Talk:Stand User Variant (5e Class)

This page isn't for OC Stands

go here to post your fan made stuff https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/OC_Stands_(5e_Subclass)

Dear Reference

But why tho? -Spuddzilla

As I explained, I already put in the work in creating it before Houston posted his. I could simply delete it or give a different take on the same Stand. If you have any actual reasons as to why I should have done something different, and if so, what, my ears are open. --Ref3rence (talk) 15:13, 22 August 2019 (MDT)

There are what 159 Stands in all of Jojo's? You making a variant of a Stand that someone else made before you and has been working on it for a VERY long time kinda defeats the purpose of us making new Stands in the first place when we could just make variants of existing one's. I mean you don't see me making an Echoes Variant even though I finished mine on the exact day that DeltaBlade did their's. I accepted that I wasn't fast enough and moved on. I've talked to like 4 people and they agree that is absolutely wack. A suggestion would be maybe working with the brother Houston and giving Anubis more features at certain levels like Weather Report, The Star, and The World cause y'all could probably make a dope ass all rolled into one version. -

Fair enough. I appreciate the explanation past “but why tho”. I might actually join the discord for the sake of this archetype. For now, I will be moving the variant to the WIP page. --Ref3rence (talk) 16:16, 22 August 2019 (MDT)

I made an epic discord

Since Discord seems to be used by most creators on here I made a server for us all to join and chill and maybe help each other with Stands. Also since that one dude made a post on the wiki about it I got the idea. https://discord.gg/rZM4UpU here's the epic link -Spuddzilla (Spuddzilla#1518)

Time Erase and New Stand Type

HI, I would like to use King Alignment but I can't understand completely how Time Erase works (it's not a joke, I'm serious). So anyone could explain it to me? Anyway, I would like to add a type based on Whitenaske (So C-Moon and Made in Heaven too), I hope that it is okay.

Alright. So, during the time that is skipped, everyone does what they were doing and continue that process, so, say if you were going to punch someone, you would still punch that person, but no one will remember doing it. The user of the Stand can do whatever they want and are not locked to their movements that they would perform, allowing them to dodge attacks easily and set up favourable positions. User:Emeraldo_Sprashu (talk) 19:54, 1 March 2019 (BST)

Okay, now I understand it better. Thank you so much. Anyway I can't wait to see S&W alignment.

New Stand Type

Hi!I'm the guy who added to Haze and I thought about creating an alignment based on Soft and Wet, I have a few ideas, such as being able to knock targets prone by stealing their friction or something. Just thought I'd leave a message so you know that I added to Haze and am going to add S&W soon, if that's okay. User:Emeraldo Sprashu (talk) 01:33, 21 February 2019 (BST)

Clarification Request

I'm looking to play a World User, and I have some questions about Exchange Blows, specifically the usage of the term 'stack'

"Starting at 2nd level, When a Stand User is damaged by a hostile creature, you make a DC 11 constitution check. On a success, for every stack you have, you gain an extra attack when you or your stand uses a melee attack. You can only have up to your proficiency bonus amount of stacks. You can use your bonus action to roll a check for an extra stack of exchange blows, as long as you have at least 1. You may spend 1 stack to attack a creature, using either your or your stand's melee attack, that attacks you during their turn if they are within range without using a reaction. All stacks are removed once you can no longer fighting any hostile creatures."

Here stack is being used as a noun, and I don't know what it means. My current assumption is that 'stack' refers to the extra attacks on a 1:1 ratio, and that by passing the constitution check you gain a stack. But then there's the bit about spending stacks; does that mean giving up one of the extra attacks instead of a reaction action so you can use your reaction action later in the round for an opportunity attack or something?

Yes, the extra attacks don't consume stacks, but you can only use a number of extra attacks equal to the amount of stacks you are currently holding. By spending a stack to attack an enemy on their turn, you lose that extra attack until you get it back. StarFruit (talk) 20:35, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

But what are stacks? Are they what you get for passing the CON Check?

Slightly redid the description to be more clear about it. But yes, passing the CON check gives you 1 stack. Stacks, being used a noun and as its name implies, are basically like a buff/debuff that can stack on itself (i.e. 1 stack of Exchange Blows = 1 extra attack, so 3 stacks = 3 extra attacks and so on). Stacks may not always give a direct/immediate effect and may require you to spend it first, like how Stando Powa! (you gaining stacks) or The Star's Because You Pissed Me Off (other creatures gaining stacks) work. Stack count is always separate, so at level 15, you can have 5 stacks of Exchange Blows, 5 stacks of Stando Powa!, etc. StarFruit (talk) 05:25, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Incomplete Variants

The stand variants King and Hierophant do not exist on the page.

Added them. StarFruit (talk) 08:24, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Adventure pack and Alchemist pack?

These are not items in either the books or the wiki, did you mean to make these later on the adventuring gear page?

Changed them to existing items to make it more convenient for the moment. StarFruit (talk) 08:27, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

The Tusk alignment

Why is unarmed proficiency gained at 20th level instead of starting out with it or not having it at all? Also, The Tusk needs a feature at level 9. Furthermore, I would suggest a few changes to the stand so that its easier to manage when compared to other stands, such as decreasing the amount of time for nails to grow back (to match how it works in the series), increasing the damage to be better than actual bullets by giving it an extra damage die (also part of the series), and being able to expend 1 spirit point to regain all of nail bullets. StarFruit (talk) 16:32, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

deleting the stands

the class needs deletion the class super broken when used dms can not touch players and the class breaks the game over all rewriting time it self is not allowed in the game that is why the class should be deleted StarFruit (talk) 22:44, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

New Stands

Hi. I'm the guy who wrote the majority of the Chariot and Experience archetypes and have been thinking about doing another archetype. My idea is Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap. If anyone wants to help me plan out this archetype or has a different idea let me know. Darksbane (talk)

Sex Pistol

gonna attempt a sex pistol stand archetype if anything should be noted please respond Balanced (talk) 07:53, 28 September 2017 (MDT)

Balance Suggestion

As a caveat to all this, It's probably best if this class starts at a lower level, seeing as it is distinctly superior to other classes and would therein incur increased challenge rating. Perhaps 2 levels lower, starting at -1, but still requiring 1000XP to reach level 0, 2000XP to reach level 1 and so on. Also, basic, reduced Barbarian stats would be used until level 1, where the class abilities and stats would finally shine at level 1, and the player then gains their Stand. This will also cause them to level up slower, but ultimately be met with greater reward, being able to wield a challenge rating 22 character. If it needs further backpedaling to become fair starting at level -2 or even -3, then that would be fine, but there's two simple reasons the abilities themselves should remain the same. One: we've all seen more OP things in D&D. I once played as a gold dragon, and let me tell you, that made this look like being a goblin without a class, and 5 for all your stats. Two: it's all very representative of the show. These are abilities the characters have, and are recreated impeccably. Yes, they may be distinctly stronger than standard people abilities, but of course they are. You'd struggle to find a normal man who could dwarf a Stand User on their own terms. They are immensely powerful in the show, so why be different here? So I say we balance it by making them earn it. Train to achieve such power, and start without the talent many players start with. You want to be a god among men? Then work your way up that ladder, grit your teeth, and prove you deserve it. Have the DM polish the abilities up at their own discretion(there should really be a way to make those The World reanimates permanent, even if weakened), and you've got the whole thing worked out. Anyway, that's my bit, and after testing this with my playgroup, I have to say it works quite well. If you've got a better idea, put a paragraph under mine. Let's get a discussion going.

Can you delete my class I helped with permanently

I have helped made this class and it has caused problems in so many campaigns can you have this be deleted permanently please it would fix so many issues that I'm having with other players. leo speedstien (talk) 9:23, 21 September 2017 (MDT)

Not like this. There is a standard precedure, but I don't see this as a candidate for deletion. --Green Dragon (talk) 11:10, 21 September 2017 (MDT)

Can you elaborate please? What problems has this class caused? Why didn't you fix those problems instead of complaining about them? Why not just disallow the class in your home game? — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email)‎ . . 11:36, 21 September 2017 (MDT)

Possible Balance for Star Platinum and core stand powers.

- Recommend that the stand saving throws are either full damage or no damage. Lowering to half or none makes him brush off possible magic and environmental checks. Although based on strong anime protagonist you must focus on features of the game to be challenging enough to be killed and rely on the party for support. - Star Finger: Cost should be 1 spirit point and last until the end of combat. Decrease range to 10ft instead of 30. Archer or ranged character to back up clearly brawler based class for suppressing fire. Usage should be situational for piercing vs bashing. Keep dice pool low if keeping AC ignore. - Endurance: Although you have the manly men in mind for prone ignorance, many of the show's characters still got knocked down and prone is a very important part of the game. Although the idea for use of a SP to escape grapple, the number in the later levels can cause this to become problematic. Recommend either lowering the number of SP for higher levels or removing the aspect entirely. - Ari Ari Arrivederci: Have players make a choice between charmed or frightened. Both can lead to fun and interesting scenarios.

General note: Having God Mode when level 20 is always fun, but when a character can ignore many status effects they become too hard to fight unless it's a slugfest. But higher level monsters might have to hit too hard to compensate for lack of hindering abilities and creative fights. I love this class, I centred my entire campaign around stands being guardians of the multiverse, but the players need to be able to have a few funny or combative character flaws. Being charmed by a bar wentch using magic is what got my stand user into a heaping pile of mess that made him king of the land. If my player can take a Vampire Lord using The World while using Star Platinum after dumbing both down and with the assistance of the party, they don't need to be so strong. No Crusader ever truly stood tall alone.

Your comments sound good. Be bold and make your fixes. --Green Dragon (talk) 22:46, 4 January 2018 (MST)

Stand Proficiency Clarification

I have a question about the how the Stands attack. It says in several of the subclasses that the stand gains proficiency in unarmed strikes and use a d4 for the attack. Does this mean that the ones that don't have this still do 1 damage with unarmed strikes? Can the stands hold and use weapons? And sub-point, what are the gauntlet's stats? Like do they replace unarmed strike with a damage die?

- I second this. Maybe the gauntlets provide bonus stats to unarmed strikes or something like that. Also I am pretty sure the Chariot Alignment can hold weapons, I dunno about the other ones.

Balancing

First off, I think that for this class to truly be balanced, you can only take this class at level 1 and from there, you can not multiclass. Second, remove some of the op healing factors from the World and Diamond. It already is mostly balanced because this class can not cast spells and are somewhat helpless against a spellcaster with stuff like bane. Also, what on earth is Battle Focus Mitigation. As far as I know, that is not a thing in the fifth edition. Also some of the level 20 stuff is kinda stupidly broken. Particulary the World and Chariot, as they both can do absolutly anything. The game still continues after level 20, so maybe nerf this a tad. Otherwise I think you have a semi balanced class that lacks all power magic wise but focuses it all into physical combat prowess.

Am I the only one that saw the april fools warning? the focus of an april fools class is to be funny or broken. at least thats what i thought. The Archmage Karsus (talk) 09:27, 11 January 2021 (MST)

Harvest stand alignment

Hi, I read The description for this class and one of the possibilities was that you could be a con artist. I feel like none of the alignments can be that. That is when I thought of the stand Harvest. Can someone give me an idea for how to make that stand. Or if someone could make it for me

THE HAND

Hi, I noticed that it doesnt say whether or not the hand has a cap to its strength stat, and I was just looking for clarification as to whether or not it has a cap

So i was fairly certain that stands were assumed to be able to go up to thirty because stands are supposed to be much stronger and capable than humans. Should we edit the main class to say that stand stat's can go to thirty or should it be specified in subclasses?-C. Stalin

Personally I'd say clarify that they can all go up to thirty

New Stand Ideas/Obtaining Permissions

Hi everyone! I’ve read through the entire page and loved every moment of it. I was wondering what the process of submitting and posting stand archetype ideas was, as I already have several in mind (Aerosmith, Heaven’s Door, Magician’s Red, and Echoes.) --Deltablade27 (talk) 14:24, 20 June 2019 (MDT)

Howdy! As a normal page on this wiki, there isn’t exactly a process, you simply add it. However, please be sure that these ideas are fully fledged and fit the general formatting of the others (I.E. not the current Pistols archetype) --Ref3rence (talk) 08:19, 25 June 2019 (MDT)

Echoes and Sticky Fingers

Added Echoes and Sticky Fingers alignments. Check them out! Deltablade27 (talk) 20:48, 30 June 2019 (MDT)

Stand Ideas

Howdy everyone! I know that there's no real process to submitting, but I have a question. I know that this is meant for the part 3-8 stands, but I got some really interesting "custom/homebrew" stands that I thought of. I was wondering if I could put some of them down. I understand if I couldn't, but I've got some cool ideas brewing with the ones I made. -Squid --SquidCalamari (talk) 1:15, 11 August 2019 (PDT)

If i were you, I would create a subclass page for OC Stands, that is to say not just for 1 stand, and leave a link on the main page directly under the Archetypes tab. --Ref3rence (talk) 17:05, 12 August 2019 (MDT)

That seems to be the way Ref! Thanks for the idea on how to add OCs. I have a couple in mind, so it wont be barren for long. --SquidCalamari (talk) 18:07, 12 August 2019 (PDT)

Discord Server?

Recently a lot of the creators have been posting their discord's in their notes sections. Now knowing the prevalence of discord among creators it shouldn't be too far out of the way to have a discord server for this page. Within it it would be possible to have suggestions as well as feedback from other players that may use this page

Hanged Man

Hey Delta. Can’t help but notice that you completely deleted the last archetype I added. While I personally agree that it was not my best work, I don’t believe that warrants complete deletion. At the very worst, maybe we create a page for WIP archetypes and move it there, but total deletion seems a bit drastic. I just want to have a dialogue about it. --Ref3rence (talk) 14:08, 19 August 2019 (MDT)

I thought hanged man was great; perhaps I deleted it on accident. I’ll be more careful when editing from now on, and I apologize for the inconvenience. Deltablade27 (talk) 16:04, 20 August 2019 (MDT)

I apologize as well. I was admittedly confrontational and, if anything, your mistake made me reconsider certain balance issues. I am going to make that WIP archetype page, though, as something of a shared workspace. --Ref3rence (talk) 16:50, 20 August 2019 (MDT)

Wonder Of U Stand in here?

hey, I'm pobo, ive been looking at this page for a while now, reading it when bored and such, and I've decided why not pitch in. Should there be a Wonder of U stand for this? Or is there not enough information/moves to make it? Pobo459 (talk) 19:14, 19 August 2020 (MDT)

Just use four tildes, like this ~~~~. SirSprinkles (talk) 19:07, 19 August 2020 (MDT)

Hey Pobo, I'm the guy who made a ton of the Stands on this class. You're free to go on ahead and add any canon material you want to this class, and I think there's plenty of content for Wonder of U, though it might get updated later if part 8 introduces any new content for it. I'd also suggest working on any of the WIP Stands or minor Stands if you want to contribute even more.

Stand Variants?

Hi, I have used this class a ton in campaigns and was wondering something. If I were to make versions of stands based on their AU forms, should it be variant features under the original class, or would I make separate alignments entirely? Specifically, I was thinking about KQAU and TWAU, which both have entirely different abilities and fighting styles, but also some of the same from their counterparts. One last thing. If I were to make a stand based on a popular work of the community, such as Charmy Green or King Crimson AU, would I put that here or OC stands? I ask this because there are stands from Jorge Joestar on here, which are neither cannon or made by Araki, and most of which are fanmade stands besides for the ones which already exist. Thanks! --Fellow creator, Picigu9 (talk) 12:10, 27 October 2020 (MDT)

For the sake of this page, I have been using the term "OC" as those outside of any published works. The AU versions should fit in around their respective appearances (i.e. TWAU should be after DISCO, KQAU after NKC) on this page, and Charmy Green should be put above the Jorge Stands, since CiW came out before Jorge. --Ref3rence (talk) 12:43, 27 October 2020 (MDT)

Supplement

I have been kicking around the idea of slapping the supplement tag on this class for a while. The April Fools tag only applies to classes intentionally trying to be funny, and not to be broken/to ignore class design guidelines, nor would a Design Disclaimer. The only two real options are to make this a user page (which won't be happening for obvious reasons), or to make it a campaign setting supplement. While it's a bit of a shame to see such a wonderful page gone from the main class page, it honestly shouldn't have been in the first place. Any thoughts? --Ref3rence (talk) 10:11, 12 January 2021 (MST)

Page Size

This page is extremely long and would probably benefit from being split up. — Geodude (talk | contribs | email)‎‎ . . 13:37, 14 April 2021 (MDT)

Beyond Level 20

I am on a server that is utilizing 2C gamings epic classes.

We also use a lot of homebrew, and some of it straight forward to increase the levels. So ultimately.. I don't need help for each stand. What would be 4 more features a Stand user would get beyond level 20? 4 features is what they would get. Everything else is basic leveling up stuff. More feat, Asi, 1 sub class feature. Im racking my brain on it. So any help would be useful. Even just a direction to improve them further.

--Chaostian (talk) 08:25, 8 July 2021 (MDT)

The Additional Basic Stand Abilities should make due for now, but I will add additional features shortly.--Ref3rence (talk) 10:52, 8 July 2021 (MDT)

The section has been renamed to Additional Features, and has been greatly expanded.--Ref3rence (talk) 13:20, 8 July 2021 (MDT)

Design disclaimer

I just looked over the page again and saw that it has the April Fools template,and I don't think it is appripriate for the page,since the page isn't made as a joke and its intentions aren't comedic

I do think the Design disclaimer template would be more appropriate,since the page does willfully deviate from a lot of the fifth edition design mindset and practices,and the way in which this class is different from normal ones could be explained. vladulenta (talk)

I've actually been kicking around a similar idea for a while (see Supplement), but ended up not getting enough feedback, so thanks! You're absolutely right, while at one point this page was comedically overcomplicated, that has since changed greatly.--Ref3rence (talk) 10:01, 10 July 2021 (MDT)

What do Stands count as

I'm trying to make a stand character but are the stands another character entirely or something else 8 January 2022 https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User_talk:RedM619

Stands could technically be defined as other creatures (not including phenomenon stands), but the distinction doesn't really matter, since they can only act when you act, and you take its damage and effects. Also, you can autogenerate a signature here with ~~~~ .--Ref3rence (talk) 10:35, 8 January 2022 (MST)

soooo another character sheet? RedM619 (talk) 14:31, 9 January 2022 (MST)

Not necessarily as long as you can keep track of their unique ability scores (most only have 2) in a convenient way. They're basically just a second space a player occupies with some buffs and unique features. You can if you want, but it's not really necessary--Ref3rence (talk) 14:04, 10 January 2022 (MST)

Ah ok do stands have their own attack reaction and stuff like that or do we Shear the attack actions and the such. RedM619 (talk) 15:44, 12 January 2022 (MST) also, what is the Stand User Path Feature RedM619 (talk) 16:18, 12 January 2022 (MST)

While it's kinda awkwardly worded, the intent is that you and your Stand share the same actions, but both have their own movement speed. Whenever the table lists a Stand User Path Feature, you gain a feature from your Stand User Path, as stated under that feature.--Ref3rence (talk) 12:18, 13 January 2022 (MST)

Removing Exchange Blows

After playing around with Extra Attack instead of Exchange Blows, I think it might be time to remove Exchange Blows. It's incredibly cumbersome and only serves to make balancing anything involving this class a pain. On a similar note, how would people feel about fully replacing the original The World archetype with the variant? It would make balancing it a whole lot easier (maybe even being generally playable), and would just make more sense since this class granting vampiric powers only made sense when sideshow wasn't a class.--Ref3rence (talk) 00:14, 17 August 2023 (MDT)

Please do not do so at this moment, there is a rework that is planned on being done some point in the near future, I personally do not believe exchange blows needs to be removed and would rather it not be removed due to it being a rather intrinsic feature to the class which many things have been build off of, also please do not delete normal the world and replace it with its variant when I was writing it it was meant to be specifically the world if its user was not a vampire and was designed to be weaker than a vampiric the world.

Additionally, please join the discord for future discussion revolving around this class as it is where most discussion happens.--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Delguin (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

I was planning on reworking features that operate on Exchange Blows along with these changes, the main issue there is that a Stand User is out-attacking a Fighter at pretty much every opportunity for a 2-level dip, and that it's incredibly cumbersome (it adds a saving throw to every instance of damage, gives the player 3+ resources that are constantly increasing and decreasing, potentially multiple times a turn, which massively slows down combat). I understand that variant The World is meant to be The World without vampiric powers, my point was that the Sideshow class already covers general vampiric abilities and there's no reason that being a stand user should grant vampiric powers by itself, assuming this is meant to be within the JJBA Setting as it has the category and disclaimer. In both issues, a feature already being written down is no reason to keep it there if there are issues with it. I have no desire to join a discord as I believe that any discussion on changing wiki content should be on the wiki itself for documentation purposes. A compromise may be for me to just remove the JJBA Setting category and create a variant exclusively for the setting.--Ref3rence (talk) 09:26, 17 August 2023 (MDT)

If you do not wish to join the discord, then please refrain from making those edits. While I understand it is your belief that all discussion about changing wiki content should be done on the wiki that is not how things are for stand user variant, there is an alternative easier form of communication that is less tiresome. If you change your mind, you are always welcome to join the discord to gain approval for big changes like this. --Delguin (talk) 11:34, 17 August 2023 (MDT)

Edit: Forgot to note this, if you want to create your own stand user class you can if you want to but that's up to you. Its not our problem and is completely fine. --Delguin (talk) 11:38, 17 August 2023 (MDT) ( Also wanted to mention that im sorry if any of that came out as rude, I am just bad with social interaction --Delguin (talk) 12:09, 17 August 2023 (MDT) )

While I'm not the person who made the class, my first edit was in February of 2019 (back when I was much less experienced in making homebrew) and I've worked on this class consistently since (I added 61 archetypes over those 4 years and much of the Minor Stands sections IIRC, 62 if you include making Pistols playable), so not only am I a bit invested in this class, but I have experienced how this class, among others, grew, changed, and improved on this wiki without a discord holding sole ownership over a page, which itself implies ownership that is counter to the standards of this wiki. At the very least, if discussion here is so cumbersome it would seem much more reasonable to me for those in the discord to come to a consensus on the topic, then address the issues presented in a single post instead of completely sidestepping them. Still, I've gone ahead and started working on a variant exclusively for the JJBA Setting for simplicity and intra-setting consistency.--Ref3rence (talk) 13:04, 17 August 2023 (MDT)

Hey Reference changing Exchange Blows right now might not be the best idea as we are currently brainstorming a rework of the systems for the base class right now in a way to hopefully give it more customization on a stand by stand basis or just for balancing purposes. We agree that Exchange Blows is problematic and needs to be changed or removed but at least a bit of people use this homebrew and just axing it out of the blue may not be the way to go. I'd suggest we just make a disclaimer under the feature to let DM's know that the feat is pretty strong and that in their own rulings they can nerf it or just not allow the feat. Delguin didn't mean to come off as rude if they did towards you they were just worried. About the Discord though, we're brainstorming ideas for the rework but it's just me and Delguin mostly and we'd be delighted if you'd join to work on the rework with us if you'd have the time. I have my own ideas and I'm sure Delguin has theirs as well and you probably do too. We're sorry if any of this came off as harsh or rude in any way but the invitation to the discord stands if you wanna help us or just hang out.

- Spuddzilla 2:21 (US EST)

Hey Spudd, great to see you again, it's been a while. I'm not offended in any way and it's great to see that people still care about this class; I had no idea an overhaul was in the works. Were I intending to axe Exchange Blows without any other opinions, I wouldn't have posted it as a discussion topic. I wish you both only the best of luck in making this overhaul, though by the nature of making my own overhaul I will unlikely be able to help out here.--Ref3rence (talk) 13:04, 17 August 2023 (MDT)