Talk:Kemonomimi (5e Race)

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Currently, kemonomimi is balanced like this:

Sub-race Traits Total Combined Total
Bear-Eared 3.5 5.5
Cow-Eared 3 5
Wolf-Eared 5 7
Cat-Eared 3.5 5.5
Feathered-Eared 3.5 5.5
Raccoon-Eared 3.5 5.5
Horse-Eared 4 6
Pig-Eared 3.5 5.5
Sheep-Eared 3.5 5.5
Bat-Eared 3.5 5.5
Dragon-Eared 4 6
Mouse-Eared 3.5 5.5
Monkey-Eared 3.5 5.5
Rabbit-Eared 3.5 5.5
Squirrel-Eared 3.5 5.5
Dog-Eared 3.5 5.5
Fin-Eared 3.5 5.5
Fox-Eared 5 7

Currently, the major problems Wolf-Eared and Fox-Eared can be nerfed by:

  • Wolf-Eared losing Pack Tactics to drop to 5. However, then the sub-race itself only has the +4 ASI, darkvision and advantage on perception relating to smell. Which makes this sub-race vastly inferior to all other sub-races, and compared to Half Elf that gets basically the same as this but better with Skill Versatility and more. Thus, despite the Musicus meter saying so, I think this sub-race should stay as is.
  • Fox-Eared losing Fox Cunning, renamed Gnome Cunning, to drop to 5, but again, like Wolf-Eared, the race would then only have +4 ASI, darkvision, and advantage on ONE Charisma based per long rest. Which again, is even worse than Half-Elf which can get proficiency in the skills. Because advantage increases the average of skill check to 13.82, meanwhile proficiency increases the average to 12.5-16.5, becoming about the same as the one-time advantage once the player hits level 4, and strictly better once the player hits level 10.

With the next big problems being:

  • Horse-Eared could lose Swift Steed, which is Fleet of Food, however, Charge becomes increasingly harder to use, with its only features being the Relentless Endurance and Charge with the +4 ASI, and doesn't make the sub-race, special.
  • Cow-Eared could be buffed by giving a feature worth 0.5, however, it already has an abundance of features, so its unnecessary.

However, the sub-race's balance differential should be allowed as for this, the meter rating is 5-7, which is the exact same as the Genasi which is also 5-7. --Alearori (talk) 18:13, 13 April 2018 (MDT)

You seem to have a good mechanical grasp of things and you edits have certainly improved the race. However, number of things of note:
  1. Traits should be ordered alphabetically.
  2. You're missing the "score" after the ability, so "Your Dexterity score increases by 2."
  3. Wings are at a minimum worth 1 so they can't be worth 0.5.
  4. Conditions should be referenced anytime they come up.
  5. There are still a few wording issues mentioned in the previous maintenance template so try to be thorough in your search. - Medium not medium, incapacitated not Incapacitated, heroism not heroism, etc.
  6. Hibernation Preparation should be kept to the previous mechanic of additional food grants temporary hit points.
  7. Pig Fat is worth 1.5 on the Musicus Meter, again make sure to be thorough in your search.
  8. Bat Roost uses round/turn counting which goes against standard so consider reworking/rewording this.
  9. Remember the Musicus Meter is meant to be used alongside your own judgment on balance and not a hard rule.
  10. You haven't mentioned or corrected the issue outlined in the stub so should you have really removed the maintenance template?
--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by ConcealedLight (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts.
I don't deny any of ConcealedLight's points, but I do feel a need to reinforce that you've done great work with this article, Alearori. As far as I understand it, all of the above are minor points; And much as I love fluff, and always enjoy more, as I see it this article stands well on its own already (though, finer mechanical balancing is outside my understanding).
Are we trying to make this a Featured Article, or somethin'? Alphabetically ordering traits? Linking every noun ever? Is any of that actually necessary, or just fineries? (Clearly not even necessary for our own FAs)
Either way, in an attempt to be useful and avoid the skilled type-users from dealing with faffy bureacracy, I've gone 'n addressed points 1, 2, and the example issues ConcealedLight brought up. As Alearori said, if there are further faulty or missing SRD references, perhaps it'd be easier to address them as they're noticed; I think they've already gone above and beyond their duty in such regard. --SgtLion (talk) 20:05, 14 April 2018 (MDT)
Thank you for fixing those points SgtLion. As for the other points regarding the balancing, I have redone the balancing of the meter to make it the following:
Sub-race Traits Total Combined Total
Bear-Eared 4 6
Cow-Eared 4 6
Wolf-Eared 5 7
Cat-Eared 4 6
Feathered-Eared 4 6
Raccoon-Eared 4 6
Horse-Eared 4 6
Pig-Eared 4 6
Sheep-Eared 4 6
Bat-Eared 4 6
Dragon-Eared 4 6
Mouse-Eared 4 6
Monkey-Eared 4 6
Rabbit-Eared 4 6
Squirrel-Eared 4 6
Dog-Eared 4 6
Fin-Eared 4 6
Fox-Eared 5 7
Upon fixing the Musicus Meter to the correct settings, I have noticed a couple of sub-races were 6 while the rest was 5.5, thus I have buffed the other subraces to equal 6 as well. Thus, this new table should now accurately shows the total rating of each trait, unless I am wrong about the rating of the traits or I miscounted.
However, as a majority of the change was that traits got buffed, the number of traits remains the same, but it is ultimately not as good as Half-Elf which also has +4 ASI, but 7 on the meter. Personally, I would like to avoid getting that high with each individual subrace. So with the changes, the sub-races that were misrepresented are now substantially more powerful, and almost everything is up to scale with each other according to the meter.
As I cannot read beyond the stubs contents, and I think I have fixed all of your points, if you have more problems, please say them. --Alearori (talk) 23:00, 14 April 2018 (MDT)
I've made a few corrections and am mostly satified with the quality. It still isn't explained at all why having animal ears grants this race the benefits it has but no one seems to care about that and I'm not going to continue to talk about it when no one seems willing to acknowledge the elephant in the room. Make sure to add the {{Musicus|score}} at the top of this talk page. --ConcealedLight (talk) 06:57, 15 April 2018 (MDT)
The conversation is long over so now I'll chime in on that elephant. In the actual idea and in the traits, it is apparent they have things other than the ears, like horns, altered stature and whatnot. But the ears are clearest sign of this.
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