User talk:Green Dragon/Archive 23

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Its contents should be preserved in their current form. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 23 |

Rating Please[edit]

I have created a few classes, and I would very much appreciate if you could rate them for me. The classes are Mime (3.5e Class) and Soldier (3.5e Class), and Dragoon (by RDC) (3.5 PrC).

Thank you for your time, Rogue The Demonchild 21:27, 12 January 2011 (MST)

4 Edition Summaries[edit]

Long time no see. I was wondering if I am allowed to put small summaries of the 4 edition races in my Campaign's races page. It would be name, size, stat bonus and racial features.

I am asking because the races I want to put in are rather small, and it seems strange to just have a couple of things on one page. The official 4 edition races would be for comparison. Celen Joad 11:05, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Of course. The official races, however, you can't add. --Green Dragon 17:21, 28 January 2011 (MST)

4e Campaign Settings[edit]

Discussion moved to Talk:4e Campaign Settings#Organizational Structure. --Green Dragon 11:21, 14 January 2011 (MST)

4e Giants, Devils, and Demons[edit]

Does anyone think that giants could become a race? --Axl 17:23, 26 January 2011 (MST)

Does this & this help? --Milo High-Hill 18:57, 26 January 2011 (MST)
Er, I mean for D&D 4e. Not 3.5e. Sorry. Do you think that even Devils and Demons could become races in 4e? --Axl 16:47, 28 January 2011 (MST)
I don't see why not. Some things may give you direction, ideas, and so forth. The horned devil you created, the cambion, infernal blooded relate to name a few. With regard to giants, half-giant, hill giant may give you direction, ideas, and so forth to name a few. Does this help at all? --Green Dragon 17:18, 28 January 2011 (MST)
Do you think that the horned devil is too powerful? --Axl 21:02, 28 January 2011 (MST)
I took a look at it, and modified Template:Needsbalance's reason. --Green Dragon 21:39, 28 January 2011 (MST)
Okay, I looked at it. Maybe, instead, I could make a paragon path that allows wings (I looked in the Player's Handbook 2 and it allows the dragonborn to have an overland flight speed of 12)? --Axl 21:49, 28 January 2011 (MST)
Is that a power though? If you make it something like a power, I imagine that would balance it. A paragon path with the same goal could give you flying results too. --Green Dragon 22:02, 28 January 2011 (MST)
Well, at level 12, it allows you to make a brief flight. But at level 16, you gain the overland flight. But this is only if you choose that paragon path. --Axl 21:46, 29 January 2011 (MST)
If you supply me a link I could take a look at it. --Green Dragon 23:12, 6 April 2011 (MDT)


I like the idea for the Magician class-is there a way to contact the author? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wonderer (talkcontribs) 17:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC). Please sign your posts.

You'll have to give me more information. Which magician related content? --Green Dragon 22:52, 6 April 2011 (MDT)

Warning Policy Input[edit]

Hey Green Dragon. I was looking at Talk:Hill Giant. Thank you for trying to keep profanity down, even name calling. --Axl 21:44, 29 January 2011 (MST)

No problem. Do you think the revision history link is superfluous (and counter-productive)? Should the text be condensed? Thoughts? --Green Dragon 22:44, 6 April 2011 (MDT)
The history link... What do you mean by if it's superfluous? I don't think the text should be condensed. Well, lets see... Do you think that giants are really that bad? Can Giants wield Medium weapons? Also, Giants aren't readly accepted into society (they kinda have a bad reputation). Also, weapons cost more (if you get them from a non-giant source, and that's if they even want to make one for a giant that they know nothing about). --Axl 14:40, 9 April 2011 (MDT)


Hey Green Dragon. I talked with my brother, and he said that bursts weren't that bad. Do you think that giants should be practically normal, but the user chooses whether to pick a power or a feature (you can only have one or the other; not both)? --Axl 15:07, 1 February 2011 (MST)

I've never seen that used before, and it could make for confusion. I'd recommend just toning down the burst and the class feature, but bursts are interesting, I agree. --Green Dragon 23:15, 6 April 2011 (MDT)

4e Sourcebook Pumped Up[edit]

Discussion moved to Talk:Pumped Up (4e Sourcebook)#Balance. --Green Dragon 23:20, 6 April 2011 (MDT)

Meaning of Meaningful Gestures?[edit]

Was reading Catgirls, and was a tad jarred by the "Meaningful gesture" section under Names. Without any explanations given for these gestures, is this meant to be presented as a "Interpret as you will" type listing, or was this something that was going to be expanded upon further? Using known data about real-life felines and fictional Japanese catgirls as a starting point, I have compiled a very extensive list of different Body Language messages which we use for a local Catgirl character, which you are more than welcome to use if you wish. I'll be watching this page for a response. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 07:39, 8 February 2011 (UTC). Please sign your posts.

That is fine to add that to those pages. --Green Dragon 17:02, 9 February 2011 (MST)
Looks good! I added them to other related catgirl pages and moved it into the Relations section. --Green Dragon 23:06, 6 April 2011 (MDT)

Just another new guy asking around...[edit]

SO I've been told about the treasure trove of optional ideas that have been continuing the sprit of 3.5 by my newest D&D group and after a (strangely lucid) dream I came up with the following:

Spell Slayer

This +3 crystalline Mage Bane Longsword when wielded by a spell caster on impact allows the caster to make a DC 30 Spellcraft check. On a successful check the sword ether casts vampiric touch (as caster level 6, max 3 times per combat) OR, if the target is a spellcaster it steals one (1) random spell. Spells stolen this way are stored until the end of combat and are dispelled afterwards. A caster with the Arcane Strike feat may sacrifice spells stolen in this manner for the bonuses provided by the feat. (For cost see Holy Avenger)

Crystalline Weapon property

This material is primarily used to make weapons for and against spellcasters. It provides an additional (stacks with magical bonuses) equipment bonus +1 to hit and damage versus targets with magical abilities or properties (supernatural abilities or uncast spells are examples of this). In addition it provides a +1 to caster level for all spellcasters wielding or possessing such a weapon, hafted weapons do not confer the caster level bonus. All weapons crafted from Crystalline are considered master work. (For cost see Adamantine)

Now I don't want to post anything retardedly over powered up on the site (like some of the things I have seen/heard) and would like some advice before I throw it up on the site since I haven't seen a forum section (yet).

The best way to get things looked at is to just take the plunge and create the page. If it is retardedly over-powered, people will tell you. Most people here will offer constructive criticism and will genuinely want to help you improve/complete/flesh out your 'fill in the blank'. Spelling and grammar checks are also staples of the site. PS. always remember to sign your comments by typing in two - followed by four ~. --Calidore Chase 03:29, 21 February 2011 (MST)


Hey. Umm I'm just joined your site; I'm wondering if there is anything i should know (like guidelines for what and what not to post). I'm kind of wondering how to make classes. P.S.: I'm guessing those little #s in red and green are reputation points. --Knave 67 00:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Classes for which edition? Any of the "create" boxes will use the correct preload if you use them, giving direction for the class. The preloads (some are listed here) should tell you what the class is. As everything is different in nature, telling you how something should be created is not possible. Of course guidelines exist, and DnD Guidelines may help you. Most things are balanced off similar things and, as mentioned above, if something is retardedly overpowered people will tell you. Does this help? Also what do you mean by the post scriptum you mentioned above? --Green Dragon 18:18, 21 February 2011 (MST)
He's probably talking about the recent changes log. If that's the case, the red and green numbers represent how many characters were subtracted or added during a page edit. JazzMan 19:15, 21 February 2011 (MST)

Oh okay I thought it was like a karma system or something along those lines. Also thank you Mr.Chartreuse Wyvern I wanted to make a class but it looks more complicated than a pictureless jigsaw puzzle so right now i'm just browsing the cite looking for boffo nuggets.

new type of creature[edit]

Hello I'm working on a hybrid type. half giant red dragon. created by a crazy wizard, for would domination basically. however the creatures have morals and are therefore useless to him, so he abandons them. the creatures themselves would be fairly tall I'm think 7 - 8 an a half feet, strength and con bonuses with hits to car a level adjustment. any advice or an opinion on it would be greatly appreciated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wytewulf (talkcontribs) 22:18, 24 February 2011 (UTC). Please sign your posts.

As a template (like the SRD:Half-Dragon), new type, or race? Or what were you intending? --Green Dragon 22:12, 1 March 2011 (MST)

Can you create your own monster and how?[edit]

How do you make your own monster? Beacause I've always wanted to make my own "dragon-dillo" (armadillo & dragon combine). --Ja-Snake 19:56, 6 March 2011 (MST)

See also "Create new creature". Things like CR Estimation Table (DnD Guideline) may help. Does this answer your question? --Green Dragon 20:18, 6 March 2011 (MST)


Green Dragon, I am new to the d and d wiki community and i cant figure out how to create my own class. I know how to edit and change other classes if they ask for revising, but i want to be able to create my own. I would appreciate it a lot if you could either tell me how or if you could send me a link or something showing how.

Thank you for your time and consideration

Does Add New 3.5e Class cover your question? --Green Dragon 22:42, 13 March 2011 (MDT)

Deleting images[edit]

Can you delete a couple images for me? this image is copyrighted and this image was created instead to tell us that the first image was copyrighted. I don't seem to be able to delete them. JazzMan 06:53, 18 March 2011 (MDT)

I can (and will later), however if you want to you can too. You can't do it on the page you supplied, you have to do it on media. So go to the file description page, dndmedia:File:Pyromancer.jpg, (make sure your logged in) and delete it. --Green Dragon 10:33, 18 March 2011 (MDT)
Actually the only listed admins for media are you and Blue Dragon. JazzMan 12:08, 18 March 2011 (MDT)
Oh ya, huh. I'll try to get that dealt with sometime. And I deleted them by the way. --Green Dragon 21:23, 18 March 2011 (MDT)


Hey Green Dragon, you know the "create new equipment" in the D&D 4e equipment section? I think we should change it so that way it follows the 4e format. --Axl 21:05, 18 March 2011 (MDT)

I agree. Do you have a specific idea for implementation? If so I would be more then willing to help you with it. --Green Dragon 21:24, 18 March 2011 (MDT)
Badger actually has a preload set up (it's how I've been posting 4e stuff on my sourcebook). The link is here --Axl 11:57, 26 March 2011 (MDT)

Featured Article Nomination?[edit]

What do I have to do in order to get an article nominated? --Axl 12:33, 26 March 2011 (MDT)

Um, never mind. --Axl 12:34, 26 March 2011 (MDT)
See also Featured Articles#Featured Article Nominees. --Green Dragon 15:39, 26 March 2011 (MDT)

Not updating[edit]

Hey Green Dragon,

I tried to update the File:Marino.jpg picture, but it's not updating. It instead stays in it's previous form. --Axl 15:40, 28 March 2011 (MDT)
okay. It seems that if I make the picture too big, it doesn't revert. --Axl 15:59, 28 March 2011 (MDT)
Still. Could this be fixed? --Axl 16:09, 28 March 2011 (MDT)

Deities secion[edit]

I was browsing through the 3.5e Deities section and I encountered multiple entries that were meant only as jokes. Thas is not suitable. This is the first time I use this Wiki, and all those prank articles didn't leave a very good impression. I wish to request an immediate clean-up in the Deities section and remove all fake deities. I understand it may be fun to add Ceiling Cat as a Deity but this kind of humor is not appropriate here.

Did they have the April Fool Category? If so I think their ment to be their.--Milo High-Hill 06:10, 11 April 2011 (MDT)
The 'Not Appropriate' part made me snicker a bit, honestly, as I had to consider whether D&D was serious business, for a moment. That said, it's just as easy to pass by the joke deities and move onto a real one. Until the number becomes far greater than the number of real deities, I say it is alright to leave it as it is. Jwguy 05:15, 10 July 2011 (MDT)


Hey Green Dragon,

Do you think that maybe I could add a feat to the Reploid race that gives them automatic plate (I call it total armor) proficiency (even if they don't have proficiency with preceeding armors)? You might also want a look at the link I have up there to see if a fit would even be possible without taking anything out. --Axl 22:44, 13 April 2011 (MDT)
Or do you think that there should just be metalized versions of the armors already set up in regular 4e? Thin metal for cloth armor, thicker armor for leather, etc. --Axl 23:08, 13 April 2011 (MDT)

SRD:Bless Water[edit]

I think holy water in the spell text should be wikilinked. - BalthCat 04:29, 17 April 2011 (MDT)

Adding Content[edit]

Hi I wanted to know if I could add on the magic items sections some of the info from more of the core books? and if I could how? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jaybird (talkcontribs) 20:50, 18 April 2011 (UTC). Please sign your posts.

It depends on the license. Do you know the license? --Green Dragon 20:03, 18 April 2011 (MDT)

help looking[edit]

i need help looking for the d20 modern specs for a "big rig 10 to 14 wheeler" if you could send me specs or a site that gives this i would be very greatful.

Is MSRD:Vehicles#Peterbilt 379 what you are looking for (see the table above for statistics)? --Green Dragon 00:32, 25 April 2011 (MDT)

Was just wondering...[edit]

Just curious as to whether or not I could get my hands on a downloadable export of the mysql db for this site. I was hoping to use it for my own private notes. I play at a few people's places that don't have wifi (one of the doesnt even have internet) It would be helpful to have an SRD and such that I could put my own notes into. Either way, I completely dig the site. Keep up the good work man! -- Theoneandtruebane 17:10, 29 April 2011 (MDT)

Well, as per the GNU FDL, you can use Special:Export which should help you. You can, of course, convert the XML to different formats such as pdf. --Green Dragon 21:55, 29 April 2011 (MDT)
Many thanx good sir! -- Theoneandtruebane 10:35, 30 April 2011 (MDT)


Hey Green Dragon.. This is Dj00345... i have a question for the 2.5e Homebrew that you are letting me create for the wiki.... How can i create a Template for some of the pages????? i notice when i create a new creature that there is already typing on the white screen when you create a creature... i know that is a template... but how do i create my own template myself???? i need to make some of the templates for the other links, like: Deities, Equipment, Spells, Races, Class, and the others, so that when people create a page, then the right information will already be on the screen and all they have to do is create the page.... do you understand what i am saying???? please reply back on my user talk page... thx!!! Dj00345 13:53, 2 May 2011 (MDT)

Just create the page. When creating it the formatting guidelines to use can be found here. After it is created you use a inputbox and put it on preload=. Does this answer your question? --Green Dragon 18:59, 5 May 2011 (MDT)
yes. Dj00345 20:08, 5 May 2011 (MDT)

3.5e Campaign Setting Teoryran[edit]

How can improve my Teoryran Setting. How can I create classes for Teoryran with the same name but different from existing classes of the same name? I am making a new system. Where all base classes are racial and status based on:

  • Each race have four subraces for peasants, nobles, priests and a variable fourth.
  • Each subrace have a class
  • Each social caste have classes based on them.

Noble orcs can be samurai and noble humans can be knights. Human and orc serfs can be scoundrels, thiefs or conscriped soldiers. There will be different classes for priests and monks than for nobility. "Big changes" include:

  • only racial classes gives hp
  • carrier classes doesn't give HP
  • gold is removed

--Klas Wullt, 01:42 13 May 2011 (MST)

For the pages with the same name you include ", Teoryran". For example "Orc, Teoryran (3.5e Race)". For the subraces you include their subrace after the comma (much like the SRD elves). For example "Orc, Teoryran Peasant (3.5e Race)". The classes can then, of course, be their favored class. If it is the fighter, for example, it would be "Fighter, Teoryran (3.5e Class)" and/or "Fighter, Teoryran Peasant (3.5e Class)". For the game mechanic changes you may have to make a rule or include it some way. When you have them made I can take a look at them and see if it makes sense. --Green Dragon 20:08, 22 May 2011 (MDT)

3.5e Campaign Setting Teoryran[edit]

Hello. I need some help for my setting. Teoryran World. How do I sort the pages correctly? User:Klas Wullt

What do you mean by sorting the pages? By category? By name? --Green Dragon 20:09, 22 May 2011 (MDT)

Thanks for the Offer. Here, I just made on class. Please take a took at it. Knight, Teoryran(3.5e Class).

Sorry for taking your time, I want two things!
I am writing lots of notes on my computer how to make the setting better
so I need to ask somethings.
  • About Categories
First, Sorry if I ask this, but I sort the pages by category?
  • About the Setting Points.
Second, what does it take to make my Setting improve from 3/5 where it is now to the 4/5 rating that I want?
Detailed starting adventures?, detailed city maps?
Yes, you should add Category:Teoryran Setting to the things which relate to Teoryran. To improve it, a discussion for its talk page, you should probably format Teoryran so one can find their way back, one can find all the pages about Teoryran, etc. Also deities, pantheons, character options, quests, encounters, and maybe more, and missing. --Green Dragon 12:47, 13 June 2011 (MDT)

Requests 4/5 points[edit]

I have added pantheons, gods and someother things. I dont have much game mechanical information yet. Please take a look after the updates. Thanks for your time.


Will finnishing all the classess for all the races?, raise the setting rating?

3.5e Equipment List - new category (Page editing locked)[edit]

Hi Green,

I'm a new user to Wiki & would appreciate some helpful advice :-)

Going to start a new D&D campaign this year with a Pirate theme. When people think of Pirates, thier main thoughts are Pirate Ships, Cannons, Flintlock Pistols & Cutlasses.

Flintlock's can easily be replaced with Hand Crossbow's, Cannons needed some more thought.

I do not want to introduce gunpowder into the campaign so as an alternative i've decided to go with Gnomish Engineering and introduce some clockwork & steampowered machinery (Steampunk) resulting in Steam Cannon's aboard ships

Decided the 3.5e equipment list therefore needs a new category of Gnome Engineering, a place for all things clockwork, steampowered or basic engineering (i.e. Piston Water Pumps)

I don't think this technolgy would change game balance as there are many ancient technologies that have been rediscovered such as the Baghdad Battery & Eygptian Piston Ballista

Created the Gnome Engineering category but can not link this category to the 3.5e Equipment list, as this page is locked for editing (for very good reasons, looks complicated)

Are you able to help?


--Mufasa 10:19, 23 May 2011 (MDT)

Blades Of Keran[edit]

I was wondering if someone could rate my campaign setting, Blades Of Keran. Also I agree with the above request about Gnomish Engineering as my campaign uses Gnomish Devices as well. --Milo High-Hill 17:08, 24 May 2011 (MDT)

Economist talk page[edit]

So, I was browsing through the recent talk page (as I often do), and I was confused by your recent actions on the talk page of the Economist. Care to elaborate? It seemed like someone asked a question on the discussion, and Jota responded with an answer to the question. You deleted the reply, and gave no reason as to why. Someone (a random IP) then went and undid you revert, presumably because you removed helpful and useful content without a reason. You blocked him for 3 months for edit warring, despite him only having a single contribution to the wiki. What happened to warnings? What happened to the increasing block length? Effectively, you banned someone from the wiki for 3 months because they undid one of your edits, which you made without any reason at all. What's going on? --Badger 21:05, 24 May 2011 (MDT)

This whole "other wiki" kerfuffle is getting out of hand. There's no reason this has to be a zero-sum game. JazzMan 21:30, 24 May 2011 (MDT)
The Warning Policy is only for when one does not edit with civility and etiquette. This is unrelated. Edit warring is a block reason on WIkipedia's policies and therefore effective on D&D Wiki. I don't mean it to be a zero-sum game, but when someone answers with (shortened) "this answer is irrelevant, look elsewhere" it's a obscuration of spamming to external sites. Another common block reason. --Green Dragon 21:47, 24 May 2011 (MDT)
The zero-sum part is black-holing any mention, however remote of another site*. It's either us or them. If they win, we lose (zero-sum). But there's no reason it has to be that way. Neither wiki is exactly crawling with people, and if we worked together instead of against each other (and looking rather silly while doing it, I might add), we would both be better off. JazzMan 22:12, 24 May 2011 (MDT) *Note, however, that it's only one site that gets people insta-blocked for a quarter. Other sites get mentioned without such severe penalties. In one case, I can think of a site that's mentioned multiple times that nobody seems to have any problem with...
Interesting, but D&D Wiki is not going to have a committee of people who are a self-appointed oligarchy who serve the same function as the improving, reviewing, and removing articles templates present. Additionally things on D&D Wiki cannot be stagnant, and things should improve when they can (e.g. user categories being replaced by Special:NewPages, Template:Author being superseded by history, etc). For example. --Green Dragon 22:26, 24 May 2011 (MDT)
GD, no one is telling you to change policy about reviewing content, or anything else of that ilk. Jazzman merely said, and I agree, that we should be allowed to say things exist. We have countless links to other forums and sites that host homebrew content, it seems foolish to block people for mentioning one in particular, no matter the history. We can all act like adults and just let it be. --Badger 22:40, 24 May 2011 (MDT)
Links are supposed to do though DnD Links. All other links are incorrect. However, as I see it, on userpages is okay as long as when one notices it they move it to DnD Links, because to me that seems more like the user is unaware or unknowing. However spamming of external links, yes, does get one banned. Does this kind of answer your question? --Green Dragon 23:59, 24 May 2011 (MDT)
So, by your own admission, Jota and everyone else can post links to their other wikis on their user page, but not in the main namespace? Seems fair to me. I'll go ahead and add links to DnD Links. I'll assume users can still write something like "If you have any other questions, leave a message on my talk page", where they can post links to other sites (as you said yourself, user pages are fine for external links). Alright, sounds good. I'm glad we've finally come to some sort of agreement on this. --Badger 01:05, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
No, that's taking it out of context. "on userpages is okay as long as when one notices it they move it to DnD Links" should be read as a full statement. Otherwise it's still a violation of policy. --Green Dragon 11:24, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
You're telling me that there shouldn't be any external links on User Pages then? I was under the impression that if they were also listed on DnD Links, that would be fine. Sometimes you'd want to give a more specific link, like say one to a particular article. The way you've phrased it, it seems like there should be no external links anywhere but on that DnD Links page. That doesn't make any sense at all. --Badger 13:50, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
Well, maybe something like the w: could be made (as a template) for each link. Really, however, one should just direct one to DnD Links (that's why they are {{#anc:}}'ed). --Green Dragon 13:41, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
I understand what you're saying. I'm saying why make someone go to DnD Links, and then search the other site, when you could just as easily link to the exact page in the first place? DnD Links is certainly a good page, and designed for ease of reference, but I think it works best as a general tool, and for specific purposes one might as well link directly from one page to another, without using DnD Links. --Badger 13:50, 25 May 2011 (MDT)

<-- Again, why? Can someone give me a reason why we are never allowed to link to other sites? I'm just not seeing the reasoning here other than to annex The Site Which Shall Not Be Named, and even that I can't see any good reasoning for. Hooper is allowed to link to O.G.R.E. (which has it's own wiki page, btw; we aren't even allowed to mention the Other Wiki) with no repercussions, but an anon who undid an outright deletion of a post that vaguely mentions That Other Wiki was banned, without warning, for 3 months. Did they murder your favorite pet or something? Will the site really blow up if I decide to link to some innocent site that doesn't happen to me mentioned on DnD Links (which, judging by the traffic on that page, nobody looks at anyway)?

Sadly, I've seen this exact same scenario on wikis before: site 1 does something that subset of the site doesn't like. Said subset creates their own wiki. Wiki 1 bans mentions of Wiki 2. Wiki 2 uses this as reasoning to orchestrate more and bigger attacks against Wiki 1. As the bickering continues both sites end up looking silly and losing who would otherwise be valuable members. The more we block them the more they will do things like Bird did, which are ultimately more harmful to the site than anything the users would do if we just played nice with them. JazzMan 15:40, 25 May 2011 (MDT)

So, should we do something like w: then? Currently, Hooper should not be linking to any site not by way of DnD Links. I'm just following policy, be it fledgling or not. --Green Dragon 16:00, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
I don't know what w: means. What I want to do is allow people to link to other sites without having to go through DND links first. If that's what w: is then yes, we should do that.
If Hooper's not allowed to link to these sites, then do you want to clean out his userpage and delete O.G.R.E.? Because I can't see the reason for it. JazzMan 17:03, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
Ironically, the best description I know of for the events that transpired is on the other wiki. A bunch of people decided to make a "rating committee". GD didn't like it. There was a bunch of silly squabbling, and the other wiki left, taking a ton of content and users with them. GD and everyone else were upset about who took what content, and the legality of that. Honestly, in my mind, this is the sort of thing that, after a week, could have blown over. Clearly we just need to share a beer, play some D&D, and realize how silly this fight is. Also, start allowing each other to link to each other's wikis. I can't speak with any certainty, but I am pretty sure they allow links to this wiki. --Badger 15:58, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
Go for it. I don't really want to do any cleaning out of userpages right now– I'm working on 4e Deities as it is. I agree this is silly, however if links really are needed then someone (again, I don't care to do this) should make something like how Template:Background Information (Halo Supplement) treats links for each link. --Green Dragon 17:11, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
I'm not going to delete O.G.R.E. because it doesn't bother me and I don't understand why it's not allowed. I don't want to go angering Hooper, who's contributions are numerous and high-quality, if I don't have to. If you have time to block people for mentioning one site, I'm not sure why you are too busy to block people for mentioning another site. So how about instead we just allow everyone to link to sites?
And if all we have to do in order to link to D&D wiki (err, the *other* one, anyway) is to create a template, then that's a piece of cake. Heck, I can make one that works even better than the one you linked to. Now everyone's happy! JazzMan 17:45, 25 May 2011 (MDT) (BTW Green Dragon, I think you are having problems with your browser. For some reason when you edit it deletes parts of the page on accident).
I'm not entirely sure why we need a template, especially one that would go at the bottom of the page like you linked. Maybe one at the top of the talk page? But, what would the template say, "This page contains external links. DanDWiki does not have any affiliation with any externally linked sites. Links do no necessarily reflect the views of DanDWiki and its owners"? --Badger 20:06, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
That's a good idea. And it could incorporate the switch extension. I just meant "like how Template:Background Information (Halo Supplement) treats links". --Green Dragon 20:29, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
How about this:
This page contains external links.
D&D Wiki does not have any affiliation with any externally linked sites.
Links do no necessarily reflect the views of D&D Wiki
It makes no sense to have a template for individual sites, or even as a way to include the link in the template. If it pleases the wiki, we can just make a {{template:external_link}} and go from there. Throw this up on a page, and we can have external links anywhere we want. Problem solved. --Badger 20:56, 25 May 2011 (MDT)
I don't like how obtrusive that is. I would prefer something much less obtrusive, comparable to an expansion of the MW external link symbol. For example: [www.address.{{{1}}}] ([[DnD Links#site|link information]] Externallink.png this external link does not have any affiliation with D&D Wiki) And, I would prefer having a hard list of sites because as the internet is full of sites with varying degrees of quality it is good to have some quality control over how it effects D&D Wiki. --Green Dragon 11:35, 26 May 2011 (MDT)
Ok, well, considering that external links already have an associated image (or at least a symbol), why don't you just include a line of text below the edit window (by which I mean below the line "You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!") that says something to the effect of "Links to external sites must be deemed appropriate; inappropriate links subject to removal. See DnD Links for list of appropriate links." and we'll just say any page or subpage of a link on the DnD Links page can be freely linked to. I think the problem with including a template in this process is that we already have a ton of templates that we don't use because they are confusing or hard to find. Considering there is already a button for external links, we might as well use that. --Badger 12:18, 26 May 2011 (MDT)
What are your thoughts on just making a policy which covers it and then adding text on DnD Links explaining it's function. --Green Dragon 17:27, 26 May 2011 (MDT)
That sounds like the best possible plan. We allow external links, add a line in the policy about external links, and a brief summary about what should and should not be linked on the DnD links page. I'm glad we've finally come to some sort of agreement, and don't require the use of templates or other things that may be confusing to new users. --Badger 19:35, 26 May 2011 (MDT)
I just wanted to comment on something said much earlier. It was "Note, however, that it's only one site that gets people insta-blocked for a quarter. Other sites get mentioned without such severe penalties. In one case, I can think of a site that's mentioned multiple times that nobody seems to have any problem with...". Not true. I literally was blocked on September 20th, 2009 after making four edits to that wiki - one redirecting a talk page to me, and three asking for a diff in a respectful manner. The block summary even stated some harsh thing. Don't pretend that one wiki is a white knight in this issue. I still don't understand why people won't just stay at their chosen wiki home, and ignore the other. (also, I only added the actual link because I'm understanding its now okay on talk pages? If thats not so delete it. I'm honestly having a hard time following.)
Now, as far as O.G.R.E.s is concerned. It is my understanding, and perhaps I am wrong in this understanding, that long ago it was decided not to link to "competing sites". OGREs may be another wiki (for now, but when our webmaster isn't paid, things take time) but it isn't a competing site. We're not looking for the same kind of content. Now maybe I'm wrong, and if so, delete it. But in my opinion, the D&D Other section is perfect for articles discussing the different gaming organizations and may be very pertinent to the common D&D Wiki browser's interest.   Hooper   talk    contribs    email   21:35, 29 May 2011 (MDT)
Even if they did block you, that's not really a good reason to insta-block them. Simply linking to that site isn't, in and of itself, a legitimate reason in my mind to block someone for 3 months, especially considering the specific case we were talking about. (Let's face it, were it anyone but GD, we might have thought the original reversion was vandalism; it is only because we saw his name beside it that we know it wasn't).
As for O.G.R.E, I don't actually think it should be deleted, just as I don't think links to the other wiki should be deleted. But as far as I can tell, there's no differentiation between what links we are allowed to link to. Under the current rules as written, if we insta-ban people for mentioning one, it's completely hypocritical to pretend links to the other don't even exist. I'm not actually arguing that we enforce the rules against all sites, I think we need to change the rule entirely. JazzMan 22:05, 29 May 2011 (MDT)
What's an instablock? The block was for edit warring, see also [1]. It's unrelated. I have no idea about O.G.R.E.. Is it on DnD Links? Has it been looked over? If it's anything like your video channel (which I have seen) then i'd be fine. Of course this discussion is for elsewhere. --Green Dragon 22:11, 29 May 2011 (MDT)
This is an insta-block. A user's very first ever edit was a reversion of unexplained deletion of Jota's response. The guy can't be accused of edit warring when there were (liberally) only 2 reverts, only one of which was this guy a participant. If we go by WP:3RR, it's not a revert war until one editor does three reverts in a 24-hour period. That editor hadn't even had three edits. (The IP you linked to, by the way, only had 2 reverts, and was never even given a warning before he was blocked for 3 months.) Not only that, but had an IP or a new user deleted Jota's comment without explanation, the reversion of said deletion would probably be given exception from the 3RR, because to all appearances, deleting someone else's talk page comments is usually itself vandalism. Adding them back almost never is. At worst, the two IPs should have been given an explanation of how what they were doing was not allowed, a warning to discontinue their actions, and maybe blocked for a day to cool down. JazzMan 08:34, 30 May 2011 (MDT) [2]
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