Talk:Soulknife (5e Class)
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Hey guys this is my first class i was wondering what you guys thought if it, it probably needs some work still so I would appreciate some feedback.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 17:16, 19 October 2015 (MDT)
For your first class designed, I'd say it's pretty good. I always liked the Soulknife class, but never got to play as much as I liked (party always needs a cleric, etc). Anyways, I do have some criticisms that you might look over:
Soul Sight: Is this intended to act as a blindsense of sorts? see invisibility / see in darkness? The rules portion of the ability seems to be missing.
Archetypes: I'm not entirely sure what inspired your choice of archetypes. Normally, archetypes fall along the natural divisions of which role or which style a character of this class would choose. The bard, for example, has one archetype focused on his magic and one archetype for his swordplay. The archetypes you have listed don't seem like a natural extention. I would have chosen archetypes such as the following for a soulknife:
- Name: Kalastar monk/paladin type -focuses on Psychic Strike.
- Name: focuses on shaping weapon into various forms, even giving spell like effects to some forms.
- Name: focuses more on the martial tactical aspect. similar to Fighter's battlemaster archetype.
- Name: focuses on enchanting his mind blade. 8 hour meditation to add permanent 1d6 fire damage and such.
Saves: Since Soulknife is a primarily martial class, why did you choose Int and Cha? just wondering. Speed of Thought: Great ability. I love it. phrasing toward the end could use a little work for clarification though. It looks like he can gain advantage against an enemy attack roll or a spell directed against him right? and that's an additional item he can use his reaction for? May also be able to split that one up into 2 abilities, since all other MS bonuses seem to come before level 10. --Entropicscholar (talk) 07:54, 28 October 2015 (MDT)
- hey thanks for the reply, I'll answer the questions as i can starting from top to bottom.
Soul Sight. i believe back in 3.5ed undead creatures had a form of sense called life sense. soul sight is meant to work like that except you can sense the souls of living creature/constructs should they have one. i will try word it better to make it make more sense.
Archtypesthis was the hardest part for me. i had no idea were to put archtypes in for this. so i tried to make one focus of close range support/damage while the other one focused on range and control. sorta still trying to go through and figure a way to improve them atm. Soul Shaper i decided would have way of using their souls in different ways etc, while the Seeker which was based off a 4th ed class was a more primal spirit user who bonded their soul with nature. I will definitely make some changes based on what you have giving me.
Saves While i felt like it should definitely have saves in probably Con and Wis I believed that really Int and Cha are the closest stats that would say define a persons soul, what they know and who they are essentially. i am thinking of perhaps changing it to Con and Int instead but i am not sure atm.
Speed of Thought Yes i loved the idead of this ability as well, took me a very long time to figure out how to balance it. so basically how it works is say you just had your turn and now its time for a another creatures turn and he decideds to attack you with whatever, you can use 1 of your 2 reactions to take the dodge action using you fast thinking against the attack giving you the upper hand against it. as for AOE spells say cone of cold for instance, the attack is not aiming at you, it is aiming in the area your in so i might make it so that you can't use it against AOE attacks, because it could end up being a pain for the DM. i will look into maybe moking it so you gain the 10ft of movement at 10th level and at 14th level the 2 reactions. i will definitely look into it.
i will do some changes now, maybe you can help with with the second archtype, i really mind blocked for it lol.
I have gone through the class again and tried fixing up a few things and made abilities work a little smoother I will try play test this at some point to work out the mechanics, if anyone has any advice towards the class or some changes that may help let me know. Thanks --Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 02:34, 17 February 2016 (MST)
Hi there, I am using your class as a player since close to 1 year now, I am following the development but I have to say that the last changes did "nerf" the class a bit if you compare to a combat class like fighter, monk or ranger. I liked the fighting style that was at level 2, it gave the soulknife what was missing to be a combat class, I suggest to put it back. For the archetype, I would let the 9th level ability instead of lvl 10 and switching with the enhance thrown. Moving the enhanced blade (+1) to lvl 6 is not a bad idea since lvl 5 gives the extra attack. I would suggest to put another extra attack at lvl 13 or 15. In the table, at lvl 11, you should remove the soul sight (10ft). You did a good job on the class, it is fun to play but a players must keep in mind that this is not a full combat class, I find it inferior in combat to a warrior or a monk but it gives you some different options especially for roleplay. --Atta Talas'kiir (talk) 14:32, 24 September 2016 (MDT)
What are the backgrounds that you recommend for this class? --184.108.40.206 13:00, 23 April 2016 (MDT)
- Hmm sorry for the late reply, recomended backgrounds would be far traveler, Hermit or Sage.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 09:27, 30 July 2016 (MDT)
Feedback Howdy There is a guy in my group using this for his class and it creates some unique problems i think. Soul Sight as a constant thing seems to break ambushes since they can always see souls even threw walls. I would say take being able to see threw solid objects out or treat it like the Paladin divine sense so that it has a limited number of uses. I think the a 7th level soul shaper might be a bit over powered between the damage bonus and extra attacks and since their is no limit on how often you can use the power of soul feature. You get two attacks and could be wielding a two handed weapon say great sword 2d6 plus psychic 1d8 plus the flames 1d10 twice a turn. For upwards of 4d6 +2d8+2d10 a turn and the ability to dish this out with out restriction all combat make them over powered for a 1d10 hp fighter class. I feel like they need spell slots like a paldin would have or maybe a point pull like the monks ki to be able to activate all the power of soul extra effects.
Good to get some feed back after all this time. After learning how to use this website a bit better i will be going through this class very soon to balance it better i will take into account the issues you have bought up and give you a better more balanced result.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 06:46, 16 February 2017 (MST)
Big changes and fixed issues
Hey guys, the issues that were brought up recently have been fixed, some of these were due to my lack of experience and others were due to people adding additional effects and damage to things that certainly didn't need it. I hope this is a more balanced and interesting class now. Thanks again for feed back --Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 21:53, 16 February 2017 (MST)
- So, I just delved in at random and found this: "You now critical hit on a 19-20 and damage dice you roll can be re-rolled on any result of 1 on the dice when you roll a critical hit once only per dice. "
- Firstly, the wording is awkward to the point that I don't know what I'm rerolling, when, or how often.
- Secondly, it doesn't say what kinds of attacks this works with. For example, the fighter's improved critical specifically says "weapon attacks". Is Shatter Strike supposed to work with every kind of attack (all weapon and spell attacks)? Marasmusine (talk) 03:00, 17 February 2017 (MST)
- More poor wording, "You gain intelligence modifier on perception and insight skill checks."
- The features keep switching between third-person and second-person. It should all be in second person.
- 5e doesn't use the term "enhancement bonus" for weapons. You need to write out in full that it's a bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls.
- Lots like this.
- I'm adding a "wording" template until it is improved. Marasmusine (talk) 03:05, 17 February 2017 (MST)
- hey marasusine, long time no speak. i went through and fixed the issue with the third person and second person, enhancement bonus and general wording through out the class. this was the first class i wrote up so i forgot to edit it after so long it got neglected lol thanks for the feed back, also i was wondering if you got to look back at the vampire variant class i fixed the issues your brought up but i did not get a reply as to the improvements, when you get time could you take a look through and let me know what will need fixing (also people have been editing it really wierdly so there might be alot of oddball stuff in there, like the other day i found out they turned a 1/3 caster into some sort of caster able to cast 8th level spells >.>) cheers for the feed back.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 12:41, 17 February 2017 (MST)
- Also the multiclass prerequisites follow the rules from phb, so not sure why it seems like a odd number, to get into bard for instance you need Charisma 13, Monk you need Wisdom and Dexterity of 13. Let me know whats on your mind
- Its alright, i understand your a busy person everyone always asking for advise or help. i did not notice you changed it from 14 to 13 lol my bad. --Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 07:10, 18 February 2017 (MST)
Opinions on the Soulknife
After playing this class for about half a year now, the recent nerfs changes the playstyle by alot. That along with the lack of damage this class already does. There's also a lot clarification text necessary for certain parts too.
- I'll start with their actual damage. Until 3rd level, a Soulknife's literal only special quality is the Mind Blade and Soul Sight. There is a incredibly lack of damage with the Mind Blade at these levels making it no different than attacking with a normal weapon and using the Soulknife's Intelligence modifier instead of strength or dexterity. And since Dexterity is the Soulknife's second highest ability score, there's almost no incentive to use a Mind Blade and simply just use Finesse weapons other than the very rare occasions where the Soulknife got disarmed or have no weapons.
- This becomes much more apparent when the Soulknife has a Dexterity modifier equal to their Intelligence modifier.
- Also, being able to throw a Mind Blade is not a very huge boon at second level either. Considering that a Improvised Thrown Weapon's range is 20/60 for 1d4 damage, and throwing a Mind Blade is 30/60 for 1d6 damage. And again, at this point, it might just be better to throw daggers or darts at this point, since making another Mind Blade costs a Bonus Action, when the Soulknife could've outputted more damage by throwing two daggers in that turn already.
- Alternatively, the Soulknife would could rather opt a Shortbow which has longer range and does the same damage as a thrown Mind Blade but using Strength as the modifier instead of Intelligence.
- The next thing is about Soul Sight. There are many things wrong with Soul Sight.
- Someone added that it only has an amount of uses equal to the Soulknife's Intelligence Modifier + 1 which they recover after a short or long rest, but they neglected to add a duration for how long Soul Sight stays active, if it stays on until it's turned off, and what kind of action it is to turn on.
- Furthermore, it's vague. Is it implying the Soulknife can only see the souls up to 30ft or is the detection part is 30ft and things within line of sight have their soul colored?
- Also, by large objects as thick as 1ft, is it implying that large creatures or their corpses can block Soul Sight for creatures behind it? Does this include the detection part?
- Furthermore, clarification is necessary to know how it works if the Soulknife is in darkness for players without darkvision. Does it let the Soulknife know the location of enemies in darkness? Or what about Magical Darkness? Or behind/in Heavily Obscured things like Fog Cloud?
- Additional clarification for what the soul looks would look like is necessary. Assuming that they see the soul, but not the person, can a Soulknife differentiate an ally from an enemy who are the same type, such as an ally human's soul from the enemy human's soul?
- Also the glowing eyes need to be clarified. Is it always on even when Soul Sight is not on? Because if so, it implies enemies without darkvision would able to see the glowing eyes of the Soulknife in darkness and therefore able to determine their location for free. This is a huge debuff especially when having the Soulknife sneak around in darkness.
- Also, there's a bit in the Soulknife table about Soul Sight 10ft at 11th level which isn't properly explained.
- There is a very high possibility that Soul Sight needs to be buffed, since if it only lasts for one turn like the Paladin's Divine Sense, then a Soul Shaper Soulknife will most likely get hurt by their own Soul Barrier.
- For Enhanced Mind Blade, when fusing a magic weapon that weapon into their soul, what happens to the original weapon? Does it disappear into the Soulknife's soul and can summon that back at will?
- Furthermore, there's no clarification text about what would happen if they tried to fuse with another magical weapon. Is fusing with a magical weapon a once per life thing? If not and assuming yes to above, what'd happen to the previous fused weapon?
- Furthermore, fusing a two-handed weapon this way causes problems with the modified 'Soul Armor', disabling having fused 2-handed weapon and the 'Soul Armor' at the same time. Furthermore, if the fusing is permanent and can't change, then the Soulknife is screwed by their life choices.
- Additionally, there's no way to unfuse to make Mind Blades work like normal and Mind Blades are stuck in the shape of the magical weapon forever.
- Psychic strike should probably be something innately part of a Mind Blade but changed so that it scales with Soulknife level, so that there is more incentive to using the Mind Blade over other weapons. Because it takes til 8th level before a Mind Blade starts being different from a normal/magical weapon.
- Additionally, as it's worded right now, it doesn't even have to be a weapon attack with the Mind Blade to deal that extra damage. Thus making a Mind Blade even more obsolete than it already is because any ordinary weapon attack such as a Shortbow can deal the bonus damage. Thereby making the throw Mind Blade feature even more useless.
- "Mind Blade", 'Shape Soul' and 'Soul Armor' are now in direct confrontation of each other.
- Because the Soul Armor counts as one of the summoned weapons now, Shape Soul cannot be a 2-handed weapon while Soul Armor is active. Essentially making the Shape Soul at 6th Level kinda pointless and making the Soulknife have to choose between a 2-handed weapon or have the armor and a 1-handed weapon.
- Similarly, because the Soul Armor counts as a summoned weapon, the Soulknife can't wield two Mind Blades anymore and have the armor, and instead must choose between two 1-handed weapons or have the armor and one 1-handed weapon. However, since the Soulknife does not have two-weapon-fighting, there is actually almost no reason to create a second one-handed Mind Blade in the first place since Intelligence will not be added to the damage roll for the off-hand attack. Thus it's simply more efficient to have the Soul Armor, a one-handed Mind Blade, and then a Finesse Light weapon. Thus if this change was to force a Soulknife to choose, its not really a choice. Up until 6th level where they get Enhanced Mind Blade, the Enhanced Mind Blade is essentially the same as having a off-hand be a +1 Light Finesse Weapon assuming they find one. Thus it really only matters at 8th level where Mind Blades get Psychic Strike to get bonus damage.
- Thus, since the Soul Shaper is designed to be a melee to mid-ranged attacker, having to choose between survivability or damage is very restrictive.
- Power Of The Soul also needs to be clarified as when the Soulknife chooses to use one of the effects: before the attack roll, or after the attack roll. If before the attack roll, does it waste a usage of Power of the Soul if it misses? The text also implies that it works with any attack, not just attacks with the Mind Blade. Some additional clarification text is also necessary for some of the effects:
- For Warp Strike, what would happen if the attack misses?
- For Spirit Command, Flames of Hatred, Calm Waters, Freedom of Will and etc., does the Soulknife still get these effect when their attack misses the intended target of the attack?
- Consider increasing the range of Thrown Mind Blade for the Seeker Soulknife. I assume this archtype was meant to be the long range variant of the Soulknife, but with the range of a Thrown Mind Blade being so short, its within almost melee range of any enemy. Considering it doesn't have Soul Armor and it relies solely on Light armor, this causes the Seeker Soulknife to be a incredibly higher liability for the rest of the party.
- Additionally, almost every Druid Cantrip's has the effective range of a thrown Mind Blade as their range or more. Counting Homebrew cantrips on this wiki which has 4x the range of a thrown Mind Blade, the eventual damage of a thrown Seeker's Mind Blade becomes obsolete.
- Especially starting at 5th level, 'Produce Flame' deal 2d8 with 30ft range or 'Frostbite' dealing 2d6 with 60ft range while a thrown Mind Blade is still 30/60 with 1d6.
- The damage gap becomes incredibly more apparent at 11th damage when 'Produce Flames' deals 3d8 damage with 30ft range, 'Frostbite' dealing 3d6 with 60ft range, and the Thrown Mind Blade only just improved to 1d8 and an additional 1d8 from Primal Awareness and Psychic strike.
- Also, why is Spiritual Assault's bonus damage dependent on Strength? It'd make more sense for it to be Intelligence since that's what the Seeker Soulknife seems to use.
So from my experience while playtesting this class, all I can say is that this class is very weak and damage output is so low. A necessity to buff this class's damage output is necessary along with clarification text for the parts I mentioned. Especially when compared to the Barbarian, Rogue, Fighter and Ranger, the damage from Soulknife is really low. --Alearori (talk) 15:32, 29 October 2017 (MDT)
- Other than fixing the grammar errors, making formatting a bit nicer, here's a list of the changes:
- I cut out the Save DC cause references it, and things that have the exact same number doesn't reference it. So its easier to just cut it.
- For Mind Blade, I reordered cause it says what you get at 4th level, and then 3rd level. Which is confusing so I switched the order so that it says what you get at 3rd level first and then 4th level.
- Soul Sight needed a huge overhaul.
- Soul Sight is necessary to be always on, it doesn't provide much benefit only than allowing the player to vaguely determine what kind of creature it is.
- The part about sensing creatures is a huge boon. And should actually be moved to become another feature called something like Soul Sense. Thus I made it work like the Paladin's Divine Sense for now. Also 30 feet is not alot, and thus I want to also buff it to 60 feet to match the Paladin's Divine Sense.
- Enhanced Mind Blade needed that text about how to get a new soul weapon. Otherwise, they're stuck with a uncommon soul weapon forever if they fused one early.
- Speed of Thought I wrote out Evasion and Uncanny Dodge so people don't have to wonder what it is.
- Psychic Assault, it's necessary to add that part where they do not count towards the number of summoned weapons, otherwise it caps at 2 and you cannot use it if you have a two-handed weapon out already.
- Shape Soul needed to be reprhased
- Soul Armor didn't feel at all like a new feature at 4th level, it just added a new choice for what a Mind Blade could be, and the soulknife remained very squishy if they chose to not use the Soul Armor.
- Power of the Soul needed to be after it hits to choose the effect. This is because if you miss, you wasted one of the charges of Power of Soul and it becomes incredibly depressing since you only have an Intelligence Modifier amount of them, and was literally the only way to slightly boost the damage output.
- Primal Strike needed that clarification text otherwise it's saying you have to hit your allies with a ranged attack to give them advantage on something that it doesn't specify.
- And the Strength to Intelligence change for Spiritual Assault is because the Soulknife doesn't use Strength, so simply having that was weird.
- And that's it regarding the changes I've made. --Alearori (talk) 13:06, 31 October 2017 (MDT)
- Other than fixing the grammar errors, making formatting a bit nicer, here's a list of the changes:
- Okay regarding that recent change, which seems like a incredible nerf. I reverted it because:
- Since the class require an action to conjure a Mind Blade in the first place, it takes 2 turns to attack with it to do 1d6 damage. This is slower than other classes such as spellcasting classes that can instantly shoot a cantrip to do 1d10 damage. This is a bigger nerf at higher levels, when a cantrip can shoot to do about 4d10 damage each turn. Meanwhile a Mind Blade will cap out at 2d6+2d8 damage for a Soul Shaper, and 1d10+2d8 damage for a Seeker every 2 turns. The damage differential between a Soulknife and another class grows increasingly bigger.
- It disables the ability to conjure a Mind Blade and throw it in the same turn. Thereby making Throw Mind Blade even more useless as a class feature. Because after you conjure a mind blade, you'll never want to throw it unless you're a Seeker, because it'll waste your action just to conjure one again.
- This is even less incentive to use Mind Blades at higher levels because of the time it takes to setup. Considering that everyone is allowed one free item interaction per turn according to page 190 of the PHB, non-spellcasting classes can take out a weapon and attack in the same turn. Meanwhile a Soulknife needs to waste their action just to take out a Mind Blade and then wait a whole round before being able to attack with the Mind Blade. It's gimps their damage output by a whole turn at early levels, that a Soulknife can do more damage by unsheathing a magical weapon to do equal, if not more damage.
- At early levels, this is a incredible gimp in damage. At 1st level, this Mind Blade is the only feature to do damage, and it's absolutely no different than using a Shortsword to attack. If the Dexterity and Intelligence modifier are the same, a Soulknife using a Shortsword will do more potential damage a Soulknife using a Mind Blade simply because the Soulknife with the Shortsword can take it out and attack with it in the same turn.
- Losing this action will essentially put the Soulknife under a Suprise Round at the start of combat at early levels. Where other players would have already done done damage, a Soulknife would need to take a turn to take out a Mind Blade and then wait one whole round, before finally attacking. The disparity become higher if there actually was a Surprise Round, taking the Soulknife at least 3 turns before it does its first damage with the Mind Blade.
- And that is why I'm reverting this edit, because I think that Soulknife at least needs this buff, especially at the games where the Soulknife starts at low levels, otherwise the Mind Blade is a expensive unsheathe. --Alearori (talk) 19:42, 2 November 2017 (MDT)
- Okay regarding that recent change, which seems like a incredible nerf. I reverted it because:
Now, as for the other possible changes:
1. Mind Blade needs to scale in damage. It is incredibly useless at higher levels, and it's literally no difference than using a shortsword at early levels. And once you get high enough, there is literally no more point in summoning a Mind Blade when the soul weapon exists other than having it be a off-hand or making a shield. There are two solutions I can think of to this problem.
- Keep the Mind Blade having the Shortsword's properties, but have the damage scale with level like the Monk's Martial Arts. However, since the Mind Blade requires a Bonus Action to spawn one at the start of combat, it's damage can be somewhat higher. However, doing so would cause direct confrontation with Primal Awareness and Shape Soul. Since Primal Awareness increases damage while Shape Soul changes the properties and damage types. But this can be remedied by modifying those too.
- Make Psychic Strike available at 1st level like the Rogue's Sneak Attack and scale with level. Thus providing extra damage but changing the conditions to something like, the damage bonus is only for Mind Blades. I think this is the best solution thus far.
2. Throw Mind Blade should actually be something at 1st level. There are very few scenarios where I've ever had to throw one, because at that point I'd rather use the shortbow granted as starting equipment which does the exact same damage, but the Shortbow being longer range. Another reason why increasing the Mind Blade's damage is necessary.
- Also, about that level 9 part, it should be cut out entirely. Because that is a major restriction on Mind Blade's usage at early levels especially with Inevitable Shot and Power of Soul. The Soulknife is forced to use non-Mind Blade attacks for Inevitable Shot and Power of Soul til 9th level, thereby making the Throw Mind Blade Feature incredibly useless in and of itself til 9th level since you can't even throw the Mind Blade to get those additional effects. Thus Throw Mind Blade should instead scale in effective range at higher levels instead and have the level 9 bonus innately part of the this feature.
3. Enhanced Mind Blade needs to do more, otherwise it's no different than getting +1 Shortswords or whatever weapon the Mind Blade is at the time. This even more so for the Seeker, since Druid Cantrips do more damage than Mind Blades at level 6.
4. Psychic Strike is essentially the Cleric's Divine Strike. The Cleric has an incredibly more amount of utility, which would be why this trait doing that much damage being that low would be okay. But the Soulknife, does next to nothing in terms of utility and the damage is poor. However, a Cleric can eventually get Sacred Flame, which does 3d8 and then 4d8 damage eventually. Meanwhile a Soul Knife with this feature will cap out at 1d6+2d8. The Soulknife seems to be designed to do damage like the Fighter, Thief, Barbarian, or Ranger, but the damage is less than a Cleric at higher levels.
5. Shatter Strike needs to be earlier. After moving Psychic Strike to 1st level, should move Shatter Strike to 8th level, and then a improved version of Shatter Strike at like 18th level for critical hits at 18-20.
6. Soul Armor should be a 3rd level feature too, considering Seeker gets two features at third level. Meanwhile Soul Shackle should be moved from 6th to 7th level. Then Primal Awareness can move down to 10th level 7th level so that the levels and number of features for the archtypes are the same. This thing is a jumbled mess.
7. Soul barrier's damage needs to increase because it's a 10th level trait that refreshes after a long rest. Literally almost every 1st level spells does more damage than Soul Barrier. This doesn't just apply to just Soul Barrier because Soul Sever does 3d10 and its a 13th level feature. Fire Bolt and most other cantrips do the same does this much damage at this level and more at higher levels, and they're cantrips!
8. Primal Smite needs more charges. For a 10th level feature, it's basically a one turn Faerie Fire that reduces their speed instead of everything else that Faerie Fire does. And Seeker can use Faerie Fire 4 times per long rest at this level already. This feature is merely a weaker Faerie Fire when you don't have a Faerie Fire. And it's incredibly frustrating when you miss Primal Smite too since you literally only have one shot of Primal Smite and if the attack misses, you get nothing, and lose the one usage of Primal Smite without it doing anything.
9. A lot of the Soulknife's features can be combined together, simply because of how similar they are in description and abilities such as Primal Spirit and Primal Awareness. Or Shape Soul and Soul Armor. This would allow more useful features to be added for the class in general, because some of the features are so weak, a level up provides nothing as nothing really new to their gameplay.
10. There is a incredibly need for more charges on some features such as Soul Sever, Soul Barrier and especially Primal Smite. Due to their lack of damage, they appear to only have one use before long resting due to the status effect they inflict. But the status effects are extremely short or lackluster that it's just really bland and not all that worthwhile to use.
- And so, since I started to modify this class, here's the list of changes and why:
- Combined Mind Blade and Thrown Mind Blade because you can already throw it as a improvised thrown weapon at 1st level already. Essentially the Mind Blade becomes a 1d6 Dagger that uses Intelligence as the modifier.
- The Mind Blade sheds light, not as strong as a torch or light via cantrips, but it adds more flavor uses to Soul Sight. Considering to remove the light, since it might be a free torch.
- Psychic Strike moved to 2nd level, and now scales. Thus the attacks are now slightly weaker than cantrips.
- Psychic Barrier now leads into Mind Over Body. Also because psychic is not a common damage type, making Psychic Barrier almost useless.
- Shatter Strike moved to 8th level because the Champion Fighter gets improved critical at 3rd level, and superior critical at 15th level. So it seems appropriate.
- Adding Knife to the Soul from the 3.5e Soulknife in the link below. Because it uses the SRD:Ability_Damage that's not in 5e, I tweaked it a bit.
- Modified when the archtype bonuses are gained, to match the table.
- That's it for now, I'll make more later.
From the class as it's built now, it seems as if 9th level has no applicable features on it as Enhanced Thrown Mind Blade is no longer a thing. Is that a design oversight, or intended? --Lethalitycomplex (talk) 08:29, 7 December 2017 (MST)
- Yes, that feature was missing as I was still in the process of reorganizing the class. I didn't implement a majority of the changes yet, due to me still sorting through the history of all the changes so this class is still a bit disorganized. For now as a temporary fix, I moved Psychic Assault to be the 9th level feature because it is essentially Bladewind in the linked 3.5e class, and it was also gained at 9th level. The rest of the changes I will be making will be done at a later date. -- Alearori (talk) 22:46, 7 December 2017 (MST)
Edit Reversion Reasons
So going down one by one:
- For Enhanced Mind Blade, it must be at 6th level, because it was scaling every 6 levels, so it was actually supposed to be 6-12-18. However, ASI is at 12th level, and moving Enhanced Mind Blade +2 there would make the 11th level empty. Then 18th level already has 2 features, so I moved the Enhanced Mind Blade +3 down to 17th. Now it scales at a 6-5-5 interval, which is much more elegant which results to gaining the features at level 6-11-17. Moving to 7-11-18 is not elegant, as it would cause the features to be gained at 7-4-5, which is a weird interval. Furthermore, moving Enhanced Mind Blade to 7th level would cause the class to gain 4 features at 7th level, and only 1 at 6th level, which that 6th level feature is just an upgrade to a previously gained feature. Thus, Enhanced Mind Blade must be gained at 6th level.
- For Soul Sever, the damage is prior to the change is equivalent to a 3rd level DoT spell such as Call Lightning or Spirit Guardians, but more comparable to Phantasmal Killer which is 4th level. At 13th level, a fullcaster could use a spell that does similar damage 3 times. Reducing the damage as such would make equivalent it a 2nd level spell which a 13th level fullcaster would've been able to use 4 times. Since this feature is restricted half your intelligence modifier, it will be used at most 3 times unless something happened that increases their intelligence above 20. Which makes the damage dice appropriate and is the reasoning for the 3d10 damage dice. However, the nerf to only long rest is appropriate.
- For Shape Soul, the class gained the ability to summon 2 blades in Mind Blade at 3rd level, so this is redundant.
- For Soul Shackle, the damage was equivalent to an AoE 3rd level spell, which at 7th level, a fullcaster would've been able to use a damage with similar damage 3 times before long resting. Nerfing Soul Shackle to that low damage would reduce it to do damage similar to a 1st level spell. Which is why the damage is a 8d6.
- Spirit Command is meant to be able to control the creature, and having them only be able to move closer to you is useless when Soul Shackle and other spells do it already. So I added it back and added a saving throw so its not automatic.
- Not sure why you deleted Baneful Strike, so I added it back, and corrected a wording issues.
- Not sure why you deleted Warp Strike either, but I deleted the last line which made it seem a bit OP.
- As for Primal Strike, you need to activate the feature, and then hit to actually give the effect. So if you consume a usage of the feature, and miss, you don't get the effect. So it is really depressing if you use a usage, and miss. Because then you used the feature for no reason. Thus the extra usages are a buffer to allow the class to be able to use it a bit more.
- So, going down the list again:
- Not sure why you deleted the level 20 feature from the table but kept it in the list
- Why did you even move Mind Barrier into Mind Blade? The two features have absolutely nothing in common.
- Not sure why you deleted the thickness restriction, as that restriction is the restriction for sense related features such as detect magic, detect evil and good and etc.
- The limit on Psychic Strike was okay, but this was designed to be half of Sneak Attack's damage, but also scales at approximately the same rate as a cantrip. It was also split that way so the class gains damage at 2-7-12-17, so removing that removes features from the table, and thus makes holes in the table and makes it weirder. A more appropriate nerf would be to nerf the damage overall, so that it reaches the 2d8 at the end and is similar to the Cleric's Divine Strike.
- You moved Enhanced Mind Blade into 5th level, but that ruins the scaling, as it creates a hole in the 6th level.
- Not sure why you made Speed of Thought reduce by that little amount, when it is Rogue's Uncanny Dodge, and that's how much it reduces it by.
- Not sure why you removed that part in Psychic Assault, but that reduces the reason to embed 2+ blades.
- You removed Shatter Strike and replaced it with nothing which creates a missing feature for the 9th and 15th level.
- A one-time feature for a saving throw is very weak, especially when this feature was modeled as a 1st level spell, and weaker than most other 1st level spells that does a similar thing but better, like entangle for example. Which, at this level, any fullcaster can use 4 times or more.
- Phantom Knife is a copy of the exact feature the soulknife in the UA Mystic uses that is gained at the exact same level.
- Knife to the Soul is actually super useless, considering most creatures have a preset attack mod, so this feature is only useful if the players are fighting against a spellcaster, and will only work if they target the correct stat. And reducing that stat by a d4 will decrease the enemy's modifers of that stat by a max of -2, making it significantly useless. Also, instant killing should not be allowed. Like, this feature would easily let players kill a Tarrasque if that were to happen.
- For Mind Over Body, I copied over those parts from the UA Mystic, because the original version was very lackluster in comparison, with one line of difference in exchange.
- Soul Crush was originally reflavored Monk's Quivering Palm, but after alot of anon changes, it became what it was. But since Monk could user Quivering Palm at max 6x per day, we can make this int based instead of making it a flat 2.
- These are all the reasons for the edit reversions. --Alearori (talk) 17:09, 30 April 2018 (MDT)
Psychic Strike Damage
Having a look at the nerf on Psychic Strike's damage, it reduces damage output through mid-level play something shocking. Considering the Divine Strike of the cleric gets the 2d8 at 14th rather than 17th (and that the cleric also has the backup of full spellcasting capability and cantrips such as sacred flame), the nerf doesn't make a lot of sense to me, as this class is much more martially based than the cleric is, and as such relies a lot more on being able to hit the enemy to output sustained damage. As there's not too many ways, especially in the lower level brackets (looking between 7 and 12th specifically) to eke out additional damage in combat when it's needed, 1d6-2d6-3d6-4d6 seems fine to me. If a nerf really was required, maybe changing the other levels to be something more like 1d6-2d6-2d8-2d10? Or, to change it back to what it was and, like Sneak Attack, limit it to one attack per turn?--Lethalitycomplex (talk) 14:00, 5 May 2018 (MDT)
- I had originally thought it was fine too, but ReiCoringa nerfed it, so I was under the impression it was overpowered.
- But yeah, I see your point. So I buffed it back to what it was originally. --Alearori (talk) 20:10, 5 May 2018 (MDT)
So, after some further playtesting, using the Soul Shaper Archetype, this class puts out a lot of damage, and in the case of the Soul Shaper, with the added tankiness that comes with Unarmored Defense and being able to form a shield from nothing, and then the entire deal with Shatter Strike and the Soul Powers as well... it makes you as tanky as a barbarian, the damage can outscale that of a rogue or paladin very easily, and you gain the versatility similar to that of a Battle Master fighter or Bard. Thus, I made the following changes:
- Psychic Strike: At level 5, once you get Extra Attack, this goes straight to 2d6 weapon + 2d6 psychic + modifiers, at range for a Seeker, or for a Soul Shaper, 4d6 weapon + 2d6 psychic + modifiers (with a 2 handed weapon). At level 7, that goes to 2d8 weapon + 4d6 psychic + modifiers at range/4d6 weapon + 4d6 psychic + modifiers, and only goes up from there (this not even including changing to one handed weapons and using an offhand attack). As the closest abilities that it emulates is Sneak Attack (which has extra rules determining when you get the extra damage, the rogue only getting one attack per turn, so there's also the matter of the extra modifier, flat damage always being better than rolling dice), Divine Strike (which is once per turn only) and Improved Divine Smite (which is only 1d8), I changed it to trigger once per turn, to closer emulate Divine Strike. I also changed the progression to 2-7-12-18, as after clearing the table up, the 18th level was looking empty, and the 17th had too much.
- Enhanced Mind Blade: Changed to not include the soul weapon, as that would cause it to stack with magical weapons bonuses, which breaks bounded accuracy
- Psychic Assault: Changed to deal 1d6 damage per hit on top of the immobilization. It keeps the feature relevant whilst taking it further back to its roots in 3.5's Bladewind. It also means it keeps up with a normal attack action.
- Soul Sever: Removed the damage for extra failed saves. 6d10 damage against saves being made at disadvantage is far too powerful, and giving them advantage on the roll only changes it to a flat roll. For creatures with a low Wisdom save, that is basically instant death. Now, it's simply 3d10 and disadvantage on all rolls for 1 minute, can save at end of turns to end disadvantage.
- Soul Armor: Clarified that the shield does not get the Enhanced Mind Blade bonus. Using Standard Array, it's easy to get to 20 Int and Dex, and AC 24 with no spells/items is a very high AC to have.
- Power of the Soul: Changed this to once per turn for an attack addition given the number of uses it has, and the number of different possible effects. Also changed to be allowed on an Attack action only, as for it to not be allowed to be used in conjunction with other features (e.g Psychic Assault). Also changed some of them to a bonus action, as some of the effects make no sense being tacked onto an attack (Freedom of Will comes to mind, and, in a party, will probably be one of the few ways to end certain conditions i.e Stunned)
- Soul Barrier: Noted that its use costs an action.
- Soul Crush: Changed the wording to change a creature's alignment to Neutral (if it has one), and causes the creature to become non-hostile, the hostility sparking again if the creature is damaged or attacked by, or forced to make a saving throw against an effect created by an ally. It still destroys ethereal creatures and spirits.
I did a test run with it, we played 7 session so far and this seems to be pretty balanced.
Soulknife - NERF
Soulknife DC Your Soulknife DC is equal to 8 + your Intelligence Modifier + your Proficiency Bonus
Mind Blade As a bonus action, you can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from your mind. You can only have one of these blades at a time. The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a shortsword. The Mind Blade glows phosphorescently in the color of your soul, and sheds dim light in a 5 feet radius. You use your agillity modifier for attack and intelligence modifier for damage rolls made with this weapon. The blade lasts until you dispel it as a bonus action or it is forcefully removed from your grip/possession.
At 3rd you can have up to two blade and wield both if you so choose.
Starting at 6th level, your Mind Blade counts as magical for purposes of overcoming resistance and immunity.
Soul Sight Your eyes have become attuned with the spiritual world for 10 minutes. While in darkness or at night, your eyes now glow in the color of your soul. You can see the glow of others souls which appear as glowing outlines around their body. You can see the glow of their soul in any lighting except magical darkness. You cannot see this glow if they are obscured by thick walls or large objects as thick as at least 1 foot. Though you can see the souls of creatures faintly, this sight does not give you the ability to automatically discern if something is an illusion or not, instead it gives you advantage on Intelligence (Investigation) Checks to discern if an illusion of a living creature is real or not. Can use a number of times equal to your soul knife level per long rest.
Different creatures have different color souls.
BLACK - This creature wants you dead no matter what. YELLOW - This creature is hostile to you RED - This creature is indifferent to you BLUE - This creature is friendly to you PINK - This creature have a deep affection to you
Psychic Strike At 2nd level, you gain the ability to infuse your weapon strikes with destructive psychic energy. Whenever you hit a creature with an int modifier lower than yours with an attack, the attack deals an extra 1d6 psychic damage to the target. The damage increases when you reach 7th level to 2d6, 12th level to 3d6, 18th level to 4d6.
Soulknife Archtype At 3rd level, you choose an archtype that you strive to emulate: Soul Shaper or Seeker, both detailed at the end of the class description. Your choice grants you features at 3rd, 7th, 11th and 15th level.
Extra Attack Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Soul Weapon Starting at 5th level, you can take a hour during your long rest to fuse a magic weapon you are attuned to into your soul to make it your Soul Weapon. Your Soul Weapon can only manifest as the weapon it was originally and you gain proficiency with it if you don't already. You can only have one magic weapon fused at a time and if you were to attempt to fuse another, the previous becomes defused. This soul weapon does not count towards the number of summoned weapons.
Enhanced Mind Blade Starting at 6th level, your mind blades gains a bonus of +1 to attack and damage rolls. This feature increases to a +2 at level 11 and a +3 at level 17.
Speed Of Thought Starting at 7th level your ability to react and to perceive movements of the world around you grants you a 5ft bonus to your movement speed. You can choose one of the following:
When an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you, or You can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Psychic Assault - Beginning at level 9, as an action, you may manifest a number of Mind Blades equal to your Intelligence modifier and throw them at any number of target creatures within 30 feet of you. Make a ranged attack roll for each target. For each hit, the target takes 1d6 piercing damage, and a blade becomes embedded in the target. While the targets have at least 1 blade embedded in them, they lose 10ft of movement. The blades cannot be removed and the blades dissipate at the end of your next turn. You regain all uses of this feature at the end of a short or long rest.
Shatter Strike - At 9th Level your attacks begins tearing at the fabric of a creatures soul. Your attacks now critical hit on a 19-20. At 17th level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 18-20.
Mind Barrier Starting at 10th level, you gain resistance to psychic damage and advantage in saving throws against charm and mind control effects.
Soul Sever Beginning at level 13, you may choose to attempt to temporarily sever the soul of a creature. As an action, choose one target creature within 30 feet of you and it must make a Wisdom saving throw against your Soulknife Save DC. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 psychic damage and has disadvantage on attack rolls for it's next round. You can only use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier before taking a long rest.
Phantom Knife Starting at 14th level, you can make an attack that phases through most defenses. As a reaction, you can grant advantage your current attack roll. You can use this a number of times equal your intelligence modifier and recharge with a short or long rest.
Knife to the Soul Beginning at 18th level, when you hit a creature with the Mind Blade, you can choose to curse the creature with disavantage in Intelligence, Charisma or Wisdom (your choice) checks and saving throws. You need a long rest to use this ability again.
Mind Over Body At 20th level, your mind can become so powerful that no creature dare tamper with it and your mind transcends the body giving you the following benefits for one minute:
You are now immune to fear, charm, mind control effects and any affect that would attempt to alter your mind. You gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. Additionally, if you die, roll a d20. On a 10 or higher, you discorporate with 0 hit points, instead of dying, and you fall unconscious. You and your gear disappear. You appear at a spot of your choice 1d4 days later on the plane of existence where you died, having gained the benefits of one long rest.
also you don't age bro
Archetype - Soul Shaper
Shape Soul Starting at 3rd level you can now shape your Mind Blade into any weapon, you are considered proficient with it regardless of type. 2-handed weapon count as 2 summoned weapons.
Soul Armor Starting at 3rd level, you can now use your soul to protect you from harm by shaping it into a suit of armor. While wearing this armor, you are considered proficient in it and your AC is equal to the armor chosen. You must meet the armor's requirements to wear it. You can only cast once per day.
Soul Shackle Starting at 7th level, as an action you can choose up to four enemies within 30 feet of you. Those targets must make a Wisdom saving throw or become soul shackled to each other for one round, It can be refreshed each round as a bonus action. While soul shackled, targets share any incoming damage equally between all linked creatures. If the creature tries to break the link, it must make a Wisdom saving throw, if it pass it sets free from the effects of the link, if it fails, the link still breaks but the creature is stunned for one turn. You can use it a number of times equal to your intelligence modifier per short rest.
Power Of The Soul Starting at 7th level, you can choose 2 of the following effects and you gain two charges of each increase the number of Powers you know by 1 at 11th level and again at 15th level. It rechages at short or long rest.
Flames of Hatred: The attacks damage type becomes fire and the target must make a Dexterity Saving Throw against your Soulknife DC or be set on fire, a target that is on fire takes 1d10 fire damage at the start of their turn until they or another creature uses an action to douse the flames. This damage increases to 2d10 at level 10 and 3d10 at level 17
Calm Waters: Target must make a Wisdom Saving Throw against your Soulknife DC or be put to sleep for up to 1 minute, if the target takes any damage during this time it wakes up or if another creature uses its action to wake the creature. This time increases to 2 minutes at level 10 and 3 minutes at lvl 17
Freedom of Will: As a bonus action, you can end a Condition on self or an creature within 30 feet of you that has at least 1 hit point.
Fury Of The Gods: Target must make succeed in a Wisdom Saving Throw against your Soulknife DC or become infuriated. An infuriated creature must spend its turn moving towards the nearest creature, friend or foe, and attack it if possible. It repeats the save at the end of each of its turns.
Spirit Command: As a bonus action, you can choose a creature within 30 feet of you, other than yourself. If the target is willing, the target can move up to half their movement speed and use their reaction to take the Attack or Dodge actions. If the target is unwilling, the target must make a Wisdom Saving Throw against your Soulknife DC or be forced to use their reaction to move up to half of their movement speed.
Inferior Souls: Every creature with fewer total hit dice than you within 30 feet who can see you must make succeed in a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened of you until the end of their next turn.
Baneful Strike: Choose an item that the target is holding, it must succeed in a Constitution Saving Throw against your Soulknife DC or drop the item.
Soul Force: If the target is Large or smaller it must succeed in a Strength Saving Throw against your Soulknife DC or be pushed back 15 feet and it loses its reaction until the start of its next turn.
Binding Strike: Target that you hit must succeed in a Wisdom saving throw against your Soulknife DC or is blinded until the end of your next turn.
Warp Strike: As a bonus action, you may choose a creature within 30 feet of you and teleport to a space 5 feet away from that creature.
Soul Barrier At the 11th level, as an action, you can create a 40ft long and 20ft high line that prevents anything with a soul from crossing, pojectiles and anything without a soul can cross the barrier freely. If you move more than 60ft away from the barrier it fades. It lasts for one our. The barrier has your Soulknife level x 10 as HP, if it drops to 0 it's fully destroyed. It can only be hit with melee attacks and return damage equals to your intelligence modifier to anyone who touches it. You regain use of this feature after finishing a long rest.
Soul Crush At 17th level you can attempt to destroy the soul of a creature which the soul you can see and you are in melee with. Once per turn, as an action, target a creature and it must make a Intelligence Saving Throw against your Soulknife DC. On a failed save, the target's alignment (if it has one) changes to Neutral, and it ceases all action against you, becoming non-hostile. If the creature is attacked or damaged by your allies, or is forced to make a saving throw versus an effect created by an ally, it becomes hostile once more. If the target is a spirit or ethereal creature, it is reduced to 0 Hit points and destroyed. You can only use this feature an amount of times equal to your int modifier, before taking a long rest.
- Thanks for taking a look at the class. I had a look at some of the balances, and I thought that it'd be a good idea to clarify as to why the things are the way they are.
- Soul Sight: This feature, what would be considered pretty core to the class, is designed specifically for identifying creature types of creatures you can see, tis the same for the version where this came from. An emotion is subjective, a creature type is not.
- Mind Blade: 5e doesn't have differing modifiers for attack and damage. The base is always calculated off one stat, then others are added on, whether it be due to magic items, class features, etc.
- Psychic Strike: It is once per turn for a reason, and 99.9% of creatures will have an Int mod lower than yours.
- Speed of Thought: I originally thought that this was too powerful as well, however, given that their damage does not keep up with other martial or half-caster classes most times, they require the boost to their dodging capabilities.
- Psychic Assault: Same thing as Soul Sight. 2 blades embedded in the original meant the creature had no movement, automatically failed dex saves and the like. It's basically a semi-paralysis, minus the condition as the mechanism of locking the opponent in place is different. I had thought to make it something like stunned, but then that would be far too powerful.
- Shatter Strike: The improvement is at 15th simply because putting it later made the class too top-heavy, it's why a lot of later improvements were moved around in my last major edit.
- Soul Sever: The 1 minute is set on there so that it actually does things. Most creatures at this level won't particularly worry about disadvantage for the most part, so removing that bit makes the feature lacklustre, especially since it's save or suck.
- Phantom Knife, Mind over Body: These two features are taken almost wholesale from the UA mystic. Phantom Knife offers less damage and no CC for a basically guaranteed hit (minus critical failures/portents/etc.), which is a fair trade. Mind over Body is only slightly altered from its UA version, changing the bit about disease to fall better in line with Mind Barrier. Given that most of these things aren't normally in play anyway, minus the resistance (a barbarian gets the same through Rage, which is generally better anyway, and can be done multiple times a day), having this as a constant is fine. Also, Wizards are better at writing features than I am, so I'm more than willing to go with their judgement on this one.
- Knife to the Soul: This is meant to somewhat emulate ability drain from 3.5, and runs along a similar track to the feeblemind spell. At this level, characters are going to be doing things like this.
- Soul Armor: This is basically the Barbarian Unarmored Defense, using Int instead of Con, allowing the Defense Fighting Style (if you somehow have it) to stack, and allows you to use a mind blade to go sword-and-board. This shield specifically does not stack with Enhanced Mind Blade. Soul Shapers need the tankiness, or they die, due to no nova potential like a rogue has.
- Soul Shackle: The damage is there to offer a proper hard crowd control to a character that desperately needs it. Again, save or suck, so if it fails, you lose an action. Furthermore, it doesn't work with only one creature.
- Powers of the Soul: These run off a central pool of uses, and you get all of them to add versatility. They're not as strong as say, battle master fighter maneuvers, to require them to be picked.
- Soul Barrier: This is meant to be a wall of fire-esque effect, not a wall of stone one, hence the damage. It also allows creatures through on a successful save, and any smart creature will avoid that area.
- These insights come from almost 3 years of playtesting, tweaking, and re-playtesting, as well as quite a large amount of input from my DM and party, as well as other parties I've run and given this class to. The suggested changes nerf things that are fine, and strengthen things that were already nerfed in previous revisions as they were too broken. As it is, I'd actually probably call the class complete, minus one or two tweaks that may come up as my playtest nears completion. --Lethalitycomplex (talk) 06:30, 9 March 2019 (MST)
- Thanks for taking a look at the class. I had a look at some of the balances, and I thought that it'd be a good idea to clarify as to why the things are the way they are.
As an honest question, why is the damage for the soulknife's soul blade so low at later levels, especially for the soul shaper subclass who is more inclined towards melee fighting, should one of the feature they get be akin to the damage scaling of the seekers's damage increase from primal awareness(I imagine it would deal more damage than 1d6-1d12).
- The Soul Shaper gets the ability to change their weapon into any simple or martial weapon they desire, two handed weapons counting as both mindblades, so your mindblade will take both the damage and properties of the weapon you choose (a mind greatsword is exactly like a normal greatsword in damage and properties, for example). I can somewhat see what you mean in terms of one handed weapons though, but they don't lose out any vs. a fighter making the decision between sword and board or 2-handed combat. They ended up being a little more support-based than originally thought, but it doesn't end up being a bad thing, especially with the Spirit Command power and the ability to add extra nova that way. I hope that explains things a little bit, and I'll take a look at the Soul Shaper feature to see if it could be worded better. --Lethalitycomplex (talk) 02:08, 5 May 2019 (MDT)