Talk:Winged Elf (5e Subrace)
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The Avariel Frailty. need to be explained more and the Wings. is to fast so the +10 should be removed, because what if the Avariel is a monk then the flying speed would be too much. Azernath (talk) 11:36, 12 February 2015 (MST)
- I don't think that PCs should have access to unlimited flight till about level 5. Marasmusine (talk) 15:38, 12 February 2015 (MST)
No worries, hit dice reduction explained a little more. Regarding the flight speed, I felt that in general, winged flight is faster than standard ground movement, and should be represented in such a manner. I've changed it to base movement speed or 40 feet, whichever is higher. Would this be better? This should reduce some of the possible excessive movement combinations, but not detract from overall increased maneuverability.
In regards to unlimited flight before a certain level, that would effectively be in the hands of the DM to decide, and can easily be ruled out of campaigns.
- The DM might be running an adventure not of her own design (such as a published adventure) that make assumptions about the mobility of PCs. At low levels, it is not expected that a PC can "fly to the top of the tower" or "burrow into the final room". 3rd edition resolved this by giving flying PCs an LA, and in 4th edition by capping altitude (as with the Pixie). Consider adding a similar limitation here, have full flight unlocked at 5th level, or I can add a Design Disclaimer template. Marasmusine (talk) 01:43, 13 February 2015 (MST)
- A design disclaimer template would be fine, I think.
- I would rather not add a limitation to flight that in effect detracts from the sub-race as a whole (as with Frailty there is already one negative applied to balance the extra mobility a little more) that is also not seen anywhere else in any of the three current core books regarding natural flight. A race born with wings, capable of flying from an early age, and with elven maturity rates would have near a century of flight experience. It just wouldn't make a great deal of sense to have a flight limitation, especially as flight is the most defining feature of the subrace.
- I do understand your point, but I feel the disclaimer should be enough.
- Out of curiosity, what kind of limitations would you consider adding? Fly for X number of time equal to X value (Con mod, athletics mod, etc)? Fly for set time? Perhaps something regarding encumbrance?
- As I say, the only issue I see with flight is the accessibility expectations for low-level adventures. There are also combat expectations: a flying ranged character can defeat ground melee monsters without retaliation. The only fix I can think of is an altitude cap that is removed at 5th level. A "negative trait" doesn't balance this, and I would scrap Frailty (it strongly discourages d4 classes).
- A design disclaimer will alert DMs that encounters and locations need to be designed with this PC in mind, but we should at least have a variant that can be dropped into any campaign.
- The speed of 40 is fine. Marasmusine (talk) 06:35, 15 February 2015 (MST)
- Whilst I understand with Frailty discouraging the lower HD classes, I would like something to represent the 'hollow bones' aspect of the race. I'd rather not throw in a Con negative as I feel that effects overall physical endurance and hardiness than generally being 'softer'. With the overall maneuverability increase, I don't so much see it as a true -balance- but more of an off-set, and would like to keep something similar. Would you have any possibilities to replace that with, or should I remove it all together?
- Regarding the design disclaimer, would this be considered acceptable?
- Design Disclaimer: Special attention should be given to the flight maneuverability of an Avariel when used as a PC subrace. Encounters and locations should be designed or altered with this kept in mind.
- Cheers for the disclaimer suggestion, by the way. Kahz (talk) 01:53, 16 February 2015 (MST)
- Here's a really simple suggestion:
- Hollow Bones. You have vulnerability to bludgeoning damage.
- Marasmusine (talk) 03:37, 16 February 2015 (MST)
- The Vulnerability crossed my mind, and I do quite like it. Now been added for the simplicity in place of Frailty.
- Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far, and especially for the added disclaimer on the page :)--Kahz (talk) 05:29, 16 February 2015 (MST)
- I made those changes just to see how they will effect the gameplay if you want to say it. The change in the vulnerability to bludgeoning damage because if you are wearing a heavy armor then the vulnerability is sure to be gone. As for the speed change it is going to be the same if the PC have Dex modifier of 14, so this change is to those who level high enough in Dex because I noticed that medium size monsters have a higher flying speed then 40 feet. I am trying the changes to see how good they are. Azernath (talk) 08:42, 26 February 2015 (MST)
- The Aarockra had a lower starting speed but no reductions. --OwenLeaf (talk) 13:46, 27 March 2015 (MDT)
With the Winged Elf disadvantage with their weak body I think it is enough to have only one of them so that the player can choose either less speed or the need to have heavy armor. Azernath (talk) 15:33, 27 March 2015 (MDT)