incredibly disruptive.
Now, I'm not saying that a player can't roleplay this compulsion, but it shouldn't be using the Flaw mechanics. Marasmusine (talk) 01:24, 11 November 2013 (MST)
Okay, I've moved the text to 100 Character Compulsions (DnD Other). Marasmusine (talk) 01:35, 12 November 2013 (MST)

Marasmusine you removed the Large Blade Master from this wiki. I now do not have refernce for my character. Please email me (raven blade) at [redacted] I need the information you deleted, because I was playing that character class.

Okay, you'll find the class at User:Ravenblade/Large Blademaster (3.5e Class)‎, I'll leave it up for two weeks. I'm amazed your DM let's you play this class, every single thing about it is wrong. Marasmusine (talk) 01:54, 4 December 2013 (MST)

The Gauntlet of Auskavvos[edit]

Sorry, I could not find a better way to contact you. The deleted page "the gauntlet of Auskavvos" is used in a dungeon my party is currently in. Can you please instaurate it to the conflagrant Appulse Wikia with any felicitous emendations?

I need to know either the exact page name, or who the original contributor was. I can't seem to find it right now. Marasmusine (talk) 01:54, 7 October 2013 (MDT)

What is wrong with the class exactly? It looked fine to me as well as a few others. Works great with human.

What class are you talking about? Marasmusine (talk) 16:55, 4 December 2013 (MST)

lol first.[edit]

I am proud to be the first post on this new talk page. Keep on rocking, Marasmusine!

Anywho, I found it funny I was temporarily banned for censoring one of the the posts on what is now Archive1. After clearing it up with Green Dragon, it's all good now.

But, in other news, I am still working on my DigiDuncan's Even-More-Precise Size Chart!, now trying to add a STR modifier. Ugh, balance issues. Would you mind pitching in with some of those? Feel free to directly edit the chart itself.

(On a side note, D&D Wiki needs a WYSIWYG editor; especially for tables.)

Thanks for being an amazing contributor to this community!

As a side note here, I can't access your game, Ataxia! I wanted to try it out, but click the link throws a 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable.

Additionally, a 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Which sounds bad.

WOAH, side side note here! Your name is Duncan?

  • Ataxia II is programmed by Duncan Timiney in Blitz3D...

So is mine! World's a small place, eh?

Also, (last edit tonight, (EST), I swear), will you ever go back to making 3.5e stuff? That's what I play, and you make some cool stuff.

Have a great night, morning, afternoon, whatever,

~Digi (~DigiDuncan! (talk) 18:11, 15 September 2013 (MDT))

Gosh, it's been a long time since I looked at Ataxia! I'll see if I can sort out the download link, but it won't be for at least a week as my development computer is away at repair. Does Ataxia II work for you? I need to recompile it with a smaller window, the bottom of the screen isn't visible on smaller laptop screens. I was never very good at graphics or user interfaces, so I've gone back to making text-based games.
As for 3.5e, I'm not really sure what to do with it. I sold all my books apart from the core books. I've got an "ogre jelly" monster somewhere that could go up, and two races that aren't particularly interesting from a half-thought-out campaign. The world was an interesting shape but that can be a systemless campaign seed.
Thanks for your encouragement, Marasmusine (talk) 00:25, 16 September 2013 (MDT)
Some time ago I uploaded my Ogre Jelly to the d20 NPC wikia[1]. Marasmusine (talk) 00:36, 16 September 2013 (MDT)
Ataxia II works for me, but I not only want to play the original, but the one based off the edition I play. Were are your text based games? You need a website. isn't taken yet!
DFTBA, ~Digi. ~DigiDuncan! (talk) 03:54, 16 September 2013 (MDT)
Crystal Orb Adventures can be found at
It's an earlier piece of work, not well programmed, but it does have a complete 3.5e-style combat system and a procedurally generated map to wander around. Unfortunately I spent too much time programming in feats and weapons, instead of proper content like quests and monsters, so it's a bit lacklustre. It does have a good framework for factions, shopkeepers, relations and things, just never got round to it. First thing you should do is type 'help', there's loads of commands.
There's Crystal Orb Adventures 2. I tried to do a linear map, but randomly generated monsters and powers, and instead of typing in commands, you can use the mouse to click in a list of available commands. Good framework, has potential, again I got bogged down in the details (overly realistic combat) instead of adding content. I can upload it if you want to see it, but you'd need to either install python or wait for me to create an executable.
I've just started another python project that I'm determined to keep simple, this time: a simpler combat system but focus on content. Not ready to play yet, all you can do is wander around a simple map. Back to text input, too. Marasmusine (talk) 12:05, 16 September 2013 (MDT)
Oops, nearly forgot, Ataxia is at


Paradox was my favorite race, and was playable (for me at least). Could you restore it, even if just on User:DigiDuncan/Paradoxes_(3.5e_Race) ? I'll maintain it! I'll make it great!

Thank you so much.

~DigiDuncan! (talk) 13:30, 18 September 2013 (MDT)

Sure, you'll find it at User:DigiDuncan/Paradoxes (3.5e Race). If you can improve the quality of writing and fix the traits, it could go back into mainspace. Marasmusine (talk) 01:04, 19 September 2013 (MDT)
Thank you so much! ~DigiDuncan! (talk) 04:04, 19 September 2013 (MDT)

Alternian Trolls Editing![edit]

Hey, I stumbled across the truly awful Alternian Troll (3.5e Race) homebrew page, and I'm working on making it not completely horrible! Since you're apparently the dude who noticed how much it sucked first, if you could come by and take a look at what I'm doing, that'd be super-appreciated. :3 ItsAlana (talk) 15:02, 28 September 2013 (MDT)

Regarding Corruption and Moe Weakness[edit]

Thank you for your temporary restoration of those two flaws. In an explanation, since you seemed moderately incredulous as to how Corruption could be one of my favorite flaws, the "lack of table" had everything to do with it. The entire purpose behind that flaw was that it was *meant* to be vague. It was never incomplete - the effects of the flaw were meant to be determined by the dungeon master when the player's dice landed on the number that was cursed for that session. While I suppose that has the unfortunate effect of not having a nice and easy table for people to reference what was appropriate and what was not, it permitted for an add depth to gameplay similar to the addition of critical fumble and critical success tables, except moreso in that through its flexibility it allows for the curse's effect to change based on the context of the situation. As the example given - a 19 when 19 is cursed may well result in a critically successful blow against your enemy - but the enemy might fall backwards, knocking over a candle and lighting up the ritual sigil as the cult had intended.

I would then argue that it was a mistake to label the flaw as incomplete, as the alleged "need for a table" would defeat its purpose in shifting the effects based upon context. The flaw was complete as it was, and while I would not say that it adhered strictly to the guidelines that flaws were meant to adhere to, the fact that it provides for an addition of a mechanic that makes games more interesting should not be discounted. If such a thing should not belong within the flaws table, then I would argue that there perhaps is cause for the creation of a "Non-Traditional Flaws" page or something similar along those lines.

(As for moe-weakness, that was just fun. Balance be damned, I often had players taking a one on the save it provided simply because they thought the effects were amusing.)

In my opinion, a page on this wiki needs to say something more than "If you roll a particular number then something something make it up yourself."
Moe Weakness (3.5e Flaw) needs to go somewhere else, it's not significant enough to be a flaw: The "moe factor" is vague enough that you could pick something that is unlikely to come into play often (or at all). Marasmusine (talk) 02:25, 29 September 2013 (MDT)
Because a DM would allow that. Perhaps I should put a giant banner saying: "Hey, if you have enough correspondence with your DM to allow 3rd party house rules, don't be a complete arse and pick something rare and obscure!"? Your rulings, quite frankly, seem to be viewing Dungeons and Dragons less as a game in which you interact with other people, and more as a mathematical exercise that you do all by your lonesome.
That is a strawman argument. Where have I ever suggested that the game doesn't involve interacting with people? If you want to roleplay having a moe weakness then go right ahead. But the Flaws system is a mechanical system. It grants your character a bonus Feat in exchange for a numeric penalty that should come in to play, at the very least, once every three encounters or so. If I pick, to use your example, maids as my moe factor - how often are the penalties going to provide an actual drawback? Marasmusine (talk) 04:21, 29 September 2013 (MDT)
The part where you went "If you roll a particular number then something something make it up yourself," actually, when there were clear instructions of "the drawback depends on context." But ignoring that, I imagine that you'd run into maids pretty much any time you went to your patron Lord's Castle; it's not gonna clean itself, after all! And considering that you are compelled not to ignore them, well...
And then, to make things worse, suddenly one of the maids that you were dropping the spaghetti around turns out to be an evil ninja - and oh snap! One of the other Moe Factors you had to take was female ninjas! Crap, crap, crap - she's got a decent charisma too! Make a Will Save DC 20 or be Fascinated by the Moe! I don' care if you're immune to mind effecting, this bypasses that!
When I said "If you roll a particular number..." I was referring to the Corruption flaw, to which you said that the DM has to come up with the effects. That's completely removed from me saying there's no interaction.
For the maid example of Moe, maids would have to turn up once every three encounters or so, every campaign, and provide some kind of threat. What you've described sounds like a one-off. It's fine for roleplaying, but its not worth a Feat. Marasmusine (talk) 05:36, 29 September 2013 (MDT)
Fair enough on corruption, though I still disagree on principle.
That is why you're forced to take six moe factors, to which the negatives apply to all, and compound if you make the save versus fascinate. So let's say your moe factors are: Butlers, Men With Beards, Male Paladins, Men in Shining Armor, Hunks, and Men Wearing Monocles. You take the listed penalties any time you come up against one of those, save versus fascinate any time that they have two or more of those, and can't attack those unless they attack first. Would that level of penalty be worth a feat?
Well, here's two tests. 1) Pick two random published adventure modules. In these how often would the player suffer a drawback using your example (not including the Charisma-based checks per UA:Character Flaws)? 2) Assume the PC is min/maxing, can she make a Moe Factor that is unlikely to come into play at all? Marasmusine (talk) 01:04, 30 September 2013 (MDT)
Added a few lines to it to make Rule 16 (Don't Be a Smartass) a part of the flaw. It is now clear that "15000 lbs human" and "Humans over 9 feet tall" are not acceptable Moe Factors. Doing things like taking "Male Angels" as a Moe Factor in a romp through the Nine Hells have also been labeled as "right out," and a line was added to say "keep things relevant," as well as clarify that shapeshifters can take advantage of a character's Moe Factor.
I added {{abandoned}} to the page since it is open to fiat. --Green Dragon (talk) 03:20, 29 September 2013 (MDT)
And I (hopefully) brought the flaw up to snuff by making it require six Moe Factors that can apply to one person, instead of just one.

4e Class Standards[edit]

Hey! I responded to your preload on Talk:Essentials Class Preload, which would require some changes to the 4e structure. I am wondering if you could supply some advice and any thoughts on the 4e structure there please. --Green Dragon (talk) 03:01, 2 October 2013 (MDT)

Hi GD, I'm in the middle of moving house at the moment but I'll give it a good look once I'm settled (probably mid next week). Marasmusine (talk) 11:51, 2 October 2013 (MDT)

Armorless Fighter Debate[edit]

Marasmusine, would you care to weigh in on this discussion regarding the armorless fighter?--Sir Dinadan (talk) 12:16, 4 October 2013 (MDT)

Uhm... Hi[edit]

You helped me see the flaw of my flaw Kleptomaniac i am not sure if it is still on your watch list so thought id let you know that i have completed the table, i think it will be fun but im uneasy about 00... Im fairly new at dming and love to learn from vets such as yourself, and offer my respect. I had to restore my profile on here as my original group went down in flames and ive been trying to put together a new group. So you can say ive been on a forced hiatus... I digress, im not sure if this is even the best place to do this im a noob on this site and never imagined how difficult it would be to put my work up, but i plan on putting everything i use up on here because i create alot of my own content that is just my style. Aaaanyway cant wait for feedback on the Kleptomaniac trait its my first contribution and im anxious to finish it! ~Xay

Welcome back! I'll take a look. Marasmusine (talk) 01:17, 16 October 2013 (MDT)

Spell points variant , variant[edit]

Im going to use the spell points variant with an added variant of my own design currently dubbed "magical weight" this works in conjunction with the spell points vitality system. So im going to run what i have in my head right now because you can offer the best insight imo.At 50 points you get a -1 con modifier and every 75 you lose 1 strength point at 100 you gain A random magical effect (a "burden") that is 100% permanent except for extreme cases. These burdens can be something like" you gain the negative effects of your next age category" or "you must now consume twice as much food as you would normally have to" this is to bring spelcasters down to other pc levels because i never liked how if you went with spell caster you would become more powerful than you would become more powerful than a combat focused pc.the inspiration is Raistlin btw but its for everyone that has magic which is everyone but there are plenty of classes that will not really feel this weight

What edition of D&D will it be for? Marasmusine (talk) 03:22, 25 October 2013 (MDT)


Are the ability score penalties permanent? Marasmusine (talk) 01:14, 28 October 2013 (MDT)

Well with the con. I dont want it to effect health,but i dont really know, im trying to find a way to make the character physically weaker but not completely cripple them (at the very least the magic would keep them ticking) but it needs to be outside of role-playing and have actual mechanical repercussions, a price for the power.

Forced Captcha Checks[edit]

Apologies, I know you're currently doing sweet cleanup work, but I was wondering if you had any idea as to why I'm forced to do a captcha check for every single edit I make? Started sometime recently and I'm very unsure as to why. --SgtLion (talk) 13:52, 29 October 2013 (MDT)

That's odd, you should check with User:Blue Dragon to see if it's a problem with your IP. Marasmusine (talk) 14:02, 29 October 2013 (MDT)
Sad times. I left him a message, thanks kindly anyhow~ --SgtLion (talk) 14:07, 29 October 2013 (MDT)
I am getting the captcha check and required to have computer do work if I attempt to create new content in discussion or concept and then it finishes the check and doesn't post what I was working on. Managed to work around it with the Objectum Apello and can do small edits without it. The text on the check also says I don't have to wait on the computer test if I have an account, even though I am logged in. --Honorlord (talk) 08:50, 15 November 2013 (MST)


Yeah go ahead fix it, it is the first thing I've made and i really couldn't think of much for it other than the Elemental Fists -Spikefigara

Objectum Apello[edit]

I saw you moved the page out of concepts ( The security mechanism would not let me added as a page under from my discussion page. It is a HomeBrew, so I was expecting some feedback before it went active content so to speak. So I was wonderring if you looked it over in te process of moving it?

No, all I did was add the ID ("(3.5e Class)") to the title. I can't see anything horribly wrong with your class but if you'd like some feedback you might like to ask User:Tivanir who is more up on 3.5e than me. Marasmusine (talk) 09:28, 15 November 2013 (MST)
Do you have any problems being able to edit Objectum Apello (3.5e Class)? Marasmusine (talk) 09:31, 15 November 2013 (MST)
I am having no problems editting, did a minor fix of text format this morning.--Honorlord (talk) 09:34, 15 November 2013 (MST)

Captcha Check and Not Posting[edit]

I am pretty sure I did the confirm email address, but there are still pages that continue to give me the Captcha check and when that happens I will go through the process and my computer will solve the problem in xx seconds, but nothing posts. I can not find any link where I can resubmit my email address to get another confirmation email. I can not as an example post a think you to the welcome on my user talk page. --Honorlord (talk) 07:58, 16 November 2013 (MST)

I've left a message for BlueDragon to look into this. Marasmusine (talk) 10:32, 16 November 2013 (MST)
I've added an exemption system and added you to it. You will still need to do the ReCAPTCHA test, but you should not need to put your computer through the additional puzzle. Please let me know if you have any more issues. Thanks! — Blue Dragon (talk) 12:47, 26 November 2013 (MST)

Prestige Class Line Breaks[edit]

Hello Marasmusine. I am curious why you are adding so many line breaks to the prestige classes HD entry, for example . I understand that the CSS is not displaying the epic ones right (at least, if you know how to correct this please do!), see also Help:Table. Is this to try to correct that? Its not the right formatting in any case. In addition why did you add &nbsp,'s in between 30 ft. ? That formatting is only necessary when the code demands such things... --Green Dragon (talk) 04:58, 18 November 2013 (MST)

That's autowikibrowser automatically changing things to Wikipedia's manual of style. See A non-breaking space is used so that the unit "50 ft" is (correctly) forced to stay on the same line. Not sure about the multiple line breaks, that's just its way of removing <p> (I assume we don't want html). Marasmusine (talk) 15:10, 18 November 2013 (MST)
Does autowikibrowser have to add in html code to the unit symbol's text? It's not terribly important, but I am just thinking about how many times those notations are on D&D Wiki and why such an intervention would make sense. Maybe you can turn that off? If they are breaking lines, though, then the intervention code would make a lot of sense to correct this problem.
Addressing my other concern, HTML is fine. Its some of the tables that are messed up (somehow, not sure since I have looked at the code and it seems quite okay). I would keep the HTML and if you know how to update the table correctly, then you should match your edits to that table style then. --Green Dragon (talk) 03:33, 29 November 2013 (MST)
Yeah, having a newline between values and symbol is considered bad style and the & nbsp; is the only way to fix this (since different people will be viewing the page in different window and font sizes).
I can disable AWB from making any Manual of Style fixes. But HTML code like <p> doesn't seem very common here, nor does it seem very necessary (we do not need html code for "paragraph" if we're using wiki markup), it might be better if I just manually fix those as they occur. Marasmusine (talk) 04:09, 29 November 2013 (MST)

Paradoxes again![edit]

Could you explain how to get the current version of my Paradoxes race in my userspace to standard race page standards? Thanks! -DigiDuncan

Left some feedback on the talk page. Marasmusine (talk) 00:28, 19 November 2013 (MST)
I still do not understand LA. What does it do? [speed edit, also edited the page a bit] ~DigiDuncan! (talk) 13:57, 19 November 2013 (MST)
It is SRD:Level Adjustment. You add LA to class levels to get an ECL (effective class level). Let's say you are a SRD:Hobgoblin. Their racial traits give them a bit of an edge over other PC races, so they have an LA of +1. So a starting character would have to be 2nd Level, but only have 1 class level. Hit Dice, Saving Throws and Skills are based on your class levels, and your XP progression is based on your ECL.
What this means is if you have a race with a bunch of powerful traits like Regeneration and Spell Resistance, the race has a high LA. I figured +3 for the Paradoxes. So if you want to play as a Paradoxe Monk, you have to start at 4th level but only have 1 level of Monk (and therefore only have 1 Hit Die, etc)
As you can imagine, things get a bit silly at high LAs when you're running around with only 10 hit points and you're trying to fight trolls and falling down 100' pit traps and whatnot. When designing the race you should try to aim for a low LA, or you can mitigate by throwing in some racial HD. Marasmusine (talk) 01:50, 20 November 2013 (MST)
Look Level Adjustment up straight from Wizards of the coast. LA is a DM tool, for establishing appropriate encounter challenges and XP based on the challenge of an encounter. LA does not change the experience required to get to the next level - a level 1 character with a +2 LA still only needs Level 2 XP to get Level 2. LA does not change Level based reward schedules, they are still based on the characters actual level. When a character takes a PRC of Arcane Trickster and ends up with a +10 level bonus to their existing caster class, that does not mean they need another 10 levels of experience to get one more level, but it does mean that the Challenge Rating(CR) is +10. Level Adjustments and Effective Character Levels(ECL) are not penalties, they effect what the DM needs to do more than what the character needs to do. A level 1 Character with an ECL of 3, is still a level 1 Character with level 1 Class abilities, but a CR of a level 3 effecting the challenge rating of an encounter. The actual character level is still based on the rule book and advances accordingly. A Paradoxe Monk Level 1 with an LA of +3 would still be a level 1 Monk, but when figuring the challenge rating for an encounter he gets averaged in as a 4, Regeneration, SR and power traits theoretically give him 4 times the ability to survive. This is not a bad thing, but it may result in more difficult encounters and more work for the DM to keep things at a challenging level. --Honorlord (talk) 22:03, 20 November 2013 (MST)
To quote the SRD: "Add [LA] to the creature’s total Hit Dice, including class levels, to get the creature’s effective character level (ECL). A character’s ECL affects the experience the character earns, the amount of experience the character must have before gaining a new level, and the character’s starting equipment." A PC with 1 level of Monk and +3 LA is treated as a level 4 character for the purpose of earning XP and leveling up.
A PRC's trait that says "+1 level of existing class" is not related to LA. Please don't make an already confusing system more so with this misinformation. Marasmusine (talk) 00:40, 21 November 2013 (MST)
Was not trying to add confusion, that just contradicts what Wizards of the Coast says about Level Adjustment and defeats the value of taking a PRC that gives +Level adjustments, since it results in a penalty to experience gained and a penalty with increased experience required. --Honorlord (talk) 05:49, 21 November 2013 (MST)
Maybe it would help if I read what WoTC said. Can you link it for me? Marasmusine (talk) 05:54, 21 November 2013 (MST)
My DM doesn't use LA, he just nerfs the classes appropriately for Homebrewed classes. Which is similar, I guess. --~DigiDuncan! (talk) 10:23, 21 November 2013 (MST)
Will get you the link later, can not access Wizard website from work. I did a disceration on ECL here in discussion under ECL Discussion ECL is very misunderstood and even whenunderstood there are variants on application, also there is Effective Character Level and Effective Caster Level which are two differnet things also, although somewhat related. Also SRD does have interpretted information like here and is subject to error, almost all of their ECL postings I have seen would fall in a catagory of "homebrew" or someone's interpretation of how to use it. This is not a bad thing, but leaves open opportunity for a misunderstanding of how something was intended to work. --Honorlord (talk) 09:34, 21 November 2013 (MST)
Wizards of the Coast Gloasry for Level Adjustment --Honorlord (talk) 16:27, 21 November 2013 (MST)

That doesn't support what you are saying. The glossary reiterates what the SRD says. Glossary: "[a drow's] level adjustment of +2 indicates that a 1st-level drow wizard is the equivalent of a 3rd-level character." SRD: "[ECL] affects the experience the character earns, the amount of experience the character must have before gaining a new level". You said "LA does not change Level based reward schedules, they are still based on the characters actual level." Where are you getting this from? It directly contracts the rulebook, and your way of doing things isn't compatible with, say, leveled-adjusted races[2] templates[3] or UA:Reducing Level Adjustments. It also doesn't explain why you are confusing LA with elements from PRCs. Marasmusine (talk) 01:20, 22 November 2013 (MST) give a definition of both LA and ECL SRD content on LA and ECL like here is interpretive at best. WoTC explicitely addresses LA with reference to CR, which impacts experience gained based on the relative rating of a challenge. I am not confusing LA with Level bonuses of PRC, which is why they are addressed as separate means of increasing ECL. LA does corrosponds to increased ECL at character creation, PRC +level adds ECL withthe PRC development, with these PRCs, the character levels the PRC and also levels the class the +Level is applied to and in effect ECL is going up 2 or 3 levels with each level of the PRC. These ECL increases do not resulte in requiring the character to get compensatory experience to the ECL before they can level again, because experience to level is based on the base character level, just like scheduled feats or character level(not class level) benefits. These simply are not based on ECL. Nothing in the rule books or on WoTC states LA or ECL impacts the base character advancement. This of having to get level 4 experience for an LA +2 character to get to level 2 is 100% not in the core rules or on WoTC, but rather the result of someone making their own ruling because they didn't undertsand posting it and others buying into it. SRD has homebrew information just like here and what you are looking at is homebrew content not based on WoTC or Core Rulebooks that has added misunderstanding that was not htere in the Core Rules. I would be glad to discuss this lower profile in my own "talk", but I can not update there, not sure why. --Honorlord (talk) 08:37, 22 November 2013 (MST)
The SRD does not contain homebrew material. You can check the relevant SRD sections directly from the WoTC site and see it's exactly the same as what I quoted above. You want something directly from the core rules? Dungeon Master's Guide, Monsters as Races, page 172-173: "A monster with Hit Dice of 1 or less, a level adjustment, and class levels adds its class levels, Hit Dice and level adjustment together when referring to Table 3-2 [That's the Experience table]. For instance, suppose a monster with 1 Hit Dice and a +1 level adjustment has two levels of rogue. Its ECL is 4 (2 class levels + 1 Hit Die + 1 level adjustment). In order to gain another class level, it needs a total of 10,000 XP".
This is not "interpretive", it's absolutely clear. I will await your link to official ruling that PRCs effect LA or effective class level (beyond their normal class level contribution), or that LA does not contribute towards XP progression. Marasmusine (talk) 12:27, 22 November 2013 (MST)
I am aware that I am being confrontational, for which I apologize. Marasmusine (talk) 12:30, 22 November 2013 (MST)
I have sent an email to Wizards of the Coast, right or wrong, I will share their answer when I receive it. You are correct in what the 3.5 DM manual says, but that formula if applied to all ECLs would mean to take the ECL of a Thuerg you would have to gain 3 levels of experience for each level gained. --Honorlord (talk) 13:06, 22 November 2013 (MST)
I'm not sure what a Thuerg is. Marasmusine (talk) 13:21, 22 November 2013 (MST)
No worries about you being confrontational, I did not take it that way. I have personnally missed that bit of text you pointed out, and you are the first person who has actually pointed me to a valid sourrce for the insanity. I still have a problem with the rules then, because they way that is written the Player character does in fact get 4 separate penalties for playing an out of the box character. Also that formula results in open questionability of the virtue of any PRC that grants levels in a preexisting class. I have taken no offense, please do not take offense to anything I have said either. --Honorlord (talk) 13:46, 22 November 2013 (MST)

Sorry, didn't have the reference in front of me and spelled it wrong "mystic theurge" PRC class, I do not know the previous reference, but it is in the Pathfinders Core books. --Honorlord (talk) 13:59, 22 November 2013 (MST)

So I got a reply, but it was relatively useless. Pretty much just said they do not provide that type of exchange through email to go to the Player forums on their website to discuss things like this. I have to say I prefer the way Pathfinder deal with it. --Honorlord (talk) 20:58, 22 November 2013 (MST)
The Mystic Theurge is like this: A character with, say, 5 levels of wizard, 5 levels of cleric and 5 levels of mystic theurge is a level 15 character (5+5+5). She has the spells per day and caster level of a level 10 wizard and a level 10 cleric. That's it. It is not related to level adjustment or effective character level (this PC would be ECL 15 if she was a race from the player's handbook). I don't know what you mean by "gain 3 levels of experience for each level gained"). Marasmusine (talk) 23:57, 22 November 2013 (MST)
"spells per day and caster level of a level 10 wizard and a level 10 cleric" Is an Effective Character Level of 20 then add the level 5 Theurge for a total Effective Level of 25. Based on page 193 DM, he also gets to learn spells at the higher level, don't know how that can be assessed as anything less then an Effective Character Level, but lettings this drop. In the games I run, I will continue to run my games without subjecting the players to LA , it did not exist before 3.5 and it was dropped in 4th Edition and not carried over to Pathfinder it is easy enough to balance the game to the characters without forcing a character to fall significantly behind their group as far as leveling.
At my last attempt to help you understand, and I won't press the issue further, I'll just repeat that the only things that contribute towards Effective Character Level is class levels, racial hit dice, and level adjustement. The theurge above has 15 class levels (5 wizard, 5 cleric, 5 theurge), no racial hit dice, and no level adjustment = ECL 15, the same as her class levels. The wizard and cleric casting levels are not class levels, or level adjustments, or racial hit dice.
If you are dropping the issue, is it okay with you if I remove the misinformation on the ECL talk page? As it's just going to confuse players of 3.5e Marasmusine (talk) 13:28, 23 November 2013 (MST)
Oh god I started a massive thread. Sorry! ~DigiDuncan! (talk) 09:19, 26 November 2013 (MST)
That's okay I think we all learnt something. Although I think some useful information might have got pushed out of my brain. Marasmusine (talk) 10:11, 26 November 2013 (MST)

Yes, you can remove it. The DM manual reference you pointed out is clear on what it says. --Honorlord (talk) 04:48, 24 November 2013 (MST)

I have a bit of a help question. I wrote up a class for 3.5, however I don't see a link for it with the rest of the classes in the 3.5 homebrew section of the site. how do I get a link to it on that page so people looking for something new can view it. It is the Warder. thanks for your time. (Atrus Enosi)

Hi Atrus, I have added some categories to the bottom of the page so it appears now. You can improve the visibility of your class by adding one or more of the categories listed at the top of 3.5e Base Classes (Strong Spellcasting, etc) and by filling in the infobox. Marasmusine (talk) 14:57, 12 December 2013 (MST)

Image File Deletion[edit]

I had uploaded some images I had thought to be public domain or free-to-use, Upon further review I'm no longer certian that is the case. Therefore, i as that the following image files be deleted in order to err on the side of caution: File:4thunderborn.jpg, File:ThCA3EHDI1.jpg, File:Th.jpg, File:PapelDeParedeAnjoDeFogo.png. Thankyou, --Elohim (talk) 16:50, 24 July 2014 (MDT)

Thank-you. The first was from Angry Warrior (Bigzur), the second is copyright by aditya777 on deviantart, and the last by Imaliea on deviantart. You can still use external links to display images under copyright if the size of the original is appropriate. I couldn't find the Angry Warrior image without the game title in it. However, here are links to the thumbnails on deviantart. If you use them, please attribute the artist in the caption. Ai_28072010_by_aditya777.jpg those_who_favour_fire_by_imaliea-d4d71gk.jpg

Marasmusine (talk) 01:30, 25 July 2014 (MDT)

Thank you. What about the other one? File:Th.jpg
Here is where i found it.;_ylt=AwrB8p8H39JTCUUAVwqJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzZmhqcGoyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAMwYmU5N2I1NTNiNGE2ZjE4MzM2Mzg4NzM2YmJjNGRkYQRncG9zAzMwBGl0A2Jpbmc-?
--Elohim (talk) 16:56, 25 July 2014 (MDT)
Hmm, the yahoo search result is embedded in a way such that I can't drag it into Google Image Search (which is my usual method for finding the original source of a picture), and I get a 404 error if I try to go to (and as is usual from "wallpaper" sites, the owner doesn't care about copyright or attribution). Marasmusine (talk) 02:16, 26 July 2014 (MDT)

items not showing[edit]

I am fairly certain i am doing something wrong, I developed two items (spear of goblin destiny and psionic augment crystals) and neither one is showing in the appropriate list. Any chance you can help? thanks.... --Bucky33 (talk) 20:54, 21 July 2014 (MDT)

They are missing categories. For Spear of Goblin Destiny (3.5e Equipment), you've formatted it as though it's a mundane weapon, which it's not. It's not a full magic weapon though either. I'm going to reformat it and put it at 3.5e Specific Weapons. Marasmusine (talk) 00:55, 22 July 2014 (MDT)
Thanks, I am still learning the wiki style thing

--Bucky33 (talk) 16:44, 22 July 2014 (MDT)

Metamorph class deletion[edit]

I had made some edits to the class to affect balance, also asked on the talk page if the changes were enough. --Elohim (talk) 16:35, 11 June 2014 (MDT)

I'll take another look. Marasmusine (talk) 00:21, 12 June 2014 (MDT)

RockJockey's Edits Explanation[edit]

I left an explanation of my edits on Bladed Magus Working on the one for Carpet Wizard.

I am simply trying to balance the kits, however if the original author wishes otherwise, I will forsake my quest. Sincerely, RockJockey

Thank-you! Marasmusine (talk) 01:26, 30 May 2014 (MDT)


SRD:Blacklight is not actually part of the SRD. I can't fix this because it's protected, like all SRD material. Can you move Blacklight to a non-SRD section? Vadskye (talk)

It seems it is from the Spell Compendium, so I've removed it. Marasmusine (talk) 02:31, 26 March 2014 (MDT)

On uploaded pictures[edit]

Hey, new guy on the wiki ahoy. I've been working on my 3.5e setting (thanks for correcting the name, btw) and when my uploaded pictures failed to load, blamed the interwebs. I just noticed you've been deleting them on basis of copyright violation - oy vey. I'm assuming most of my uploaded images (used in Years of Gold) are in violation too, I'll be looking them through. Sorry for the foolishness and thanks for cleaning up after me :) Cancelion (talk) 10:08, 22 March 2014 (MDT)

On the subject of pictures: how would I go about embedding a picture with an external link? I never edited wiki's before and the tutorials I'm using are way unclear... Cancelion (talk) 11:01, 22 March 2014 (MDT)
I think I got how the images work now. I'll delete the copyright-offending pictures and replacing them with better alternatives. Thanks for your help, you're awesome! Cancelion (talk) 11:20, 22 March 2014 (MDT)

Stupid Question[edit]

I feel pretty dumb having to ask this :I Since it feels like Im one of the people who are constantly complaining about people editing my classes and what-not, but how does one request that a page be locked from editing? lol

Let me know what you would like locking. Marasmusine (talk) 01:13, 18 January 2014 (MST)

Quick Question[edit]

Hello Marasusine, I know that you are quite busy with all the various things you do around the dandwiki and not to mention the rest of your life. But there are several things I would like your opinion on before moving on with them (ie Starting or continuing), and I was wondering how I can make it easier or more convenient for you? --Aitharious (talk) 18:12, 17 December 2013 (MST)
Sure, just point me in the direction of what you would like me to harshly criticize :) Marasmusine (talk) 00:58, 18 December 2013 (MST)
Ok first things first with the regards to the Biotic source power since they don't have weapons how dose this sound (note i'm just copying what was in the disscution but since that also lists the classes it would be hard to find)
since the Biotic classes (in most cases) would have no weapon or implement each time they level they could gain an attribute each level (choses from a list) these possible attributes could have the requirement of past attributes and be specific from either level to level or per tier like feats.
Also here are three creature idea's that in terms of mechanics are unconventional, all of them are on "the new world" page with a brief description of each.
Harbingers Some attack have solder like accuracy with brute like damage and are ranged but these attack deal damage and or weaken themselves.
Destructs Many at-will attacks but they have a cool down to them (Roll a die and that’s how many turns it will take) they may use them pre-emptively but it can disable that attack and or cause damage not to mention an extended cool down.
Vol-Kin When they die they have a chance (and a high one at that) to create a powerful burst attack (1-3 turns after their death) possibly with shrapnel.
--Aitharious (talk) 08:13, 18 December 2013 (MST)

If a class can't benefit from weapons or implements, they could use an inherent bonus. More information on this in DMG2, but basically they would get a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with their powers at levels 2, 7, 12, 17, 22 and 27. You'll also have to give them something to make up for the versatility and customization that magic items bring. You could instead make their attacks Implement, and give them a symbolic implement like the ki focus, or make it similar to grandmaster training or a divine boon (DMG2, again, lots of ideas in there for alternatives to magic items).

The harbringers would be Artillery (accuracy is the same for all roles, see for the "Monster Manual 3 on a business card"). Extra damage in exchange for self-weaken sounds fine to me, those damned Players deserve everything they get.

At-will attacks with a cool-down: why not use Encounter powers with a Recharge? Avoid round-counting.

Vol-Kin: I am all for exploding enemies. Again, to avoid round-counting, the DM can roll a die every turn to see if the corpse explodes. 10+ on a d20 would give you about 1-3 rounds.

Let me know if you need help making their statblocks. Marasmusine (talk) 14:13, 18 December 2013 (MST)

General I will need help editing the stats block but with the deciving harbinger I think i actualy did a pretty good job with the stats but a quick look over it all would be greatly apriciated. --Aitharious (talk) 06:40, 21 February 2014 (MST)

Cool, I'll take a look later today. Marasmusine (talk) 06:57, 21 February 2014 (MST)


I'm just gonna take this moment to unnecessarily clutter your talk page and say that you're a pretty chill person and I like the way you think. I do however have nothing vaguely constructive or site-related on my tongue today. --SgtLion (talk) 20:15, 4 January 2014 (MST)

Happy new year! (Unless you're on the Discordian calender or something) Marasmusine (talk) 02:08, 5 January 2014 (MST)
Happy new nondiscordian year~ I'm sure you'd notice and respond if you wanted to anyway, but if you have any thoughts on [[4]], I'd enjoy 'em. --SgtLion (talk) 15:13, 8 January 2014 (MST)

Page-related request[edit]

You recently deleted a page (the Unarmed Fighter class) which I was using for a game and lost in my most recent Chrome restart. Is there any way at all you can find what was there and get me a copy to reference? Also, is there a better way to privately message you or anyone else about this sort of thing?

<Accidental double-post>

I have temporarily restored it, it's at Unarmed Fighter (3.5e Class). When you are on my userpage, you should see a link to the left under "tools" called "Email this user", you can privately contact me or other users this way. Marasmusine (talk) 10:49, 18 January 2014 (MST)


Could you help me clean up the image formatting on User:DigiDuncan/Paradoxes (3.5e Race)? The photo looks weird where it is. I give you free reign to edit that page to your likings.

EDIT: Also, you deleted my deity as well! Right after my race, I swear, you have it out for my campaign! Could you move the old "Barundee (3.5e Deity)" to my userspace, by chance?

You'll find it at User:DigiDuncan/Barundee (3.5e Deity). Is this the right one? It doesn't have any actual content, and your name isn't in the edit history. Marasmusine (talk) 01:08, 5 February 2014 (MST)
-It-may-be-at-Barundee-then,-I-thought-the-content-was-moved.- I would actually cross this out, but HTML doesn't work, so I can't use the <strikethrough> tag.
EDIT: No no no wait, that is the right content! I know I didn't edit it ever, but I was using it in my campaign, and planned to help spruce up the page before it was outright deleted. Thanks for moving it.
You're welcome Marasmusine (talk) 14:26, 5 February 2014 (MST)

Paradoxes Part III: Revenge of the Paradoxes[edit]

Could you look at the Paradox page in my userspace yet again? I'm doing balancing and pretty much changing the entire backstory, and thus many racial changes have occurred and most of the original content from before the pages removal from normal space is either gone or overwritten.

~DigiDuncan! (talk) 11:00, 5 February 2014 (MST)


I say your name "mɛr-ɛs-muː-sɪn-e" (mare iss moo sin ay). Is that right? Maybe it's "mɑr ahz mu sin i"? Or maybe "mɑ rɑ smoos een i"? I need help here!

~DigiDuncan! (talk) 09:06, 6 February 2014 (MST) (dih dʒi dən kɪn)

Hahah :) It's muh-raz-muhs with -ine suffix (as though it were a medicine) Marasmusine (talk) 13:54, 6 February 2014 (MST)

City Guide/Generating[edit]

As you can see here at A Magical Medieval City Guide (DnD Other)/Generating, I have redone the horrendous formatting to "Wikify" the article. I am hesitant to remove the "Formatting Issues" template, as I'm not sure if the article still require further edits. Could you please give it a once-over and tell me what, if anything, needs to be altered about the page? Jkat718 P.S. In the future, I would like to fix the other sections of the Magical Medieval City Guide. If you are willing to give it, any help would be greatly appreciated. (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2014 (MST)

So...I just found the actual book A Magical Medieval City Guide, and made it look g as close to the book as I could without it losing the "wiki" feel.
That's good work, it looks fine. A further refinement could be arranging some of the smaller tables into two or three columns (so there's less scrolling). I'll give that a try later. Marasmusine (talk) 01:01, 7 February 2014 (MST)
After much hard work (aka. looking through Wikipedia tutorials) I got three of the Tables to be in the same line. It's less to scroll through, but it doesn't look very good... Maybe if the space in between the tables was reduced? Jkat718 (talk) 23:45, 9 February 2014 (MST)
Hmm, on my screen there's six columns. I'll have a go. Marasmusine (talk) 01:03, 10 February 2014 (MST)
I was talking about tables IV.6, IV.7, and IV.8. The tables in IV.11 are in six columns, yes. Jkat718 (talk) 06:51, 10 February 2014 (MST)
Three columns looks fine. Marasmusine (talk) 07:58, 10 February 2014 (MST)
Thanks. Should I remove the template for Formatting Issues? Jkat718 (talk) 09:59, 10 February 2014 (MST)
Yep! Thanks for your work on that, tables are such a bore. Marasmusine (talk) 11:37, 10 February 2014 (MST)
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