Talk:Monolith (5e Spell)

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Quality Article Nomination[edit]

Featured article candidate .png This article is a current quality article nominee as of 14:52, 6 January 2022 (MST). Quality articles exemplify D&D Wiki's very best work, and therefore must meet the quality article criteria. Please discuss the page's merits below.

  • Support — I believe this spell to be quite useful, and overall think that it has a number of interesting aspects that make it unique. First, the spell is simply a good healing spell, with it eclipsing mass cure wounds, but not by too much. The caveat there is that this spell's healing doesn't come all at once which is both this spell's downside and what makes it so unique. Because this spell's healing is delayed, it enables allied creatures who fall unconscious to regain some hit points and rejoin combat without requiring any actions. At the same time though, the spell also has a physical presence and can be targeted and taken down to prevent much of the spell's healing. Given this spell's interesting design and otherwise useful nature in a number of ways, I support this spell becoming a quality article. --Blobby383b (talk) 14:52, 6 January 2022 (MST)
  • Support. - I adore this idea as an alternative to a healing nuke for all the reasons stated above, and it gives a unique shamanic flavor. --Malachai (talk) 22:13, 13 August 2022 (MDT)

*Oppose — This is much more powerful than other spells of its level. The idea that it could in total heal less hp than cure wounds doesn't make sense when to stop the spell the enemies have to deal 50 hp to a moderate AC creature. Which means that if they venture to try and stop the spell, it's like the caster has also stopped 50 damage from happening, along with the 2 turns of healing it would have gotten off on average, which would make it on par with mass cure wounds in the "bad case" ((13.5+8)*3=64.5, 50+2.5*6=65). It also heals any ally from 0 hp at the start of turn, preventing death unless monsters gang up on unconscious players. For comparison, death ward is a 4th level spell with an effect like this that only activates once. (Death ward isn't a good spell, but this ecplipses it too much for just one level difference, and it heals on top) On top of all that, the spell right now doesn't require concentration, so it can only be stopped by destroying the stone, and also it could even be cast multiple times (it also scales very well with spell slots). This isn't a huge point, but the life cleric subclass level 1 feature would add 7 hp to every instance of healing, which would make this insanely efficient.

My other point is that I don't see how a rock heals people. There's no flavor that tells me what's special about this monolith to have healing properties. Maybe the rune on the stone in the material components? I don't know. It makes more sense for druids and rangers, but clerics and paladins usually just heal directly, it requires some explanation. Lastly it should be written in second person, not "a stone rises from the ground" but "you raise a stone from the ground". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by vladulenta (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts.

Thanks for looking at this spell and providing some valuable feedback. Looking at your comment, I do agree that the spell needs some work and have gone ahead and made some edits to the fluff of the spell while making it so only rangers and druids can cast this spell. As for the spell's balance, I am more on the side of leaving it be (for now) as there are several downsides/counterplay to this spell compared to mass healing word ranging from: this spell's range (10 ft vs 60 ft), monsters grappling you or party members (before or after you are knocked unconscious) and moving you/your party member outside of the monolith's healing range (and in that same vein having to stay within range to get the healing), this spell's healing being delayed, aoes damaging the monolith as well as the party, etc. Despite this, I do agree with you that this spell is great, but I believe that this spell serves a different purpose than mass cure wounds and while looking at the damage prevention/healing provided between these two spells is quite useful, it doesn't show the whole picture. Either way, I would appreciate hearing more of your thoughts on this spell as it is good to hear other people's opinions, especially when you have a weird spell like this. --Blobby383b (talk) 14:28, 14 August 2022 (MDT)
Gaining hit points automatically at the beginning of a turn is quite good, so maybe this should be slowed down to only activate on the caster's turns. Upcasting can also be nerfed a bit in this case to only add 1 die per level to the first heal made on casting the spell, but I would personally up the dice to d6s to go along with that. If that's too good, it might benefit from concentration or demanding an action/bonus action to activate on subsequent turns. --Malachai (talk) 15:43, 14 August 2022 (MDT)
Nerfing the healing to only occur once a turn looks to be more than reasonable and is a decent way to nerf the spell. I do like how the spell's healing scales with upcasting and this spell having concentration removes the purpose of creatures targeting the monolith (they would target you) to stop the healing, so if possible, I would like to keep those aspects. If the spell is still too strong after the once per turn healing nerf perhaps lowering the stats of the actual monolith to have say 10 less hit points and 1/2 less AC and/or having to use your bonus action on subsequent turns to heal with the monolith seem like possible other ways to nerf the spell. --Blobby383b (talk) 19:19, 14 August 2022 (MDT)
I like the sound of it having 100hp at 9th level, so I don't want to see the HP nerfed but I think 10 AC and charging bonus actions sounds fair. --Malachai (talk) 19:52, 14 August 2022 (MDT)
Both nerfs reduce the spells power a lot, I would perhaps bump the AC up to 11/12 but otherwise don't believe any other changes are needed. Also, the info on ability scores isn't needed, objects auto fail str and dex saves and are immune to all other saves. --Blobby383b (talk) 22:15, 14 August 2022 (MDT)
Oh yeah, I guess I was thinking of artillerist artificer's eldritch cannon for the saving throws for some reason. --Malachai (talk) 17:42, 15 August 2022 (MDT)
  • Support — I think the spell, after the nerfs and changes, is appropriately balanced and flavored. Making the healing activate on a ba removes the "cast and forget" element of the spell that made it incredibly convenient and easy to use for high level casters. It being only for the natural casters gives it an interesting flavor. Small continuous healing is still quite dangerous because of how death works in this edition. But seeing as Tasha's has given aura of life to the cleric, which was until then a paladin exclusive spell with a similar effect to the past iteration of the stone, I think it fits with the current landscape of the game. Using a bonus action for 1d4 healing to everyone isn't great at the levels this spell is available, but that's the price for the spell not being concentration, and being tied to a 60hp wall that you can protect or hide. I actually think in this iteration it could be a 4th level spell without upsetting things too much, but that's up to preference. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by vladulenta (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts.
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