Talk:Bulwark (5e Class)
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Hey guys, tell me what you think and how to improve this ! :)
- 1 Jugggernaut vs Bulwark
- 2 No ribbons?
- 3 Wow
- 4 Strain and how it works
- 5 Path of the Survivor: Leg Focus
- 6 Path of the Survivor: Tough Constitution
- 7 Level 10: Tighten the Flesh
- 8 Level 17: Full Sacrifice
- 9 Level 18: Survivor's Reward
Jugggernaut vs Bulwark
Hey, I wonder.... Check out the Juggernaut class. I wonder who would win if the bulwark and the juggernaut fought!
Juggernaut. It has more damage options, and the bulwark doesn't. However, i'm just assuming they're at 1st level.
While I like and dislike a lot of this class, I think the biggest issue that hasn't been noted is there's nothing here for out of combat use really. Even fighters get out of combat abilities. I'd consider replacing some level with a ribbon feature or two
Nice, I didn't see there was already a class similar to what I had in mind, very cool !
Thanks for pointing it out ^^.
As for who would win... no idea O_O.
I wonder why Athletics is not included in the list of starting skill proficiencies, if it came down to a grappling match, that might make the difference...
Strain and how it works
Heya, i'm currently using your class in a Campaign i'm in, and although it's very cool i'm just concerned in how the strain points work, because they use your proficiency modifyer as the pool you have such a small amount of uses, but the description of how strain works with exhaustion is interesting
i was just wondering if the exhaustion pool acts the same as the strain pool, but that the strain pool is you exerting yourself with no ill side effects, example: with prof of +3 and the 3rd lvl feat that reduces damage taken by each strain accumulated if i used all 3 strain and was 2 lvls of exhaustion would i have a -3 to damage or a -5?
On Strain and How it works
Ha ! Yeah, good question !
I'd have to say it would reduce incoming damage by 5 points. The trade-off with disadvantage from the exhaustion seem fair. :D
Also, thanks a lot for playing my class !! Hope you enjoy it !
And please give me some feedback on how you used it, what was its strong points and weaknesses, and if you have any suggestions on how to improve/fine-tune it.
At Higher Levels
I'm not claiming to be great at making or knowing how powerful or weak class features can be but, in my honest opinion as a player some of the higher level abilities feel like you got halfway through making a class and just started throwing random abilities on.
I will only be listing class features that I think need work done on.
Path of the Survivor: Leg Focus
Some better wording would be nice like the Level 15 feature Tricky Trick.
Edit : Done !
Path of the Survivor: Tough Constitution
Feels like it was added without any real thought compared to other features, One resistance of your choice at 11th level is not a good feature.
Edit : Doubled it, better ?
Level 10: Tighten the Flesh
This ability with an empty pool will heal you a maximum of 22 points at level 20 with maxed constitution compare that to a Fighters Second Wind which heals on average 26, though this is assuming that you use no abilities and just heal.
Also why does this ability say you can use it 5 times per short rest? I have found no ways for you to lose Strain Points other than long resting and this ability will fill your Stain Pool, so an explanation would be nice.
Edit : The only explanation I have is that it was a mistake, "As a Bonus Action, you may heal for an amount equal to twice your max Strain Points. You can use this ability up to 3 times per short rest. " Better ?
Level 17: Full Sacrifice
If at 17th level you are still fighting enemies that deal nonmagical damage your DM is doing something wrong because I'm pretty sure no enemies that a 17th level party should be facing deal nonmagical damage.
Like come on a 3rd level Totem Barbarian is loads better than this 17th level feature.
Edit : changed it and switched lvl 10 and lvl 17 bonuses.
Level 18: Survivor's Reward
At 18th level gaining your choice of 2 resistances is not a good ability, it might have been good at lower levels but nearly at max I would say this is a bad ability. In my opinion gaining Immunity to your choice of damage would be a better 18th level ability than this.
I know this comes off as me hating the class but I really enjoy the idea and a lot of the abilities that are here, it's just in my opinion some of the features need worked on so that we have a better class overall rather than a strong early level class and a bad high levels.
Edit: Changed to 2 immunities since, like for your other comments, this is spot-on too ;) Thanks for the feedbacks. --Holic (talk) 19:32, 27 December 2018 (MST)
Reddit Submission Recommendations
"First off, I seen this class before and a player of mine wanted to try it, so i let him build a lvl 10 version of it and i made a tank version of srd classes.
This class is kinda weird cause it is strong and weak at the same time,
Please try taking it to Homebrewery, atleast it will be put in a secure place that only you can edit yourself.
First Level Features: Strain points-When using points, such as ki, sorcery or psi, they are limited by your level. So Strain points should be equal to your level. add Bulwark Proficiency: You gain proficiency in Smithing tools, and specialize in crafting armor and a signature shield.
Bulwark Shield: Recommended Version-You are able to wield a specific shield known as "The Bulwark Shield" This shield gives the normal +2 to ac property of normal shields, but it also gives you half cover (which grants an additional +2 to ac) and can be used a number of unique ways. You can choose one of the following techniques at level 1, then choose another one at levels 6 and 14.
Great Bash: As an Action, you can use your shield as a weapon. You are proficient with this weapon and add your strength modifier to the to hit and damage. The attack deals 1d6 bludgeoning (2d6 at level 7, 3d6 at level 11, 4d6 at level 15) damage. On a successful hit, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw (Dc=8+prof+str) Or become stunned until your next turn.
Great Push: As an Action, you may force a creature, of a size one larger than yours or smaller that you are in melee range of, to make a Strength saving throw (DC of 8+Proficiency+Strength modifier.) On a fail.
The creature is pushed back 10ft (20ft at level 7, 30ft at level 11, 40ft at level 15), takes 1d6 Bludgeoning damage per 10 feet pushed.
Great Leap: As an Action, after moving at least 10 feet. You can leap towards a creature within your maximum movement speed. They must make a Dexterity saving throw (Dc=8+prof+str), on a failed save they receive 1d6 bludgeoning damage. (the damage increases by 1d6, at 7th 11th and 15th) level and are knocked prone. On a successful save, you fall prone instead.
Using any of these actions grants you 1 Strain point.
Tactics of Survival and Sacrifice:
Leg Focus As an Action, you may Sacrifice 2AC to gain 10ft of movement for 1 minute. At level 10 you may sacrifice 6AC to gain 30ft of movement for 1 minute.
Shield Focus As an Action, you may Sacrifice 10ft of movement to gain 2AC for 1 minute. At level 10 you may sacrifice 20ft of movement to gain 4AC for 1 minute.
You may end any of these effects before their duration expires as a Bonus Action on your turn. (minor benefit pairing.)
Reflexes of Survival and Sacrifice.
Full Sacrifice As a Reaction, you may sacrifice 2AC equal to your level to intercept an attack, shielding an ally within 5ft of you from an attack. You become the target of the attack instead.
At level 10 Spending 4Ac if attack that is being intercepted at you if it has a saving throw can be made with advantage.
At level 17 the attack being intercepted will be made as if you had resistance to its damage type if it is a slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing hit.
Partial Sacrifice As a Reaction, Attacks that target you or an ally, or have AoE. You may Sacrifice 3AC to give to your ally, 3Ac or advantage on the saving throw.
Unpredictable Defense As a Reaction, You may sacrifice 3AC to impose disadvantage on all attacks made by a target creature against an ally within 5ft of you until the start of your next turn. (Minor rewording and tweeks, still fun.)
Armor Expertise: (Rename as Bulwark Armored due to armor feats with similar name.) Starting level 2, you've learned to maximize the efficiency of each piece of an armor set.
While wearing medium or heavy armor, you can now negate the disadvantage to stealth rolls, as well as use Strength instead of Dexterity for your Armor Class. (Figured it would be a great way to give a benefit to strength and ac since it has a plus and cost mechanic.)
Recommend remove Bulkwark training at 4th level and the every 2 levels thing.
Extra Attack is usually a 5th level thing, i would recommend you have it be so and maybe adjust the archetypes a bit. (which will be covered at the end.)
Skills of Survival and Sacrifice: Trick Opening-As a Bonus Action, You may sacrifice 6AC to impose disadvantage on all attacks against you until your next turn.
Tighten the Flesh- As a Bonus Action, you may spend an amount of hit dice equal to your level+con+your current strain points, and recover that in hit points. once you use this feature you cannot use it again until a short rest.
Shield Sweep-As an Action, all enemies within melee range (5ft) of you must make a Dexterity saving throw against a (DC= 8+Proficiency+Strength). On a failed save, they fall prone.
(Pretty nice options but should be more costly for some.)
Might of Survival and Sacrifice: Ultimate Smite: As an Action make a melee attack against a creature within range, this attack is a critical on a 19-20. On a hit, you deal 8d6+(current Strain points)bludgeoning damage to target creature. Using this ability gives you 2 points of Strain.
Ultimate Rescue- As a Reaction, you jump to target creature within 20ft and is protected from the damage of an attack, however if the attack an AoE spell or effect, they can make the save at advantage, if they succeed and would take half damage, you take it instead. Using this ability gives you 2 points of Strain.
Survivors Reward (rename to Bulwalk Master, sounds cooler personally.) At level 18, you gain resistance to 2 damage types of your choice from: Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing, Force, and Thunder Damage. (saw the option, should make clear what damages should be chosen from due to damage types like psychic which a shield doesn't protect you from.)
The Might of Strain At level 20, double your Strain point pool maximum. Completely fine.
Path of Protector: Unbreakable (rename to Resilience in Battle): You can use a reaction to reduce the amount of damage received by spending strain points.
Big Basher: Your shield now deals 1d8 instead of 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
Effortless Leap (rename to Mighty Leap): When using Great Leap, you now can travel double your maximum movement speed.
Force Burst: When you use swift burst (shield sweep), you push them back 10 feet, dealing your shields damage and knock them prone on failed save.
Path of the Survivor:
Long Jump (rename Bulwark Cover): You are now able to affect 2 creatures within 10ft of you, moving them to a space within 5ft of you. (think of it as you move, and adjust their positions to be protected from the attack.)
Faster: Leg focus now costs 1 less and grants an additional 10 movement.
Intimidating Push: After a successful great push, you can make an intimidation check towards a creature that sees you within 30ft. on a failed save they are frightened of you.
Toughened Constitution (rename to Hardened Steel): You gain resistance to a damage type, choose one from Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing, Force, and Thunder.
Tricky Trick (rename to Deceitful): Trick opening now requires 1 ac less.
Personally the class is interesting but has so much focus on Ac Increase and reduction, I would recommend if you apply these changes that you also maybe add additional abilities, such as ability to add your shields bonus to Strength, Dexterity saving throws as a 7th level ability so extra attack can be a 5th level.
I hope my feedback helps!"
Re : Reddit Submission Recommendations
Wow ! Yes, this definetly helps, but I'm going to take a little time to sort through all of it and see where and what to implement, but most of your sugesstions look awesome !
Thanks for the feedback:) !
I'll get on this massive update as soon as possible and let you know.
A bit absurd
Full disclosure, haven't read past their 5th level features.
If I'm reading this correctly, the bulwark shield gives you +7 AC vs a normal shield's +2. Which means right out of the gate, you have a level one character with 23 AC, 24 at level two, and 26 once they get their hands on plate mail. To top it off there's mechanic for increasing the AC even more with rare materials. I know that there is a mechanic for sacraficing AC, but even then, it doesn't seem like it would go below 20 very often, and considering that they are a d12 hit die, it seems pretty crazy and messes with 5e's bounded accuracy. Also, Extra attack at level 4? That's a pretty large power boost to give early for little reason.--ADragon (talk) 22:00, 31 March 2019 (MDT)
Re: A bit Absurd
Hi, I'm the one who made the class and thanks for pointing this out because I find some things in there that I never put there. Such as : "Also if made of Stronger Materials add +1 ac for each step of rarity." or "it grants +3AC plus of the value of the basic shield."
It was never meant to be like that, it is supposed to grant just +3 AC. Someone changed it.
Someone also messed up the attacks... I feel like this is on purpose, someone just changed everything to make their DM approved Homebrew choice OP as hell... Bloody $ù@'éà! I'm not going to have time to check everything to put it back how it was.
Maybe the admins can find the sabotage edit and revert it to a previous version ?
Then there's the variant version posted by Justsomedndplayers.
Re: A bit Absurd
Wow that is rough that someone messed up what you were going for. I thought this was a bit overpowered but now that I see that someone has modified it to make it so, I understand why. As I don't know your original intent, I am going to make suggestions based on what I see, modify as applicable to your original content. As written right now it seems to have some of the best features of the fighter and barbarian (extra attacks, heavy armor, hp) and then add to that a higher AC and better saves, and added special attacks / control options, that is a bit much I think. What I would suggest is you drop all extra attacks, dropped down to a d10 HD, remove any movement enhancement features and drop their normal speed by 5' to make them the slow but unstoppable tank and then have them concentrate on defense and control. That would seem a little bit more balanced to me. Otherwise I like the concept.
Dear, OP, I came back to look at one of my favorite homebrew classes and noticed that it was up for deletion. I want to avoid that at all costs cause, like I said, it is one of my favorites. I am going to , make a couple band-aid fix changes for the time being to address the problem at hand. I just wanted to let you know in case you do not notice the deletion warning in time before it happens. I would be happy to help find a more reasonable fix for the long run to keep this class' identity if you would be open to accept outside opinions.
I've made a couple changes in hopes it'll keep the mods off your class' back for a little bit until you think of a better fix. I took some of the flat AC bonus' that it was complaining about and gave him a little more versatility and utility. Of course at the end of the day this is your class and your baby, I just did not want it to end up deleted and wanted to help out before that happened. I am sorry if I overstepped by changing things before your consultation and feel free to change whatever you disliked. I would be happy to explain any changes I have made and why I thought they were necessary, thanks a lot for the hard work you put in making the class!
- One more thing to change: this class’ second extra attack comes earlier than the fighters, making it too good. The second extra attack needs to be delayed to at least level 11 but preferably at least 13, so as to not outclass the fighter. — Geodude (talk | contribs | email) . . 19:16, 12 November 2019 (MST)
Ahh I see it now, I was confused cause I knew for sure I changed that but what happened was that I didn't change it in the overview table, thanks a lot for having me read it back over. Let me know if there is anything else I've missed.
I am currently working on a variant of this class and I am considering posting it on the class page and of course giving credit to the original creator of it though when I played the class I found myself abusing certain abilities and others seemed lack luster. Additionally, the edit I have made was for balance purposes. Most creatures, even high level, can not do enough damage to get past the accumulated damage reduction due to the strain. In order to alleviate this I have halved the amount, though honestly I have yet to play test this version. If anyone would like to see what I come up with in the variant I would be happy to share with you, just let me know here. Thanks a lot for all your input!