Talk:Baron of the Grave (3.5e Prestige Class)

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Question regarding divine spell prereq[edit]

Is it necessary to say they need to cast 2nd level divine spells? Since there are three 3rd level spells as prereqs, aren't those sufficient enough? --Aarnott 16:06, 18 March 2009 (MDT)

Thats actually a good point, and now that I think about it, I don't even know why I have that up there. → Rith (talk) 16:27, 18 March 2009 (MDT)


Power - 5/5 I give this rating for its balance and power. It is level appropriate and the abilities are uniquely awesome. -Valentine the Rogue 02:28, 11 April 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 The worsing is understandable and contains unremarkable conventional errors, if any. The grammar is fine and no great problems are apparent. -Valentine the Rogue 02:28, 11 April 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 Everything is linked, everything is formatted, everything is coded properly, and everything makes sense. It's very well done. -Valentine the Rogue 02:28, 11 April 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 The flavor of this class is excellent. The example NPC is comprehensive, and the abilities are flavorful. The idea, while the idea of a necromancer is common, is unique in the accomplishment. -Valentine the Rogue 02:28, 11 April 2009 (MDT)

Overall, this class is amazingly flavorful and exceptionally formatted. I'd like to nominate is for Featured Article. -Valentine the Rogue 02:28, 11 April 2009 (MDT)

Featured Article Nomination[edit]

No mark.svg.png — This article did not become a featured article. --Green Dragon 20:58, 24 April 2011 (MDT)
Please feel free to re-nominate it once it meets the FA criteria and when all the major issues brought up in this nomination have been dealt with.

I'd like to nominate this article for Featured Article status, because it is a quality contribution and a prime example of the sort of content I and I'm sure others like to see on this wiki. It is also has such great flavor, and unique abilities not seen elsewhere. -Valentine the Rogue 02:46, 11 April 2009 (MDT)

Support — Of course I support the article's nomination, I nominated it. For my reasons, see above. -Valentine the Rogue 02:46, 11 April 2009 (MDT)

Comment — The wording is a bit awkward on Necrosis, Thick Blood, and Stygian Anatomy. It would be a hell of a lot more simple to just give them the undead subtype. Also, I'd feel a whole lot better about vile incarnate if it simply added the Class levels of baron of the grave to the aura str rather than adding a flat 10, it gives it epic scalability, and doesn't make an 10th level caster look like a 15th level caster(and it would suck to be stunned by a character of that level with detect evil). Other than that, yea, this is a great article. --Ganre 05:39, 15 April 2009 (MDT)

Well, first off, Undead is a creature type, not a subtype, but I understand what you're asking, "Why not just make them undead and be done with it?" My answer to that is, because then they wouldn't be barons of the grave, "A baron of the grave is someone who, while still being alive, fills their body with negative energy and ties their body with the forces of undeath." You see, a baron is someone who holds onto their humanity, even if by just a thread, and yet drags themselves into the deeper recesses of negative energies, flooding their bodies with them. Vile incarnate give them a flat 10 because, they are meant to be depraved, terrifying, unbelievably evil individuals, (hence the term "vile incarnate") the most vibrant way of stating this is by giving them a large boost to their "evil aura" if the have one. Though, on the note of necrosis, thick blood, and stygian anatomy, I don't see what you find difficult to understand about them, perhaps if you could elaborate? Also, thanks for the comment and the compliment. → Rith (talk) 10:33, 15 April 2009 (MDT)
Make it treated as if it were the undead type for any beneficial effect (use a similar wording as powerful build from the half giant). Done and done :). --Aarnott 11:04, 15 April 2009 (MDT)
Well thats the thing, they don't gain all of the traits of an undead due to one class feature, they steadily progress and become more like the undead as they go. I personally think the class features are pretty black and white as they are now, and can't see how it is difficult to understand, and so, am asking how it is viewed as such. → Rith (talk) 15:23, 15 April 2009 (MDT)

Comment — Do you know the images copyright information? --Green Dragon 03:49, 24 April 2009 (MDT)

Erm, no, is there something wrong with me using it? → Rith (talk) 11:41, 24 April 2009 (MDT)
I'm pretty certain it is from Deviant Art, which does not allow their work to be used elsewhere. I have removed it as such. This article needs an image, and has been removed as a featured article nominee as such. --Green Dragon 20:58, 24 April 2011 (MDT)

Blarg! Comments.[edit]

I am a tech-writer at my day job, so don't take it too harshly when I quibble over a word. The overall impression I got when reading this is that you are being too wordy. Conciseness is a wonderful thing: it allows you to be exact and it allows your reader to spend less time reading what you wrote. The class is, however, very well written; don't sacrifice the quality just to reduce the page length.

If you had put "spelling and grammar is fine" in the editing section... Well, I wouldn't have wrote most of this. It's a good class though and I want to help you get everything to the best possible quality.

I just made a list of comments as I read through the class.

  • Undead Refinement -- It does two different things, use two paragraphs.
  • Undead Refinement -- It would be nice if they could refocus the bonus so they aren't forced to replace undead when they level. You can also get rid of the sentence that qualifies re-reanimated undead as new undead.
  • Undead Refinement -- Make it a profane bonus. They both basically stack with anything and profane makes more sense.
  • Necrosis -- Don't use "Additionally" to start one sentence, then "In addition to these effects" to start the next. Maybe make the favored enemy thing in a new paragraph since it is a penalty not a bonus.
  • Command Undead -- "and the baron eventually sees this clearly" is awkward. I would get rid of "eventually".
  • Command Undead -- "with a caster level equal to their own caster level" should be "his".
  • Ghoul Touch -- "letting him impart a portion of these forces into another's body" should be "those" and "another person's" respectively.
  • Ghoul Touch -- "with a caster level equal to their own caster level" should be "his".
  • Vile Incarnate -- "more and more saturated with evil powers and energies" would probably be better as just "more".
  • Vile Incarnate -- "where the force of undeath actually seem to leak from his very pores": "force" (singular) doesn't agree with "seem".
  • Vile Incarnate -- "a baron of the grave gains an evil aura equal to that of a cleric of an evil deity of 10th level": how about "a baron of the grave gains an evil aura as if he were a 10th level cleric of an evil deity" instead? I'm not even sure the "evil deity" part is necessary because it is an evil aura.
  • Vile Incarnate -- "If the baron already projected" is past tense. Use "projects".
  • Vile Incarnate -- "then they are considered 10 levels higher": "they" = "he".
  • Vile Incarnate -- Make a new paragraph for the second ability.
  • Create Undead -- The first sentence needs a semi-colon, not a comma (comma splice).
  • Create Undead -- "their" = "his".
  • Slay Living -- Twice per day :).
  • Slay Living -- "their" = "his".
  • Thick Blood -- remove the second comma in the first sentence.
  • Thick Blood -- "As a baron of the grave slowly fill": "fill" = "fills".
  • Control Undead -- Once per day.
  • Control Undead -- "their" = "his".
  • Create Greater Undead -- get rid of the comma in the first sentence.
  • Create Greater Undead -- Once per day.
  • Create Greater Undead -- "their" = "his".
  • Stygian Anatomy -- "Eventually a baron of the graves" = "A baron of the grave's".
  • Stygian Anatomy -- The first sentence should be shortened (incorrect comma usage).
  • Stygian Anatomy -- Actually, just do a full-round grammar checkup on this one.
  • Stygian Anatomy -- Why are you including epic stuffs here?

Yeah. I've got nothing for balance. It looks good to me. --Aarnott 16:14, 15 April 2009 (MDT)

Heh heh, well, I would've been fine with a few minor edits on grammar and whatnot, that statement is actually intended to be more for people adding on new class features and stuff, grammar and spelling are fine to edit. As for the laundry list you've got here, well, I'll try and start implementing them. Thanks for the interest in the class by the way. → Rith (talk) 18:32, 15 April 2009 (MDT)


Fancy that. I hadn't rated this one yet.

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it remains balanced with other undead leader PrCs (dread necromancer for example). My only issue with it is vile incarnate because it seems like it should just be a level 1 ability that gives an aura equal to the class level. I know they are different effects, but it just seems clunky the way it is now. It also doesn't scale nicely into epic levels. I would think they get more evil at epic levels. --Aarnott 12:28, 29 April 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is well worded and easy to understand. Anything that is wrong is really minor and doesn't effect the read much. --Aarnott 12:28, 29 April 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it follows the preload perfectly and has a good use of linking. --Aarnott 12:28, 29 April 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this class fills a good role as an undead minion master that takes a unique spin compared to existing options. --Aarnott 12:28, 29 April 2009 (MDT)


I unleashed this little vile gem as a Big Bad for a plot cycle in preference to the True Necromancer and that abomination the Dread Necromancer, and it came off beautifully, down to actually convincing a Chaotic Neutral-leaning-toward-Good(then anyway) PC that being transformed into a Necropolitan was in her best interests. As a little treat (and to firmly explain the effect of the claws granted by Stygian Anatomy) I used the "vile" damage rules from Book of Vile Darkness, which is typically inflicted by creatures with the Corrupted template. The flavor text for the vile effect seasoned up the effects of being swatted by the Baron nicely. Atypicaloracle 18:08, 11 September 2010 (MDT)

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