User talk:Aarnott/Epic Spider Rider Suggestion

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Epic Spider Rider Suggestion[edit]

Thanks for the offer to help me make a spider rider. I am not going to try to optimise, but to make a Spider Rider that is fun to play and reasonably strong. Thanks. Oh, the campaign starts at level 30. We have been told that we would spend most of our time in the 9 hells (against devils), and that we would receive Leadership and Epic Leadership as bonus feats. Oh, and the DM also ruled that the inherent bonuses to characteristics from those books that increase characteristics (like the Tome of Clear Thought) stack. For some reason that I cannot fathom.

Here is the character I have so far:


Character Name: Not Yet Decided
Player Name: Sam Kay
Class and Level: Paladin of freedom 1/Spider Rider 19
ECL: 30
Race/Template: Drow (LA +0 Variant)
Size: Medium-Sized
Gender: Male
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Religeon/Patron Deity: Arachne
Height: 5' 1"
Weight: 113lbs.
Age: 130

Hit Points: 373

Ability Scores[edit]

Str: 27 (16 without magic items)
Dex: 39 (27 without magic items)
Con: 25 (14 without magic items)
Int: 21 (12 without magic items)
Wis: 19 (14 without magic items)
Cha: 27 (18 without magic items)

Combat Options[edit]

Base Attack Bonus: +25
+5 Speed, Axiomatic-Anarchic, evil outsider bane shock Alchemical Siver Lance: +34/+34/+29/+24/+19 (D8+13/x3)
Grapple: +33

Speed and initiative[edit]

Speed: 30ft
Initiative: +14

Saving Throws[edit]

Fortitude: +24
Reflex: +25
Will: +15

Armor Class[edit]

Armor Class: 51 (10 +0 Armor Bonus, +7 Shield Bonus, +14 Dex, +4 Wis, +0 Size Bonus, +0 Natural Armor, +0 Deflection Modifier, +16 Miscenellaneous Modifier)
Touch AC: 42
Flat-Footed AC: 37

Armor Worn:
Shield Carried: +5 Ghost Ward Heavy Steel Shield

Spells per Day[edit]

1st: 2
2nd: 2
3rd: 1

Standard Spells[edit]


Cure Light Wounds (2)


Bulls Strength (2)


Heal Mount (1)

Turn/Rebuke Undead[edit]

Times Per Day: 11
Turning Check: +8
Turning Damage: 2D6+15

Rebuke Spiderform[edit]

Times Per Day: 11
Turning Check: +8
Turning Damage: 2D6+28

Skills (ranks)[edit]

Diplomacy: 33
Handle Animal: 33
Knowledge Nature: 33
Listen: 33
Ride: 33
Search: 33
Spot: 33
Swim: 13
Use Rope: 33

Racial Traits/Class Features[edit]

Spider Empathy, Planar Web 4/day, Summon Spider Swarm 3/day, Spider Jump 120ft (740ft), Rebuke Spiderform, Perfect Rider +4, Summon Spider IV 3/day, Summon Spider V 3/day, Summon Spider VI 2/day, Divine Health, Turn Undead, Master Rider, Spider Knight, Spider Calling 2/day, Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 3/day, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Remove disease 2/week.


Mounted Combat, Knight of Lolth Arachne, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge, Reach Weapon Fighting (Lance), Divine Justice, Disordered Law, Holy Strike (Epic), Additional Magic Item Space (Belt, Epic), Dire Charge (Epic), Damage Reduction (Epic) x3.


Common, Elven, Undercommon, Drow Sign.

Magic Items[edit]

Headband of intellect +6, Amulet of Health +6, Cloak of Charisma +6, Ring of Freedom of Movement, Ring of Virtuos Good, Boots of Swiftness, 2 Gloves of storing (they come as individuals- one for lance, one for shield), Bracers of Armor +10, Belt of Giant Strength +6, Monk's Belt, Ioun Stones: Dusty Rose Prism, Clear Spindle and Iridescant Spindle, Arachnid Rod and Daern's Instant Fortress, one of each of those books that you read to grant you a +5 bonus to a characteristic.


Spyglass, Backpack, Bedroll, Winter Blanket, Scroll Case, Flask, Flint and Steel, Silk Rope (spun by my spider), Signet Ring, Sealing Wax, Exotic Riding Saddle, Bit and Bridle, Saddlebags, A rather large Book on Spiders, Ink and Inkpen, Small Steel Mirror, Parchment (200), Sewing Needle, Tent.


Starting Money: 4,300,000 Gp
Current Money: 626854 Gp, 7 Sp, 7 Cp (do Sp and Cp even exist? They feel so negligible that they might not even exist!)

Spider Mount[edit]

Name: Not Yet Decided
Gender: Female Size: Huge Creature Type: Magical Beast (vermin, Lycosidae)

Ability Scores[edit]

Str: 32 (+11)
Dex: 26 (+8)
Con: 22 (+6)
Int: 21 (+5)
Wis: 14 (+2)
Cha: 27 (+8)

Initiative and Speed[edit]

Initiative: +16
Speed: 120ft

Hit Dice and Hit Points[edit]

Hit Dice: 24 (4D8, 19D10)
Hit Points: 292

Armor Class[edit]

AC: 43 (10 +6 Armor, +8 Dex, -2 Size, +13 Nat Armor, +8 Enhancement)
Touch AC: 38
Flat-Footed AC: 36

Saving Throws[edit]

Fortitude: +20 (+14/1)
Reflex: +22 (+14/1)
Will: +10 (+8/1)


+5 Speed, Holy Bite (Fang Weapon): +36/+36/+31/+26/+21 (2D8+20/20) and poison (+20)
Grapple: +39


Jump: +39
Spot: +41
Climb: +37
Hide: +37
Use Rope: +36
Move Silently: +36
Search: +20
Concentration: +22


Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Natural Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (bite), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Ability Focus (Poison), Run, Epic Improved Initiative (Epic), Armor Skin (Epic)

Special Abilities[edit]

Pounce, Web (-4 to DCs and Hp), Poison, Unbreakable Spider Bond, Shrink 3/day, Improved Evaision, Share Spell, Uncanny Dodge, Slippery Mind, Share Saving Throws.

Magic Items (equiped on the spider)[edit]

Bracers of armor (slotted over the spider's leges and strapped in place), Tome of Bodily Health +4 (A spider Rider's Spider can read), Tome of Gainful Excercize +4, Arachnida Ring of Transformation, Arachnida Ring of Speed


Thanks again! --Sam Kay 11:02, 21 December 2007 (MST)

So the first question to ask is what role you plan on having in your party. I would be the tank if I were you. Also I would get 20 Spider rider levels and lose 5 of the Paladin levels. It will help greatly. By the way the Spider Rider should keep advancing the spider in HD at epic levels. Epic feats are the most important, and as a tank I would take (this is assuming 10 Paladin levels) SRD:Spellcasting Harrier (21), SRD:Improved Combat Reflexes (24), SRD:Dire Charge (24 bonus), SRD:Damage Reduction (Feat) x3 (27,28 bonus, 30). Then you will want to make yourself bigger (Permanency enlarge maybe) use a reach weapon like a lance, get the shorten haft feat so you can attack adjacent dudes and charge in to threaten all enemy spellcasters. You may want to get improved whirlwind if you think you will be fighting a lot of dudes. I just think 9 DR will save your butt a lot. I'll have a lot more suggestions once you tell me the role you want to fill. --Aarnott 12:00, 21 December 2007 (MST)
I am the Fast Attack, I suppose, as it is the role the Spider Rider accells in. Although those feats do help. I had actually forgotten about the number of epic feats I had (it was origionally a level 21 campaign and then it got upped to 30). I think we might end up with another person tanking though, so I think it would be better to be fast attack. I am not sure about spellcasting harrier: I am not so sure how useful it would be with the DM we have or with my new "ride-by-attack" style of play... The same with improved combat reflexes. Wouldn't it be better to have Holy Strike as we will be against mostly devils (lawful evil). That would mean an extra 4D6 damage against most foes, due to my anarchic weapon. I don't have the book the shorten haft feat is in. And I don't think I will try the enlarge thing as I prefer being medium. Other than that, great advice! I will just update the character sheet above... --Sam Kay 12:31, 21 December 2007 (MST)
If your DM doesn't use spells for epic monsters then you won't have much trouble with anything -- trust me on that. Holy Strike is good -- keep it. If you are going to be speedy, then there are a lot of magic items I can suggest. SRD:Boots_of_Swiftness are amazing and also can free up that double glove item slot feat you took! SRD:Ring of Chaotic Fury or SRD:Ring of Virtuous Good --> +4 saves, +4 deflection to AC, 25 spell resistance against law (devils), can't be mentally dominated by lawful effects, if a lawful creature hits you they have to make a DC 18 will save or be confused for 1 round. SRD:Ring of Freedom of Movement so that you can never stop moving. SRD:Horseshoes of Speed should be allowed to be modified for your spider. Either that or the boots of swiftness! Yes they really are that good. Buy mithral armor so that it counts as medium and you get better ride checks. Buy a mithral breastplate for your spider (not bracers of armor) -- Armor check -1, Max dex +5, 5600 gp (though I would argue 17600 if I were DMing) plus enchantments, +5 armor bonus. A +5 version of that would cost 30600 gp (for +10 AC that is a bargain). --Aarnott 13:16, 21 December 2007 (MST)
Also to note -- a breastplate is just a suggestion. Since your spider loses max dex, a chainshirt might be better (just 1 less ac and no check penalties as well as being cheaper). --Aarnott 13:19, 21 December 2007 (MST)
I already have +5 padded armor (thats what the +6 armor bonus is), and changing it to any other type of armor would actually reduce AC. Other than that, I have done what you suggested- replaced gloves of dexterity and trackless boots with boots of speed, Replaced all rings with freedom of movement and Ring of Virtuous Good, and took an Arachnida Ring of Speed. Have you any more suggestions? --Sam Kay 01:43, 22 December 2007 (MST)
Well a quick thing I noticed was that you still have the additional glove slot (which is unneeded). IBracers don't take up the glove slot. I'd get an additional belt slot and but a monk's belt. It adds your wisdom bonus to AC plus an additional 1. Your AC would be 10 +8 armor +4 deflection +14 dex +5 wisdom +7 shield +1 insight +1 monk = 50. A SRD:Pit Fiend will need a 20 to hit you. Unfortunately a creature that you are very likely to fight will still have no problems hitting you SRD:Infernal. You can trade a feat to get an additional amulet for +5 natural AC, but that doesn't help that much here. You can also get another +2 from upgrading the bracers of armor to +10 for not all that much cash. So for 1 feat you can easily get to 57 AC. +2 when riding your spider. I would find a way to squeeze in either Power Attack (so you can get through big DRs) or Combat Expertise (an extra +25 AC, though you can't hit your enemy). In battle, try to take out the lower CR creatures. Unfortunately epic monsters are tough cookies. If you are fighting just a single one, try to distract it and avoid hits if you can. Your spellcasters are going to be very valuable here. Have them disable monsters with spells if they can. Honestly, you can expect to fight an Infernal based on the campaign idea, and it is going to be very tough. Your character definitely won't be able to beat one (if it is played even half decently). A party with you should hopefully stand a chance. Your character will however kick butt at killing lower CRs (like 20 to 22). --Aarnott 09:27, 22 December 2007 (MST)
Done (my wis bonus is +4, not +5). Thanks for your help. --Sam Kay 09:50, 22 December 2007 (MST)
Hrm... Well I suppose in that case, you could get an extra 2 AC if a spellcaster cast Owl's wisdom on you each day (1 hour per level -- at 30 that is more than a day). I keep thinking about how to kill the Infernal and I keep coming back to death by massive damage. I'll let you know if I can figure a good way to do that... --Aarnott 20:00, 22 December 2007 (MST)
If you can find a way to prevent it from moving long enough for me to kill it, I could use Ride-By-Attack to prevent it from reaching me. I'd have to watch for prepaired actions though, and I know the DM would think of it... I doubt web would work. So if we can stop movement and prepared actions, I could kill it with lots of charges and ride by attack. I think the DM may also try to target the spider more than me with melee. --Sam Kay 10:37, 23 December 2007 (MST)
An extended SRD:Irresistible Dance is really powerful, but it won't even do the trick (mind affecting). And I was wrong about death by massive damage... It is immune. Your party can use SRD:Maze to stall it. SRD:Imprisonment technically won't kill it, but you will never have to deal with it again. It will go under the earth and thanks to the natural non-detection spell it has, it won't be found. Only problem is, you don't get the stuff it carries. Wail of the banshee is a save or die (area of effect)... That is useful at least. Its fortitude is +31 though, so your spellcaster will need a mighty high DC to get that off well (10 + 9 + int + 3 epic focus = 22 + int). He'd need a +20 int mod (50 int!) to have a 50% chance. It looks like save or die is out of the question. So it will be up to you somehow most likely, and you are going to have a hell of a time hitting it. Greater heroism will give you a +4... --Aarnott 20:37, 23 December 2007 (MST)
Using Ride-By-Attack would force it to be only able to use one attack per turn, its +58 claw (4D6+16). I could survive that for a bit. An avereage hit from my lance on the charge deals 49 damage to a devil. And my spider deals 36+poison on averadge to a devil or demon with one attack. --Sam Kay 06:52, 24 December 2007 (MST)
I will be away on boxing day as I am visiting relatives. --Sam Kay 07:14, 25 December 2007 (MST)
I am back. --Sam Kay 06:16, 27 December 2007 (MST)
Have you any further ideas? --Sam Kay 09:21, 3 January 2008 (MST)
I think the character will be ok now. Unfortunately, fighter types really get hosed at higher levels. Technically you wouldn't lose much if you ditched two of the paladin levels for something -- but the flavor of that is up to you. You could lose them for Fighter 2 and get 2 bonus feats. Or Psychic Warrior 2 for 2 bonus psionic feats and a few powers. Both of those have the exp penalty though (if your DM cares). You can also get a PrC for 2 levels... Not sure what to go with there though. --Aarnott 09:38, 3 January 2008 (MST)
What fighter bonus feats would you suggest? --Sam Kay 11:28, 4 January 2008 (MST)
Well you can use feats you picked as non-bonus and designate them as bonus feats... So basically you can pick any feats you want (non-epic). I'm honestly not sure what would be good to pick though... Maybe reckless offense so that you can hit things with high ACs? --Aarnott 11:53, 4 January 2008 (MST)
How do you think I should play the character? --Sam Kay 09:22, 10 January 2008 (MST)

--(Reverted back to normal indenting)

It is really up to you how you want to play your character. As a good Drow, I think there are a lot of roleplaying possibilities. You should think about why your character would be going to the nine hells to kill devils. That would be a great start. As a paladin, there is an obvious divine connection! Play with that too. Try to adhere to the tenets of being a Spider Rider. Also as a Drow (thus very old) make sure to go into situations with good consideration of consequences. Age would lead to that sort of rationality. --Aarnott 13:51, 10 January 2008 (MST)

I meant in combat, but thanks for the advice, I hadn't considered those things. I suppose I should have worded it better. Sorry. What tactics should I employ in combat? We have a druid skilled in archery, a rogue and a wu-jen good with attack spells in the party. --Sam Kay 11:48, 11 January 2008 (MST)
Well you have expressed interest in ride by attack, so make sure to use that. Try to assist your rogue in getting flanks (full attack sneak attacks!) and stop devils from eating your wizard. The druid will be good support, and you can help soften enemies by sniping them as they charge forwards. Make use of your Spider Jump for mobility. You can kill a devil that is threatening the wizard and then set up a flank for the rogue for example. Positioning will be big for your character. Your spider will definitely help you gain an edge in melee against unmounted foes, just make sure to keep it safe. Get a SRD:Strand of Prayer Beads with the karma bead, and cast SRD:Shield Other at the start of each adventure, maybe even as both your spell slots so you can use it at night (the prayer beads gives an extra 4 hours to the duration). Use share spell with it. Then all damage both you and the spider take is halved and the other member takes the other half. It will take twice as long for you or your spider to die (ignoring AoE attacks), which is spiffy. --Aarnott 16:04, 11 January 2008 (MST)
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