Talk:Captain America (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

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Improved Unarmed Strike[edit]

Are you telling me Captain America didn't have Improved Unarmed Strike? —Sledged (talk) 13:15, 1 August 2007 (MDT)

Ya, I know he does. Unfortunately, the tournament demands that I have to be 11th level, thus it doesn't allow me to go for that. If I were to continue this build to 20th level, you bet your ass he would get that as well as Improved Grapple and Improved Natural Attack. Maybe even more in for some monk levels. -- Flession 14:08, 1 August 2007 (MDT)
You're missing your level 4 fighter bonus feat. You can take improved unarmed strike with that. -- (Jarrod)
No, it's that Shield Throw is at the wrong level. —Sledged (talk) 09:41, 16 March 2008 (MDT)
However, this build is missing the feat gained at 6th-level. —Sledged (talk) 10:37, 16 March 2008 (MDT)
Thanks for pointing that out. I guess I have Improved Unarmed Strike now :) -- Flession 00:44, 27 June 2008 (MDT)

What about the bloodstorm blade PRC from Tome of Battle? Couple neat abilities in there:

Returning Attacks (Ex): You can hurl your weapon at a foe and command it to ricochet back to you. Any weapon you throw behaves as though it has the returning special ability (DMG 225). When you use returning attacks, you lose the use of one Iron Heart strike you have readied for the current encounter, just as if you had initiated the strike (except you do not also gain the strike’s normal effect). Once you use this ability, you can recover the maneuver you expended and use it normally. Throw Anything: As an initiate of the mysteries of the bloodstorm technique, you learn to throw swords as easily as others hurl daggers. You gain Throw Anything (see the sidebar) as a bonus feat.

That is quite a good ability. You just need to find a DM that will actually allow Tome of Battle. It is quite the twinked book, you know. -- Flession 01:06, 31 January 2009 (MST)

Wouldn't a spiked bashing shield be 3d6 damage? 1d6 for normal >1d8 for spiked, >3d6 Bashing Spiked?

Ahh. I didn't notice that, Thank you mystery person! -- Flession 20:02, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
No, it wouldn't because a normal Medium heavy shield does 1d4, not 1d6. —Sledged (talk 20:16, 30 August 2009 (MDT)


How is there no optimization involved with this build? You have a decently ranged, damaging, sundering shield that returns to you. Most bows don't get that high without certain tricks attached to it (although they shoot farther, yes). You keep the maximum BAB, have a decent reflex. It's not like a certain Kobold build, but this one can be quite effective in combat. I've tested it out already and I got pretty damn far in that contest with it. -- Flession 20:12, 30 August 2009 (MDT)

A user known as Ghostwheel did this to alot of build pages. Don't worry, as long as you are around to defend, nothing's going to happen. --TheWarforgedArtificer 20:15, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
Ahh good. I do wish I could be around more, but since work blocked out my useage of this site, I can only get on here with my own personal time. I love this site. However, if someone comes around and tries to delete my stuff without good reason, you can bet your ass I'll make time. :) -- Flession 20:25, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
Compare the damage to other ranged damage builds. Furthermore, at the listed level the weapon costs 34k gp which by itself is more than half the wealth a character has at that level. Furthermore, since you're not carrying multiple shields and throwing each one, you can only throw your shield 1/round, which means that tops you're doing around 3d6+str (x1.5?) damage in a single round--if you hit. At level 11, that's far from optimized. --Ghostwheel 21:14, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
In this case, I think, the optimization is how closely it emulates Captain America, rather than strictly how strong it is in game terms. Optimized doesn't specifically refer to what is optimized, so, well, I don't know, it's a little fishy. Under that logic we could allow most of the optimizations you (Ghostwheel) called half-optimizations or non-optimizations (such as the Reflexman), they just wouldn't have gameplay significance... perhaps we could tag them with April Fools instead? Or maybe some other (new) category that denotes optimization without practical application? For example, a player wants to be a ninja (Naruto). Rather than making a new class, there could be an optimization called Ninja, Naruto that's something like Monk 2/Rogue 6/Swordsage 6/Warlock 6 (just pulling numbers and class out of my ass). Maybe just call the new category Category:Character Build, and optimized ones could be a subcategory? -- Jota 21:26, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
Good idea--perhaps a "flavorful optimization" category? That way those builds and others too can be added to it, where they would try to show off a concept rather than actual optimization (which is all about the numbers, and flavor is assumed to be mutable). --Ghostwheel 21:30, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
Yeah, I don't really care what you want to call it, just something to that effect. -- Jota 22:00, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
I don't know how to make a category, or I would... How does one do so? --Ghostwheel 22:02, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
A "The Super Flavor Build Optimization Category of Epic Fabulous-i-ness, without Onions or Pickles". (...Its a work-in-progress title) --Jay Freedman 22:06, 30 August 2009 (MDT)

←Reverted indentation to one colon

Category Creation. I'd do it myself, but I really need to be getting to sleep as soon as possible. -- Jota 23:40, 30 August 2009 (MDT)
This was a good idea, maybe we should break down the difference on the main Optimized Builds page too.   Hooper   talk    contribs    email   07:37, 31 August 2009 (MDT)
That is something agreeable. As I said, I made this for a tournament that we had to come up with a really cheesy character build. Combat wise, I really only needed 1 shot per round. With the master thrower 5, hitting two people at once made this thing deadly. Plus, destroying weapons, armor, etc, from that far of a range made it survive 26 rounds of HARDCORE cheese. It fought against a [Dragon subtype Shambling Mound, trapped in a cage made that sprung constant electrical damage to boost up its CON and make its breath weapon even deadlier. Thanks to the 60 foot range I got from it, I managed to take it out from afar, it saved our asses. Don't underestimate shield throwers. But, yea, it's basically a Captain America, so if you wanna toss it in another location, then do so. I just don't want to delete it, as it is a powerful build in the right hands. --Flession 20:20, 31 August 2009 (MDT)
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