User talk:Calidore Chase
From D&D Wiki
 Welcome to D&D Wiki
Hello Calidore Chase, and welcome to D&D Wiki! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like D&D Wiki and decide to stay. I am the owner of the site, and if you have a question feel free to ask me, however when contacting anyone on D&D Wiki through talk pages please sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Also, if you want to help D&D Wiki but just don't know how drop me a note and I'll see what I can do. However, when dropping me a note please tell me how much time you would like to spend working and how well you know the Wiki Format. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a D&D Wikian! If you need help ask me on my talk page, or just right here. Again, welcome! --Green Dragon 23:05, 3 December 2006 (MST)
- Glad to be here, I've been looking for an outlet for my creations for a while; I hope everyone finds them to be balanced, fun, and useful. -Calidore Chase
- I am glad this site suits your needs. Anyway, as a side comment, when you post something on a discussion simply put a --~~~~ after what you wrote and it will correctly sign your name. Thanks. --Green Dragon 12:30, 4 November 2006 (MST)
Hey, saw you doing the lightening/rouge things. Do you have any instant messengers? --Xenophon
- I use MSN Messenger. You? --Calidore Chase 12:33, 8 November 2006 (MST)
- email@example.com is my username on there. It's a dead e-mail address so don't use it. --Xenophon 12:55, 8 November 2006 (MST)
- So what do you want to use for messenger? --Calidore Chase 13:21, 8 November 2006 (MST)
- Faster than this --Xenophon 13:33, 8 November 2006 (MST)
- Have you tried it yet? --Green Dragon 13:23, 12 November 2006 (MST)
- Not yet, course I can just talk to Xenophon at work tomorrow. --Calidore Chase 14:48, 12 November 2006 (MST)
- I see, well it is always available if you would like to try it. --Green Dragon 18:36, 12 November 2006 (MST)
 Editing Thanks
- Not a prob, always happy to help --Calidore Chase 09:51, 17 December 2010 (MST)
 Rating the PrC's
D&D Wiki has quite a bit of Prestige Classes, with only two having been rated on D&D Wiki's rating scale. So, on a small mission to try to get ratings of PrC's done, I would like you to help. All you would have to do is go to DnD Classes then to any PrC page. Click on the PrC you would like to rate; then rate its balance by clicking on the "here" in the Please, help D&D Wiki by rating the balance of this item here. I hope you can take the time to help D&D Wiki become a useful tool for every visitor that comes here; and thanks in advance. --Green Dragon 22:29, 29 November 2006 (MST)
- Sure, go ahead and nominate me.... --Calidore Chase 07:18, 6 December 2006 (MST)
- Congratulations, you are now an sysop (admin). I hope you like the privileges, and decide to keep contributing a lot! --Green Dragon 22:01, 13 December 2006 (MST)
- I feel bad I got sysop and then had to disappear for so long. Will try to work in some time for this wiki whenever I can. --Calidore Chase 15:46, 21 July 2007 (MDT)
- Glad to hear it :). I was worried that as soon as you got adminship you left for good... Glad to hear that that is not the case. --Green Dragon 01:05, 5 August 2007 (MDT)
Congrats on the baby-to-be. Mine first showed up on Feb 26. Mine is six months old now, and quite the handful. Babies are a team sport! My iPod shuffle has kept me sane, and my wife's nano kept her sane. I've listened to many old radio shows via podcasts. Librivox provides fee audiobooks. All that baby is why I don't do so much on the wiki as before.
--Dmilewski 12:31, 8 September 2007 (MDT)
- You're also going to have a child? Congratulations in advance. --Green Dragon 16:20, 8 September 2007 (MDT)
- Yep, actually this is going to be my second. My first is 15 months old. Fun stuff! My baby is definitely part of the reason why I posted so little for quite a while. It's definitely a joy though. --Calidore Chase 02:38, 9 September 2007 (MDT)
- The Dmilewski syndrome... ah... (just kidding Dmilewski :P). --Green Dragon 20:43, 9 September 2007 (MDT)
Second baby was born on Feb 13th at 0805 in the am at a whopping 9 lb 8 oz and 21 inches long. His name is Darius Alexander. --Calidore Chase 19:18, 15 February 2008 (MST)
- Congratulations! --Green Dragon 22:52, 15 February 2008 (MST)
Third baby was born on 3 Sep 2010 at 0108 in the am at a slight 7 lb 8 oz and 20 3/4 inches long. his name is Isaac Matthew. --Calidore Chase 06:42, 3 September 2010 (MDT)
 Linking in SRD
FYI, when fixing or making links inside the SRD, please use links such as [[SRD:Link]]. We need to maintain disambiguity within the SRD. With the new version coming out, link-fights are bound to arise and I want to keep the SRD out of that. If you think that there is a redirect that the SRD should have, create a link in the SRD: namespace, then redirect it to the proper page, then lock the redirect. Thanks. --Dmilewski 07:23, 7 November 2007 (MST)
- Groovy, will keep that in mind. --Calidore Chase 08:16, 7 November 2007 (MST)
Happy Birthday (I am assuming from the change on your user-page...)! --Green Dragon 15:57, 10 December 2007 (MST)
- Thanks! And yes, my birthday was the fifth. --Calidore Chase 20:10, 10 December 2007 (MST)
- Happy birthday, again!! --Sabre070 04:24, 5 December 2008 (MST)
 Going Away
I might be gone for about 5 months. Not sure if I'll have internet access while I am away. Definitely not for the next month though. --Calidore Chase 13:52, 19 July 2008 (MDT)
- Where are you off to? Someplace exotic? --Aarnott 14:56, 19 July 2008 (MDT)
- Fort Polk first, then Fort Benning - somewhat less than exotic. --Calidore Chase 11:02, 20 July 2008 (MDT)
- Now that I am back from Fort Polk I can absolutely guarantee that is definitely less than exotic. In fact it may be the least exotic place I have ever been.--Calidore Chase 09:52, 21 August 2008 (MDT)
 Art Commission
I'd love to talk to you about doing a drawing. Please e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org. --Rowan 00:50, 25 October 2008 (MDT)
Sorry I've been gone for so long - I'm currently in a military school with very little access to the internet. As soon as I can get back on reliably I wil be go back to my role as an admin. --Calidore Chase 07:56, 8 February 2009 (MST)
- I forgive you! --TK-Squared 08:00, 8 February 2009 (MST)
I'd like to label you as an admin with the
[[Template:AdminBadge]] on your user page. If you have a reason you don't think you should have the badge or you don't think the badge is a good idea, please discuss it on the badge's discussion. -Valentine the Rogue 16:16, 11 April 2009 (MDT)
- I don't have a problem with that. --Calidore Chase 10:43, 12 April 2009 (MDT)
 No longer an Admin?
Am I no longer an admin? --Calidore Chase 12:50, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- Interesting. Not gonna read that long series of postings. Will I be an admin again soon? Rather like it here. --Calidore Chase 13:03, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- After you read that long series of postings, you will not like it here anymore. -Pun-Pun 16:10, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
 To Recap
This is probably the wrong place for this, but I only mean to help:
I'm not really sure why I'm doing this since it won't really impact anything, but given all of the accusations on both sides I thought this might help clear things up. I'm hardly a neutral third party, but I'm probably the closest thing to it, so here goes nothing.
I'm going to start way back, so maybe we can get an idea of the big picture. Feel free to offer your own opinions or clarify things where you think I might be incorrect; this is only meant to offer both sides a bit of perspective, at least that is my goal, as well as informing those who were inactive at the time (such as Calidore Chase).
April 16, 2009
Surgo, who maintains Tome content on the wiki (an oft source of conflict due to its innovative, and perhaps radical, ideas on 3.5e), becomes frustrated with the current rating system (due to the reasons outlined below) and how it degrades aspects of the Tome classes, and voices a complaint:
|“||Classes need to stop being rated down in formatting, flavor, whatever because they strip out the bottom parts of the preload ("X in the world" etc.). That crap was added in to books by Wizards halfway through the 3.5 life cycle to increase page count without increasing effort. That means if you look through the first half of the Complete series, they won't even have that crap! It really should be up to the author whether they include those bullshit redundant sections or not, and pages should not be rated down if they do not. It's possible to have good flavor without putting it in those retarded sections!||”|
|—Surgo, Talk:DnD Base Classes#Some Rating Nonsense Needs to Stop|
Questions are raised as to what specific aspects of the rating preload mean, which Green Dragon clarifies, although lingering questions and concerns persist, as shown below.
June 24-July 8, 2009:
|“||In the tavern, we were discussing the class rating system. It seems to be the general consensus that, as is, it simply doesn't work. A numerical system with categories doesn't do much in the way of giving a general appraisal of a class -- flavor, a 100% subjective measure, is considered equally with such absolutes as wording and formatting. In addition, a very large number of the ratings are given no explanation, miscategorized, or just make no sense. This could all be fixed if it was changed to a three-level non-numerical rating system (as proposed by Dragon Child): Needs Work, Usable, and Excellent. The crap ratings could be filtered out by requiring admin approval of all ratings -- an MoI to User:Admin could alert us and it wouldn't be very time-consuming to give a yea or nay. In the case of multiple ratings, we take the mathematical mode, erring towards Usable in case of a tie. This simplification has the added benefits of being smaller on the page and being usable on more than just classes -- finally, feats and equipment and other things could be rated.||”|
|—Daniel Draco, User_talk:Green_Dragon#Rating_System|
This idea is kicked about and modified, with the following notable thoughts from Green Dragon, where he makes his perspective somewhat clear. I say somewhat, because while he doesn't endorse this proposal, he never explicitly says no either.
|“||Sorry I was away on vacation for a bit. Personally I am of the opinion to remove the entire rating system from the classes and just treat them like all other homebrew material. Use the Meta Pages#Improving, Reviewing, and Removing Articles system and call it good. Why do we need to add a numerical or word based rating system for the classes when instead we can use a combination of a reviewing, explaining, and page based system? --Green Dragon 14:13, 7 July 2009 (MDT)||”|
|—Green Dragon, User_talk:Green_Dragon#Rating_System|
|“||I am of the opinion a numerical (or word) based rating system (as explained above) detriments articles more then it helps compared to a system where the unuseable articles are reviewed and helped in a article-based manner. --Green Dragon 15:06, 8 July 2009 (MDT)||”|
|—Green Dragon, User_talk:Green_Dragon#Rating_System|
This is where I think the conflict comes in, as expressed best, I think, in this quote from Aarnott:
|“||So effectively, Green Dragon, you are suggesting articles should either be considered bad or not bad?||”|
From my personal perspective, Green Dragon is not necessarily correct here because D&D Wiki is not a wiki in the same sense as Wikipedia is. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, a collection of facts. Facts, by their very nature, are not good or bad; they just are. On D&D Wiki however, we do not have "facts", we have original content contributed by our members (therefore making us very much NOT like Wikipedia -- see Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought).
To surmise, this is where we have conflict: Green Dragon seems to want to emulate a normal wiki, such as Wikipedia, which has articles that are either up to snuff or not, whereas the others want to distinguish articles which are deemed superior, so that they stick out from the rest.
This conflict is not immediate, but it is important to note that this is where the seeds of it are.
July 20, 2009
This is where I think the user base went wrong. This post from Dragon Child opens with "Here's an Official Proposal", and yet I (and perhaps others) expected something much more formal (like a Request for Adminship). I think this is another big source of conflict, because several users show up to endorse this proposal (and none oppose it) and Green Dragon comments on this same page section three times without either rejecting or supporting the proposal, which I can only assume implied tacit approval for those interested in the proposal:
|“|| Here's an Official Proposal.
A committe is formed known as the Ratings Committee, or RC for short. The RC is composed of 9 members, each of varied preferences and opinions, to form it. The RC members must each contribute to the RC once every month, or be replaced. The RC members gain the powers as follows
|—Dragon Child, User_talk:Green_Dragon#Rating_System|
Around the same time, (July 26, 2009), Green Dragon adds the NeedsBalance and Wording templates to Rith's Gravity Warrior (the 267th most popular article (by view count) on this site of over 16,000 articles (which include navigation pages, so in reality it's a lot higher), the 25th most popular base class by view count, and probably the most popular base class by rating count and overall approval, rivaled only perhaps by the deviant). This is notable not for it's specific significance, but because it adds to the growing rift between Green Dragon and members of the user base.
One could argue that given the backlash Green Dragon took for his actions, he was right in arguing that templates create interest in improving an article (perhaps moreso than ratings), given how many stepped forward to help Rith. That said, one could also argue this also was bad, because changes were made to the article that did not improve grammar, but instead changed Rith's wording entirely. These changes imply that what is on the page is Rith's work, whereas now, for better or for worse, not all of it is (not taking a shot at you Rith, I hope I've made that clear).
It can also be argued that, given how small these changes were in most cases, these templates were excessive, and such templates should be reserved for articles that a really in need of an overhaul.
late July-early August, 2009
Discussion on the proposed rating system dies down, with no direct opposition.
TK-Squared works on the requisite templates for this new rating system.
TK-Squared creates the now deleted RC:Nominations as the first step toward implementing the new system. Shortly afterward Green Dragon applies the delete template (with the reasoning: "No. We will use the reviewing template process. Were using logic and reasoning here." to this new article, prompting a backlash from Surgo.
Momentarily afterward, Green Dragon bans Surgo for one year, with "unacceptable username" as reasoning, as well as Sulacu and TK-Squared (the three to immediately protest his actions). Almost immediately afterward he unblocks these same users, only to re-ban them with the following justification: "Unacceptable username: Please email me if you are confused about this at all."
This is key for me. Surgo, Sulaco, and TK-Squared were all a bit abrasive in their responses, but did not necessarily do anything to merit an immediate ban, especially one that came without any prior justification (and to me, "unacceptable username" means nothing--from the outside looking in it looks bad--just saying, Green Dragon).
Aarnott then blocks Green Dragon for three days: (Intimidating behaviour/harassment: You are acting out of line right now. Perhaps you should clear your head and come back to this later... Otherwise, this site will lose a lot of its users.).
This is another key point. For the disenchanted members of the user base, this banning is simply a way of sending a message, since no one can truly ban Green Dragon from his own site. For Green Dragon it is obviously something much more serious, and he responds by blocking every admin other than himself.
Shortly afterward the site is taken down; the reasons for this are still unknown. I know that personally, I speculated that perhaps the site might never come back up given that all of the admins were removed (with seemingly dodgy reasons) and then the site came down. Given the new look (Google ads) the site sported when it came back up, I can now speculate that perhaps the down time was for the installation of these ads, although I cannot be sure.
Anyway, the site went down. We (as a user base) are still are not sure exactly why. While it was down, those blocked planned to create a new wiki, believing that they could no longer trust Green Dragon. They have gone ahead with these plans.
When the site came back on, Green Dragon offered his explanation for the banning: he needed to re-think the site hierarchy in light of the fact that he got banned from his own website, something which was unacceptable for him. This goes back to how you interpret Aarnott's action: was it just a message, or was it something more?
After that users are unblocked and attempts at explanation are made, but neither side appears satisfied with the other, and we are left where we are now.
So, like I said, hopefully that gives those who weren't here some idea of what happened without presenting too biased a view (although I admit such is impossible).
- I created the RC:x pages. These pages were for the purposes of the proposed system and were in no-way threatening to immediately overwrite the system already in place (or any other system that Green Dragon had in his head (which, by the way, we do not have access to due to the lack of mind reading abilities)). These pages were more examples and just to show how the new system would work. We had waited about 3 weeks for any sort of coherent reply from Green Dragon about whether or not this rating system would be acceptable.
- Out of courtesy, I've removed what else I said. --TK-Squared 17:06, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- So all this is about a disagreement on the rating system? Seems kinda petty. lets all just step back, take a breath, and continue adding in that content that I've enjoyed reading on those oh so brief moments that I do have access to the internet. --Calidore Chase 17:14, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- I'm not interested in staying on a wiki where I could be banned for voicing my disagreement with what the site owner has just done. --TK-Squared 17:16, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- While I completely understand your view on that point, I also understand why Green Dragon has reacted the way he has. This site is a major undertaking on his part and to even feel like he was being placed under attack was a bit of an insult. Course anyone who is willing to become an admin on here is likely to feel alot of ownership of the site. Heck, I barely ever get to come here anymore (as evidenced by my ignorance of what has been going on) and I still feel like this is MY site (even though I know it's no where near mine). I'm sure that this site is going to lose some users over this conflict and I really hate to see them go, much of the best content on this site is put up by people who have become admins. I still say everyone calm down and give the site a second chance. Even if he doesn't give back the admin rights to me I will still be staying on this site. --Calidore Chase 17:25, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- No-one attacked him. He made NO OBJECTIONS for three weeks about the Ratings Committee idea and... Out of the blue, banned three people over it. This is not a rational thing to do and not something an owner should do. We didn't even implement the system, I just added TWO pages. Is this really a reason to ban people? --TK-Squared 17:37, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- And Calidore, half the admin staff -is- leaving, along with nearly the entire active userbase. Everyone's already gone. They have already left and created their own wiki, that's how bad this got. Many of them, at least two of the mods, are actually trying to get their stuff deleted from this site because they already took it to the new place. I mean, if you look at the Tavern history, ever since the incident only IPs have been showing up randomly (at least until the historey stopped being recored a day or two ago). Of the people who are staying, I can probably count the known ones on one hand, everyone else is a relative unknown or an IP, or some admin who hardly ever even shows up. Greendragon has effectively stuck a knife into the heart of his own site. --TheWarforgedArtificer 17:42, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- Some of us still remain, and will still contribute. 22:51, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- "Green Dragon offered his explanation for the banning: he needed to re-think the site hierarchy in light of the fact that he got banned from his own website, something which was unacceptable for him." covers most of the banning issues. Anyway, about that argument, I clarified it should not just be a good/bad scale (unlike the Meta Pages#Improving, Reviewing, and Removing Articles I mean). My issues were never countered — for a working system they would need to be. The RC Committee was never discussed. Please think about things before one posts - intelligence is important. --Green Dragon 14:47, 17 August 2009 (MDT)
- And sometimes keeping good relations with those you work with is even more important, whether they're your peers, subordinates, or superiors. I don't really have a side here, but from where I'm looking, you're doing a great job of insulting the intelligence of people (whether it's true or not is irrelevant--there is a politeness and etiquette that we should afford each other as sentient beings IMO) that you might want to keep on the wiki (though it's too late IMO for most) and alienating them in general. --Ghostwheel 14:50, 17 August 2009 (MDT)
- I don't like stupid ideas or people (for the most part). RC patrol (whatever it is called) was one of the stupidest ideas ever implemented. If that was to ever pass D&D Wiki would be gone as it is now. Same goes for stupid things like thinking that another rating system is better (stupid people think about systems for their sake - then talk about them). --Green Dragon 15:04, 17 August 2009 (MDT)
- At this point, it's not about that. At all. Basic etiquette first of all demands that you don't insult other people or call them stupid because you don't like their work regardless of the quality of their material. Regardless of what people say, you should not make personal attacks against them; criticize their work if you must, but don't get personal. It just leads to bad feelings all around.
- Secondly, you say you don't like "stupid people"--deal with it. This is the Internet, not some single-player RPG that you can turn on and off. There's a wide variety of people, and this is a wiki. That means people of all stripes, colors, and ideologies post here. People who are smart, stupid, American, European, and Atlantean for all I know. If you don't like someone, don't talk to them. But calling them and their work stupid rather than constructively criticizing them just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. It might be too late, but I think an apology is in order, if only for the violating the guidelines that you say this wiki upholds.
- To tell the truth I was planning to stay. But if you can't even admit to the mistakes you make yourself (and I know we all make them, and it can be painful owning up to them) then I'm unsure if I do want to stay. --Ghostwheel 15:12, 17 August 2009 (MDT)
- Ah, but I did not call anyone stupid - I just created a group label of people called "stupid people". And I don't dislike "stupid people" I just dislike it when they, as a group, respond to something which requires thinking with none. --Green Dragon 15:15, 17 August 2009 (MDT)
→Reverted indentation to one colon
- After all the discussion I've read, I think we both know exactly who you're referring to. Even if you insult someone in an oblique or evasive manner, you're still insulting them. --Ghostwheel 15:18, 17 August 2009 (MDT)
 New Home
Well, living in Germany now. Lets see if I get any free time to actually work here :) --Calidore Chase 14:15, 20 October 2009 (MDT)
- Oh nice. Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Welches Bundesland? Schönes Land, Landschaften, Kultur usw; oder? --Green Dragon 20:24, 20 October 2009 (MDT)
- Das es mina bruda on de tofel!! --184.108.40.206 22:25, 20 October 2009 (MDT)
- Der ist mein brüder; der an den tofel (was bedeutet tofel?)... --Green Dragon 23:06, 20 October 2009 (MDT)
- Tofel means Chalkboard. My brother got into trouble frequently in his High School German class. He was always in detention writing German phrases on the chalkboard. Things like "I will not teach German swear words to others". As such, the only German phrase I ever learned was "That is my brother of the chalkboard". :p --220.127.116.11 23:23, 20 October 2009 (MDT)
- Unfortunately, no Deutsch yet. I can drive over here now. mwahahahahahahaha --Calidore Chase 14:31, 21 October 2009 (MDT)
- Found a home today, get closer and closer to having real internet!--Calidore Chase 11:05, 2 November 2009 (MST)
- Well, internet connection in my new home town are utter crap (384Kbs max) so we need to look into satellite interent. Craziness. I swear I will eventually be able to once again take up my duties here. --Calidore Chase 05:53, 28 November 2009 (MST)
- Oddly I've been in two homes since I last wrote on here... My newest home has pretty good I-net.. I, unfortunately, just do not have time... --Calidore Chase 16:14, 18 May 2011 (MDT)
Review for my new class Presto
Hi Calidore Chase,
I would kindly ask you as creator of the class “Prestidigitator” to review my first self made class “Presto”. I should warn you in advance that my English is not my primary language. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Presto_%283.5e_Prestige_Class%29
With kind regards. Onra77
Hi Calidore Chase, me again, on the topic: Prestidigitator http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Talk:Prestidigitator_%283.5e_Prestige_Class%29 I had placed the following: “The loss of one level of spellcasting was supposed to help balance out the additions of the abilities. “. I suppose that this was necessary when this class had 5 levels but know it has 10 levels I would add “+1 levels of Existing Class” for the first level. --Onra77 20:30, 6 July 2011 (GMT) What's your opinion on this --Onra77 15:25, 13 December 2011 (MST)
|I award you this WikiGnome Barnstar in recognition for your many tidying-up edits. Marasmusine (talk) 02:15, 24 January 2013 (MST)|
- Thanks :D --Calidore Chase (talk) 02:35, 24 January 2013 (MST)