Talk:Saves Man (3.5e Optimized Character Build)
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First of all, no Paladin? That boosts saves more than anything else would.
Secondly, this build has decent saves but...it can't really do anything. That's a huge problem. Surgo 09:58, 29 March 2009 (MDT)
This in no way warrants deletion.21:30, 2 September 2009 (MDT)
Really, the best build for a saves based character with full BAB is a Ranger. You need a 14 base Wisdom to cast your spells, and it will only go up with magic items. You also get Endurance for free so you can throw Steadfast Determination on at some point. Dwarf straight Ranger, due to +2 saves vs all spells and the +2 Con has pretty good saves and Evasion.
A straight Duskblade with Insightful Reflexes is also brutal for straight saves, as they are Intelligence based Casters, so that is the stat they are ramping up and Reflex is their bad save.
Another really powerful Save build is Hexblade/Rogue/Warblade with Force of Personality. Hexblade gets you Mettle with 3 levels and at least 2 levels of Rogue gives you Evasion. Add on top of it Diamond Mind maneuvers from Warblade to make your saves Concentration checks is the icing on the cake. Then go into a Prestige class of choice, but Blackguard is a great choice.
2 Paladin/18 Sorc/Warmage with Force of Personality is also brutal for raw saves, but has no class features like Evasion and Mettle and a lack of BAB. With a 18 starting Charisma (which is the stat they are pumping), +6 Chr item, and just a +1 Charisma Tome or a Wish/Miracle is 18 Fort/16 Reflex/31 Will. That is not counting /any/ Con or Dex modifiers, spells, or a resistance item, much less feats (besides FoP).
Alaris: Look man, you need to make use of some class features, and classes that have 2 good saves. Now, if you're going for JUST saves and attack bonuses, then I'd say devote all of your feats to anything that gives bonuses to your saves. You'll find a lot in the Forgotten Realms books. Here, look below:
Monk: Class has 3 good saves, and is almost required if you want to do a save-build right. Has decent base-attack bonus. It also gives you quite a few nice Monk abilities. Provides Wisdom Bonus to AC, unnamed. Very worth taking.
Paladin: While it has only 1 good save, it has a special ability that it gains at level 2. "Divine Grace: Add your Charisma bonus to all of your saves." This is a BIG Help. Make sure you have at least a +3 Charisma Modifier to make this worth it, otherwise the class is probably not worth taking.
Luck of Heroes: A feat that gives you a +1 Luck bonus to all of your saves, and a +1 Luck bonus to your AC. A feat requirement for this build here. Not found in the PHB, but should be allowed.
On a side note, before I continue, a build with 5 classes like that doesn't work at all. Especially the way you did it, no offence. Classes like Rogue and Bard are bad choices, as they each have 1 good save, and crappy base attack bonuses. Unless you can find a ton of Fighter Feats that give you saves, drop the fighter class altogether. It's completely worthless for your build.
- Bard has two good saves (will and reflex), but the point probably still stands.
Ranger: A class with a D8 hit die, Fighter's base attack, AND two good saves. (Fortitude and Reflex). This, you can't beat. Replace Fighter with this, hands down. It also gives you some unique special abilities and bonus feats (And, if you hit 4th level, and have a Wisdom of 12 or higher, spells).
Druid: While it has the Base Attack Bonus of a Cleric (Average), it has 2 good saves, and some unique special abilities and spells. Take this over Fighter, and Bard. And, if you're taking Monk, you're already going to have a good Wisdom, so you'll get spells as well.
IBHK: Monk is a must. first level gives +2 to all saves and evasion, second level gives +3 and bonus to will saves.
Cleric: Another good Class as far as Saves goes. It has 2 good Saves (Will and Fortitude). Base Attack Bonus is Cleric (Average). It gains spells from Wisdom, so it'd be good for combining with Monk and Druid, and derives Turn Attempts from Charisma, so it's also good with Paladin.
On another note, there is only one CORE (PHB1) class that provides Full Base Attack and Two Good Saves, and that's Ranger. It will be integral to your build, if you're using PHB1 only. Below, I'll outline PHB2 classes, and which ones will help you the most:
Dragon Shaman: Has Cleric's Base Attack Bonus, and two good saves (Fortitude and Will). It comes up with some nifty abilities, which are worth it. This will help your variety, since, if you want obscene saves, you're pretty much required to multiclass.
Duskblade: Ah, the most broken class in the game, and the class you will find the MOST use in. It is exactly like the Ranger in that, it has Full Base Attack Progression, and 2 good saves (Fortitude and Will). This is basically a Fighter-Mage type class, and is based on Intelligence. You'll need that to cast its spells.
So far, that's all I know. I'll look into the Forgotten Realms books and see if I can't find more save-boosting spells (As I know there are some). Good Luck with your build.
Something else you might wanna consider is the feat steadfast determination from PHBII. only prerequisite is endurance, and it lets you use your constitution modifier instead of your wisdom mod for will saves, and you don't automatically fail fort saves on a nat 1.
Thanks.. i'm glad you helped me :) i can see it's so much better the way you said
alarias I agree with the above. One of the best save builds i have seen was a Monk/ranger/paladin. Monk has 3 good saves and adds wisdom to AC. Ranger has good fort and reflex with full base attack bonus. Paladin only has a good fort save but at 2nd level you can add you cha to all your saves! your Will is still going to be your low save but will have your wisdom which is high and your cha added to it so is still pretty good. so at 12th lvl (5Rng/5Mnk/2Pal) your Base saves are looking at 11 fort 8 Ref and 5 Will with no feats or magic items and you still add attributes and Cha to all of them. not only are yours saves doing good but that build would also have a BAB of 9, not quite full but still pretty close.
lvl 12 mnk 0 2/2/2 mnk 1 1/1/1 pal 1 2/0/0 pal 1 1/0/0 rng 1 0/2/2 rng 1 0/1/1 mnk 1 0/0/0 mnk 1 1/1/1 war 1 2/0/0 war 1 1/0/0 exp 0 0/2/2 exp 1 0/1/1 tot 10 10/10/10 this gives you four feats from the expert and warrior (generic classes from the Unearthed Arcana) the feats can be used to pick up things like sneak att, trapfinding, etc. and look, all the tens... not full BAB but closer than the last edit, and you could do your idea, with the 4 lvl 4 classes
The above is also a totally illegal build, as Monk and Paladin do not allow you to multi-class back in without Prestige Class options (that wouldn't get around Ranger/Warblade anyways), so DM approval is required, even if you ditch the Favored Class rules.
Favored Soul: Also has full saves, might want to check that out