Talk:Prestidigitator (3.5e Prestige Class)

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Balanced?[edit]

As a general rule, and especially in this case, it is bad to give a 5 level long PrC 5 feats, and tons of very good abilities. I would recommend making this PrC 10 levels long, and adding no more benefits to make it more balanced. Your ideas? --Green Dragon 10:22, 23 November 2006 (MST)

The loss of one level of spellcasting was supposed to help balance out the additions of the abilities. I mean Parlour Tricks, Cantrip Mastery, Silent Prestidigitation, Still Prestidigitation, and Improved Prestidigitation are not what you could call really good abilities. Amusing and fun for a player that likes to fool around with the spellcaster classes, but not really powerful. So this leaves the Bonus magic related feat, Master Prestidigitator, and Sublime Prestidigitator as the only really 'powerful' things in the class. Basically you lose a level of spellcasting to get some minor improvements to the spells you already know. I think 10 levels would make this PRC very undesirable. --Calidore Chase 07:51, 29 November 2006 (MST)
I have to disagree, I think this is overpowered. For example at level 2 he gets "Bonus Feat, Silent and Still Prestidigitation", three abilities that are all good. All the abilities this PrC gets are good, and I don't think it is acceptable to have this a 5-level PrC. Also, you messed up on your weak saves. Anyway, my idea of a relatively balanced version of this PrC follows. Please tell me what you think, I hope you like it. --Green Dragon 17:03, 29 November 2006 (MST)

Table: The Prestidigitator
Hit Die: d4

Level Base Attack
Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save
Special Spells per Day/Spells Known
1 +0 0 0 2 Parlour Tricks -
2 +1 0 0 3 Cantrip Mastery +1 levels of Existing Class
3 +1 1 1 3 Bonus Feat +1 levels of Existing Class
4 +2 1 1 4 Silent Prestidigitation +1 levels of Existing Class
5 +2 1 1 4 Still Prestidigitation +1 levels of Existing Class
6 +3 2 2 5 Improved Prestidigitation +1 levels of Existing Class
7 +3 2 2 5   +1 levels of Existing Class
8 +4 2 2 6 Master Prestidigitator +1 levels of Existing Class
9 +4 3 3 6   +1 levels of Existing Class
10 +5 3 3 7 Sublime Prestidigitator +1 levels of Existing Class

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)
Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Doh, Can't believe I messed up the saves. Thanks for fixing that. 10 level for the PRC.... It just seems to lack in abilities compared to some of the other PRC's out there. I guess since you can start it at such a low level it kinda balances that out as it would become your main track for the arcane caster. I'll make the change.
Looks better. --Green Dragon 16:58, 30 November 2006 (MST)

“The loss of one level of spellcasting was supposed to help balance out the additions of the abilities. “. I suppose that this was necessary when this class had 5 levels but know it has 10 levels I would add “+1 levels of Existing Class” for the first level. --Onra77 20:30, 6 July 2011 (GMT)

The class gets a range of abilities that increase the power and efficacy of the spells they already learn... The loss of the 1st level is demonstrative of the amount of extra time and effort put in to learning how to start altering and modifying the spells... course that being said, I do not think that allowing the class to gain spells at 1st level would severely, heck even particularly mildly, alter the power and balance of this class. --Calidore Chase 02:51, 18 December 2011 (MST)

User Prestige Classes with Description[edit]

This PrC needs to be added to DnD Prestige Classes. Thanks. --Green Dragon 10:22, 23 November 2006 (MST)

Added --Calidore Chase 07:46, 29 November 2006 (MST)
I changed the wording a bit, do you like it more? --Green Dragon 17:04, 29 November 2006 (MST)
Yes, the one I had put in was a quick, on-the-fly entry. Thank you. --Calidore Chase 22:35, 29 November 2006 (MST)
No problem, except that I did a bad job with the wording... It did not make sense, and it still does not. However, you just helped make it better, and I will quickly finish fixing it. Is it better now? --Green Dragon 22:54, 29 November 2006 (MST)

Balance - 9/10[edit]

On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is abysmal, 5 is adequate, and 10 is damned inspired and well implemented, I rate this entry: 9. The criticism behind this class helped to improve it. The class is well written and well presented. (Excuse me, this class is a POSTER CHILD for well written and well presented.) The class is well focused to its purpose. The class provides good RP value and flavor. The class is not unreasonably better than another casting class. I look forward to seeing any playtesting commentary. --Dmilewski 08:55, 8 December 2006 (MST)

Any suggestions on how to get this to a ten? Not that I'm a perfectionist or anything... --Calidore Chase 07:50, 15 December 2006 (MST)
I MoI'ed (Messaged of Interested) Dmilewski and Sledged, we can see what they have to say... --Green Dragon 02:12, 16 December 2006 (MST)
I agree with dmilewski that this class should get a 9/10 (for the reasons mentioned above). This class does not warrant a ten, since basically all it does is give the prestidigitator feats slightly faster than they could be gotten any other way. The feats are wonderful (and I love them), but it has no other significant "wow" type abilities besides these feats. Thus, while it is a well-balanced, useful, and imaginative class, it lacks the true gut-level creative innovation necessary for a ten. (To clarify, I would give the feats 10s; they are extraordinary for the purpose they fulfill, and they branch out in great new directions. The class, however, is basically only a means to the feats, and so cannot be as inherently spectacular as the feats are). Does this help clear up your confusion? (Also, this is just my opinion. Others very well might disagree.) --EldritchNumen 21:09, 16 December 2006 (MST)
Sorry for the long wait. THank you for the explanation, it helped significantly. UNfortunately I can't think of anything to add in that would make it a ten, mores the pity. I guess I'll just have to settle for a nine. :) --Calidore Chase 15:51, 21 July 2007 (MDT)
I like this class, and hope it will work well for my bard. (He's on his way to sublime chord, and I need every cool caster trick I can get.) If you would make the class a little more bard-friendly, I would appreciate it. Bards use cantrips more than any other class, so I think you owe it to them. If you think it would mess up the Prestidigitator, though, you can leave it alone. Incidentally, my Dashing Swordsman is the 2nd 10/10 to exist on the Wiki. If it inspires you at all, good. Your Prestidigitator is a beautiful class, and I hope it reaches its peak soon. --Sir Milo Teabag 19:54, 27 January 2008 (MST)

Rating[edit]

Power - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because The features, though cool, have little prcatical application and are nothing compared to that given by certain other Prestige Classes. --Sir Milo Teabag 17:01, 22 March 2008 (MDT)

This rating has been nullified since this class has been changed since it was given. Please feel free to re-rate this class. --Green Dragon 12:43, 17 April 2008 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the concepts of the prestige class are given with perfect clarity. --Sir Milo Teabag 17:01, 22 March 2008 (MDT)

This rating has been nullified since this class has been changed since it was given. Please feel free to re-rate this class. --Green Dragon 12:43, 17 April 2008 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it gives us a caster who can do fantastic and interesting things with only minimal effort. --Sir Milo Teabag 17:01, 22 March 2008 (MDT)

This rating has been nullified since this class has been changed since it was given. Please feel free to re-rate this class. --Green Dragon 12:43, 17 April 2008 (MDT)

New Rating[edit]

I just went through and did a few updates to this class. Bear in mind that I have not finished the NPC for the encounter listed at the bottom. Please let me know what ya'all think.--Calidore Chase 07:28, 17 April 2008 (MDT)

Formatting still is not right, but other than that it is looking close to FA status. --Green Dragon 12:50, 17 April 2008 (MDT)
What is wrong with the formatting? --Calidore Chase 13:04, 17 April 2008 (MDT)
The first quote does not use Template:Quote, the class features are not linked to from the table, more links to the SRD could be present, and no image is present. Hope this helps! --Green Dragon 14:22, 17 April 2008 (MDT)
Fixed most of it I think. Been looking for a good picture for quite some time. No luck though. --Calidore Chase 21:41, 17 April 2008 (MDT)
To have classes rerated is a difficult thing. My own prestige class, the Dashing Swordsman, has been under the knife for quite some time by now. --Sir Milo Teabag 19:26, 29 April 2008 (MDT)
I need to get a hold of my artist friend and beg him to do a quick sketch for me. Maybe then I could get a rating. --Calidore Chase 19:45, 29 April 2008 (MDT)
With a quick glance I noticed that this class gives a lot of feats over it's levels, a total of 5 feats over 10 levels. That's on par with the fighter. Also, the first quote needs a src and orig parameter present. --Green Dragon 00:29, 5 May 2008 (MDT)
Nevermind. The feats are actually very class-specific and I feel they do not overpower it. The power on this looks very good. --Green Dragon 00:01, 6 May 2008 (MDT)


Newer Rating[edit]

Anyone willing to give this one a go? Has received pretty high marks in the past. --Calidore Chase 17:51, 28 November 2009 (MST)

Rating[edit]

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is doesn't overpower nor underpower a wizard dispite the fact it can be taken at very low levels.--Milo High-Hill 04:17, 28 February 2011 (MST)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it was simple, to the point, and made perfect sense. --Milo High-Hill 04:17, 28 February 2011 (MST)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it was fit the pre-load perfectly.--Milo High-Hill 04:17, 28 February 2011 (MST)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because its a class based around a single cantrip.--Milo High-Hill 04:17, 28 February 2011 (MST)

One thing though. I think that the prerequiste should be "Able to cast Prestidigitation" instead of "able to cast arcane magic". This is because I plan to use this prestige class, but there's an Arcane Caster class that doesn't learn prestidigitation. Other than that "Perfect".--04:17, 28 February 2011 (MST)

Thank you! --Calidore Chase (talk) 11:22, 14 June 2012 (MDT)

Rating[edit]

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this prestige class is neither overpowered or useless. It empowers a low level spells and specialize a well know and used spell. --ElvenKingSlave · Weapons Summoner · Talk 02:34, 19 December 2011 (MST)

Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because I am not a master grammar so I never give 5, but the text is understandable and the intentions of the class are clearly brought forth. --ElvenKingSlave · Weapons Summoner · Talk 02:34, 19 December 2011 (MST)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because as fare as I can see it uses all the correct templates and formatting used on D&Dwiki. --ElvenKingSlave · Weapons Summoner · Talk 02:34, 19 December 2011 (MST)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it has a wonderful flavor. One of the most used low level spells (in my opinion) is a nice idea for a prestige class. I would have made the spell an at will power but this is much more in line with standard lore and mechanics. --ElvenKingSlave · Weapons Summoner · Talk 02:34, 19 December 2011 (MST)

Thank you! --Calidore Chase (talk) 11:21, 14 June 2012 (MDT)


Featured Article Nomination[edit]

I'm nominating my article for the featured article as I consider it to be a fine piece of work and a tribute to what collaboration within the wiki community can achieve. --Calidore Chase (talk) 03:07, 30 May 2013 (MDT)

  • Comment — This needs an image. --Green Dragon (talk) 18:48, 26 June 2013 (MDT)
Yeah.... I can't draw... or even write clearly without computer assistance. Not disabled just challenged in the artistic department... anyone out there care to take a stab at creating a picture for this? --Calidore Chase (talk) 06:30, 28 June 2013 (MDT)
I will keep looking to see if something fits. --Green Dragon (talk) 02:58, 2 November 2013 (MDT)
  • Comment — Becoming a Prestidigitator needs an introduction paragraph. I imagine that the benefit to this class is its possibility to make its magic "unnoticable" and thus useable in many contexts where it would not be allowed, or be penalized for it (e.g. trying to cast a buffing spell before to the party before a local important figure would alert their casters that something is wrong, but not here necessarily). Something along these lines would be good to include here. The epic progression is missing. The Campaign Information should have more detailed paragraphs. Notably, how this class uses its abilities of a more "subtle" magic (among other things) to make the gameplay that much more intriguing and powerful. Also, the NPC is not complete. --Green Dragon (talk) 02:58, 2 November 2013 (MDT)
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