Talk:Beast-Borne (5e Race)

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Bird subrace[edit]

In my opinion this race needs a little more work regardless, but let me just say I strongly disagree with the addition of the "Birds" subrace. The other subraces each have a minor boost that can be used once before a short rest, but birds have a flying speed (which is a HUGE boon) that can be used all the time. Consider the only official race to have a flying speed, aarakocra, has practically no other useful traits other than its flying speed. Disadvantage on strength checks is not remotely sufficient drawback, and even if it was 5e philosophy encourages racial traits that open doors instead of ones that burn bridges. Even if that wasn't the case, the bird subrace doesn't mesh with the others even in terms of aesthetic or style. It's really out of place for many reasons (e.g. it's also the only non-mammal subrace), and I think it should be removed or made into a separate race. - Guy (talk) 13:49, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Really like the recent edit you've done here Alearori. I still believe that the flight needs to be toned down and brought in line with the other sub-races traits though. Also, this page needs more information on the race imo and you missed the darkvision reference, Darkvision. ConcealedLight (talk) 15:40, 30 November 2017 (MST)

Based on the Musicus Meter, the 40ft flying with wings is worth 4, having wings is -2, armor restriction is -1, and alteration is -0.5. So it's total worth is 0.5, which is the same as the other subrace's features. But yes, this page is in need of more flavor. And thank you for the correction, those references are hard to remember. --Alearori (talk) 15:58, 30 November 2017 (MST)
It's no problem, however, while I myself use Musicus Meter a lot with all the race balancing I do, it is important to remember that it is a guideline rather than a hard rule as such it was built with the intention that its users take into consideration things that make the race too strong. I don't believe Musicus Meter is correct with its Flying rules and due to 40ft of flying being such a dominating as well as out of place feature I would ask you to reconsider. ConcealedLight (talk) 17:09, 30 November 2017 (MST)
How low would you say the flying speed should be then? --Alearori (talk) 18:26, 30 November 2017 (MST)
Most of the sub-races that the Beast-Borne have some sort of limit on their use. As such, I'd probably give them a limited form a flight to keep with that theme maybe linking their flight to their proficiency bonus so they can only fly xx ft per rest and then allow them to glide. Generally, the issue most people have with races that can fly is that they dominate early game because lower level adventuring modules act under the assumption players don't have access to flight as such with this chance done right they are limited early on in a way that most modules only need to be tweaked slightly if at all while still giving them access to an innate flight that will then get better once they leave this tier of the play. ie when a caster would be able to get the fly spell. Thus balancing it out pretty well I think. Also, I've actually spoken to Musicus about this and I plan to test this profiency based form of flight in about a months time. ConcealedLight (talk) 03:55, 1 December 2017 (MST)

Balance Changes Reasoning[edit]

So here's the list of changes and why:

  • Removal of Base race's ASI: There's no way this will work since it will give a total of +5 ASI and the fact that the ASI combines with the subraces, especially with Birds giving a +4 Wisdom ASI.
  • Removal of running speed when on all fours: Birds don't have 4 legs, and this part isn't properly defined, so I removed it.
  • Made all Darkvision be 60 feet: The range difference makes players want to make a nocturnal animal to get 120ft darkvision. And if diurnal gets darkvision too, there's not much point in the range difference, since the major reason to have darkvision is to not be blind in darkness.
  • Animal Instincts to give survival proficiency instead: Shouldn't give advantage, give proficiency instead.
  • Removal of Fight or Flight: First of all, Extra Attack shouldn't be given to a race. And the fact that Fight or Flight is a instinct given to all creatures. But other than that, there's no way to balance this trait to make it work while staying within the Musicus' Meter, along with the fact there are too many traits.
  • Natural Weapons changes: First of all, you could always attack during a grapple, the 2nd to last line is unnecessary. The last line would be worth +0.5 on the meter, so it's removed, along with the interaction this could potentially have when using Extra Attack.
  • Removal of Animal Attributes: This is what subrace is for.
  • Removal of Feral Rage: This is a niche trait so it's worth +0.5 on the meter. But I removed it because there are too many traits on this race.
  • Removal of Play Possum: First of all, not all animals play possum, making this a weird trait to have. Second thing is that this feature has alot of wording problems making it a pain to fix (like it asks for a test instead of a check). Also, this race has too many traits, so I removed it.
  • Defined Beastal: Made Beastal work like Gnome's Speak with Small Animals, so that it doesn't seem like Speak with Animals
  • Nerfed Pack Mentality: If being with your party fills you with strength, how does that make your party smarter? But other than that, I had to nerf it so it's in acceptable range on the Musicus' Meter.
  • Nerfed Vulpine Cunning: There's no such thing as a bluff check. And the removal of thieves' tool proficiency is to make it in acceptable range on the Musicus' Meter.
  • Ursine Slumber: Defined when it activates, and changed how much is gained cause 2 is arbitrary.
  • Nerfed Graceful Flight: Is worth too high on the Musicus' Meter, so I applied nerfs so that it's now +0.5.

Each of the subraces now totals to 6.5 on the Musicus' Meter, making it still slightly above the reasonable range, but it seems balanced now. --Alearori (talk) 15:58, 30 November 2017 (MST)

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