Talk:God Seeker (5e Class)
From D&D Wiki
Lets take a closer look at this class, because at a glance it appears to be extremely broken. See Class Do's and Don'ts (5e Guideline) as well. This class also has very few features that do not focus on combat, and has very little fluff.
- Hit Dice. 1d10 is average for a martial class
- Proficiencies. Everything looks good, 3 skill proficiencies may be too much if the class is given other skill proficiencies
- Equipment. You don't gain proficiency in simple melee weapons so why are they an option for the class? Also what are Torture Tools and an Extreme Teen Bible?
- Unarmored Defense. This unarmored defense is extremely powerful compared to other unarmored defenses as it uses Strength instead of Dexterity(how does being physically stronger correlate to higher evasion?) and uses your Constitution which you will focus anyway. Plus, you can use shields with it.
- Two-Weapon Fighting. This is strong and reasonable well balanced feature as long as you don't gain more offensive features besides extra attacks. It probably needs to mention that you can not use lances to ensure the feature is not overpowered.
- Dual Wielder. This is really strong feature at 2nd level that needs to be gained at a much higher level or removed.
- Fist of God. This is a useless feature until 11th level after which it is better than two weapon fighting. This feature should probably be removed as the class doesn't specialize in unarmed strikes, it specializes in two weapon fighting.
- Extra Attack. This class should not gain access to 4 attacks because it has numerous features that boost the damage output of the class. With all the other powerful combat features, this class should have 2 attacks.
- Ascension. This feature is fine as long as there are not more features that give skill proficiencies.
- Unbending Will. You should only be able to use this feature once.
- Imago Deus. Automatic critical hits should not exist, this feature is extremely broken and needs to be removed.
- Divine Aura. This quite a unique class feature, and is situationally very strong.
- Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. This is basically like another extra attack and 5e does not have penalties it uses disadvantage. This feature could be kept and moved around to a different level to better balance the class.
- Eyes of A God. Where is the first critical hit chance increase?
- Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Looks fine, may need a minor wording change.
- Fall from Grace. Everything about this is wrong. It has at-will automatic successes on skill checks and you can do it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus.
- Nemesis. What kind of attack?
- Adversus Deus. This is extremely broken as it gives you evasion for 2 ability scores and you can treat saving throws from one ability score as another.
My review ends here as I can see the rest of the subclass features being broken or overpowered in one way or another. From now on, I will be making numerous changes to the class to properly balance it.--Blobby383b (talk) 22:10, 26 December 2017 (MST)
- Soul Bound seems underpowered. Also, I've been considering making this class something or other something else, so this is a good chance to repurpose it from others.--Yanied (talk) 17:56, 28 December 2017 (MST)
- See Help:Legal, users who post pages onto the wiki retain no ownership of said pages. Making a page private means using your user page as homebrew content posted to site is open to be edited by everyone. As shown at the bottom of every edit box, including the one I am currently typing this message into, there is a message that says "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." If you truly do not want anyone else to edit a page, you can move it into your userspace, where other users are not allowed to edit, except for administrators to remove content that breaks sitewide rules. If you want to copy an paste a previous version(or any other version) of the page over to User:Yanied/WIP/1, that is fine, but don't undo efforts made to balance the class.--Blobby383b (talk) 19:08, 28 December 2017 (MST)
- Ah, no problem. It'll be hopefully out of existence soon. The problem is I see now the content I originally intended is probably too much. But I can't tame it without deviating from my original idea a great deal. So I think it's better to just remove it. I saw language about contacting the original creator in the Wendigo class but I didn't bother copying it.--Yanied (talk) 19:19, 28 December 2017 (MST)
- Let me rephrase what I was trying to say more clearly; just because a page deviates from a certain path a creator intended doesn't mean the creator and up and delete the class if others had a hand in their work and especially if they don't wish it to be deleted. The Help:Legal page says "Technically, every author has shared a part in the page's current state. Trying to remove it from the wiki as being under copyright by yourself would actually be a violation of the original license the work was published under, because there are now actual people who can contest your claim.") A wiki is meant to get pages to a good state through working with other users. I meticulously went through the class looking to balance and review it. After I reviewed it, I replaced more than half of the features with new features and better balanced the class based on the framework of a class you created. To now undo all that work done on the class by other users beside yourself because the class is not what was originally intended, is actually pretty insulting. I am willing to talk about what could be done to change the class, but I do not want the class to be outright deleted.--Blobby383b (talk) 22:07, 28 December 2017 (MST)
- That makes more sense then. Well to start, the Soul Bound seems out of place with Hell Raiser because it is after all, a level 20 feature for a DPS class. It should probably have a feature that has to do with battle and evasion in combat rather than avoiding death saves, as this class was also originally with the intention to be a rather powerful tank. Since that was impossible, it was given Nyx so as to avoid damage altogether, making it a rather unique feature.
- On Unbending Will, I do believe I've seen a class or two with at least twice the frequency of use.
- If Dual Wielder was too powerful a class, I'd rather have the trait moved further down than have it changed or nerfed completely to be given at a low level.
- With the idea of dual weapon wielding comes paired the idea of extra attacks for this class. So instead of deleting extra attacks, it might have been better to lower the DPS per attack rather than lower attack count.
- On Imago Deus, I'm wondering why they "should" not exist. If they already exist, then perhaps it is possible to balance it with something else. If they do not, then this class can retain it as another unique feature that can still be worked around.
- Fall from Grace could have been limited in skill check success variety and simply reduced in frequency of use rather than replaced
- There is now a strange emphasis placed on the class on knowledge and noncombat aspects which I guess is ok if the role of DPS-er is thrown away. But the class was originally focused solely on combat so as to give it a tangible role in a party.
I'm surprised if you feel insulted because of the reversions. That was little my intention nor worry. As for deletion, it was a mistake to use the Master of Ceremonies as a skeleton, so it's better something else be made instead. This page will just remain however.--Yanied (talk) 10:06, 29 December 2017 (MST)
- I believe I have now replaced Soul Bound with an adequate fighting/reaction based feature.
- On Unbending Will, upon looking at the class now, it should be ok to make it 2 uses.
- Dual Wielder(and a few other features) were moved around and Dual Wielder was renamed to Two Weapon Fighting(the old name for the current Dual Wielding feature).
- On Imago Deus, automatic critical hits are extremely broken as they can double all your bonus damage dies. Say you multiclass into a rouge, and deal 6d6 damage from sneak attack, 1d4 from your dagger and your legendary dagger deals 4d6 additional damage. With just a single auto crit you managed to deal an additional 10d6 + 1d4 damage.
- "When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack’s damage against the target. Roll all of the attack’s damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal. To speed up play, you can roll all the damage dice at once.
- For example, if you score a critical hit with a dagger, roll 2d4 for the damage, rather than 1d4, and then add your relevant ability modifier. If the attack involves other damage dice, such as from the rogue’s Sneak Attack feature, you roll those dice twice as well."
- On fall from grace, I limited its effect to once and changed it to Dexterity.
- Classes are supposed to have features that don't just related to combat, they are supposed to have exploration/social features. Characters are expected to be challenged in all of these aspects, not just combat.
- I realize now you didn't intend to come off that way, but you did attempt to outright delete the class after several hours were put into reviewing and editing the class to make it better. A few more changes were made to the class to hopefully make it a bit better, how does it look now?--Blobby383b (talk) 13:13, 29 December 2017 (MST)
- Lock Down seems good. Now I'm wondering if Divine Aura is even appropriate seeing as it is an extension of Aura in the regular features for the subclass. Angelic Wings (nerfed of course) should take its place so the Divine Rune can be the final feature again, I think, seeing as it gives it a bigger oomph as a final feature. And this was kind of minor but I think you also mentioned a lack of flavor?--Yanied (talk) 16:04, 29 December 2017 (MST)
- The two auras are different features that do separate things, one is passive(Divine aura) and the other one you can activate as an action(Aura of The Gods), one is not an improvement for the other. Also, what feature is called Divine Rune? Are you talking about Godly Incantation, which was more powerful than any 9th level spell?--Blobby383b (talk) 07:39, 30 December 2017 (MST)
- Alright, I added a modified version of Godly Incantation called Divine Runes was added to the subclass. Besides that, I am liking how the class is looking now. While the class isn't solely focused on combat, the class is still very much geared towards it. Also, earlier I mentioned the class lacking flavor because it seemed the only thing you could do with the class was kill things. I wished to fix that in revising the class as a class that can only kill thing doesn't make for a very interesting class. Plus, the class now seems to slowly gain a god's powers in one way.--Blobby383b (talk) 08:43, 30 December 2017 (MST)