Talk:Dragon Ogre (5e Race)

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This is hugely overpowered, and doesn't make sense in some places, e.g. what does "You are considered to be mounted without the ability to dismount" mean with respect to the 5e rules for mounts? What are "electric based attacks", presumably this means lightning damage? Marasmusine (talk) 10:24, 12 October 2016 (MDT)

Okay, converting to a composite character. The main issue of large size is addressed by placing it at 5th level. Instead of Extra Attack, they use large weapon. What do you think, will there be enough here to fill out a class? Marasmusine (talk) 07:54, 30 July 2017 (MDT)

I think there will be enough enough features eventually to fill it out. I have thought of a few possibilities:
  • A tail sweep that knocks a certain sized creature or smaller prone on a failed Dexterity saving throw
  • A feature that maybe allows them to cast thunderwave unlimited times and/or allows them to cast lightning bolt a certain number of times equal to whatever ability score is decided for their spellcasting
  • A feature that allows them to swipe at creature with their tail/claw/horns for say 3d6 damage as a bonus action when they dash
  • A feature that gives them proficiency or advantage in History as they live forever
  • A feature that allows you to discharge a spark with your reaction on a melee attack against you for 2d10 lightning damage with a Constitution? saving throw for half damage
  • A feral feature where you use a bonus action to rely on primal instincts until the start of your next turn giving you advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws, but disadvantage on all other saving throws
  • A feature akin to 5e favored enemy for dragons and ogres.

I may think of more possibilities later, but that is all my ideas for now--Blobby383b (talk) 18:30, 30 July 2017 (MDT)
They all seem reasonable. I'm trying to find as much information about the race from old White Dwarfs and Warhammer books. Might be funny to introduce a zoat option. If it doesn't look like there's enough stuff, I can condense it to a 10 level class - I don't think it will be too bad letting them take regular classes too. Marasmusine (talk) 02:25, 31 July 2017 (MDT)
I will start adding features to the class, and then we will see what we want to do with the race/class from there. Also, is there a reason why the race has ability score improvements at levels 6 and 14?--Blobby383b (talk) 03:05, 31 July 2017 (MDT)
It matches the fighter's bonus ASIs. Firstly, as the character becomes Large, I want the player to have the opportunity to raise their Str or Con faster (it's not automatic like it was in 3rd edition). Secondly, dragon ogres are fighter-ish anyway. Thirdly, I didn't think there would be enough unique features to fill out all the levels. Marasmusine (talk) 09:49, 31 July 2017 (MDT)
I can re-add the ability score increase and move a few features levels around. Also, are we planning to make the Dragon Ogre a 10 level class or a 20 level class, as that will decide where I put the ability score increases. Nevermind, I have added a few other features and the ability score increase back, and we should be doing 20 level.--Blobby383b (talk) 15:43, 1 August 2017 (MDT)
I believe I am done with the class/race mix how does it look?--Blobby383b (talk) 20:41, 1 August 2017 (MDT)
Thank-you for your input, it will do for now. I still need to scour back issues of White Dwarf for lore or variants. Part of me wants to let the Shaggoth have Huge size at 20th level. It would mean they deal 4d12 damage with a huge-sized greataxe, which might be okay since they don't have extra attacks. It's the space they occupy that might be an issue, but screw it, it's 20th level right?
One thing I left out is the idea that they need to consume lightning or become exhausted, I thought that would be best left to roleplaying. It's essentially their diet, which isn't normally given mechanics (beyond the normal starvation rules). Marasmusine (talk) 01:06, 2 August 2017 (MDT)
Couldn't you just say that all melee attack damage dice rolled by the Shaggoth are doubled if you are worried about space being a problem? I will add that at 20th level unless you have any concerns with it.--Blobby383b (talk) 02:22, 2 August 2017 (MDT)
It's not the same :) All or nothing, I say. if Huge size is in a class option, then at least it's not mandatory and puts the space concerns in the players / DMs option. Marasmusine (talk) 04:59, 2 August 2017 (MDT)
I am split over the issue, while it is extremely cool and unique for a race/class, it is a huge literally hassle for the Dragon Ogre to fit anywhere, but then again it is at 20th level and probably will not be a problem with spells and magic items you have available... I say we can change it to Huge size, and we will always have what I suggested earlier as a backup option. I also think it pretty cool that a race could get to be Huge size and still be balanced though. Any last thoughts on the race/class?--Blobby383b (talk) 09:29, 2 August 2017 (MDT)
Well you two did an amazing job fixing up the mess of a race I wrote a while back. Just thought I'd say well done on that. Sorry if my formatting/approach to creating it (And this post. Never made use of the talk pages before, so we'll see if this appears correctly) caused you trouble. -- Veradalycan 08:12, 11 December 2017 (MST)
It is all good, the race was cool and unique enough that is was approached very differently than most other races. Plus this is a wiki so input from all users is welcome.--Blobby383b (talk) 11:25, 11 December 2017 (MST)
Just a thought here, doesn't the 3rd level immunity to lightning make the 1st level feature of Tempest Dragon Ogre useless because of the wording? Let alone that you start with resistance to it anyway. [[SansGenocide (talk) 00:06, 6 February 2018 (MST)]]

←Reverted indentation to one colon

Yes the 3rd level feature provides immunity to lightning damage because races largely shouldn't have immunity to a damage types or conditions. See the race design guide's section of traits.--Blobby383b (talk) 13:06, 6 February 2018 (MST)

Maybe I was misunderstood, I'll elaborate. The wording on the 1st level feature of Tempest Dragon states that when you receive lightning damage, meaning the damage hits you, you gain temporary hit points equal to the amount taken. This ability is cool and all, but the race already has resistance to lightning, meaning half of the damage is prevented and the other half hits you, giving you the temp health. The "absorb lightning" feature, as I will refer to it, becomes completely nullified at 3rd level of the race/class when you gain immunity to lightning; because you no longer receive any lightning damage, meaning no more temp health. If I am misreading the ability then that's fine, I just want you to know that was how I interpreted it and others might too. [[SansGenocide (talk) 08:26, 9 February 2018 (MST)]]
It seems I did misunderstand you, the race/class's 3 lightning resistance feature's do behave oddly, I will see what I can do to fix it.--Blobby383b (talk) 08:44, 9 February 2018 (MST)
Perhaps being struck by lightning attacks powers up the Dragon Ogre Tempest's next melee attack, whether damage is dealt by the lightning or not? [[SansGenocide (talk) 12:06, 9 February 2018 (MST)]]

So Confused....[edit]

I'm so confused. Is this a class or race or a mixture? I think it would be better to seperate the Class Features from the supposed race. Either way, I love the idea of the race and I think (this is my opinion, I mean no disrespect) that making a class out of it is kinda... odd. Only because you can't really make your class a monster. You could have certain abilities that enhance a certain class in your race. Thank you! Flamestarter (talk) 13:02, 17 September 2019 (MDT)Flamestarter

Your right, looking back at this, there is no reason for this to be a race/class combo especially since the class features aren't all that interesting and the race has humanoid arms(so there is no need to create a special class for them being unable to cast magic/wield weapons). When I get the time, I will try and change the race/class combo back into just a race and convert the class features into some sort of lightning based subclass.--Blobby383b (talk) 23:10, 17 September 2019 (MDT)
Because of the fact that this didn't make sense as a race/class combo, I changed the page was changed back into a race and slightly tweaked the traits so the race isn't too strong compared to 1st party races. I did manage to convert some of the ideas as well as a few new ideas I had into the The Blue Dragon (5e Subclass) and I can say I am happy with the result. For posterity stakes, here a link of the old version of the if anyone was playing it or wants to play it.--Blobby383b (talk) 13:19, 19 September 2019 (MDT)
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