SRD Talk:Armor Class

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This section could be better described... Even though it is OGC, could I post a re-write? --Aarnott 12:34, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

Armor Class Enhancement Stack[edit]

I have a question, regarding stacking of armor class enhancement. I already searched google and checked the wizards Q&A archive, but i found no answer there.

Easiest way to explain is an example. Leather armor + 1 = 3 AC total: 2 base armor class + 1 armor enhancement.

Do base armor class and armor enhancement of same type stack, if they come from different sources?

Example: Mage armor provides +4 armor bonus (seems like base armor class to me). If i combine this spell with a +1 leather armor, how much AC total?

If nothing stacks, the sum is 4, because mage armor overwrites the 3 AC total of leather armor +1. But if base AC and armor enhancement from different sources stack, it would be 5 (4 base AC from mage armor + 1 from armor enhancement leather armor). Zarathustra 07:44, 2 September 2009 (MDT)

Like bonuses do not stack. +4 Armor (Chainmal) and (+4 Armor Mage Armor) = +4 armor.
Unlike bonuses stack. +4 Armor and +4 Natural Armor and +4 enhancement = +12.
--Dmilewski 04:00, 3 September 2009 (MDT)
You can totally wear bracers of armor +8 and +5 twist cloth for a +13 ac and null max dex and armor check penalty. no monk's belt though. -- 06:36, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

Touch Attack[edit]

Touch attack loops the link back to the beginning of the article. I found this while searching for instructions on how to carry out a touch attack. Shouldn't that be where the link redirects, instead? Jwguy 23:23, 22 September 2009 (MDT)

Link removed. —Sledged (talk) 08:59, 23 September 2009 (MDT)


Discussion moved from User talk:Green Dragon/Archive 18#Mechanic Questions. --Green Dragon 13:40, 30 December 2010 (MST)

One of my friends in my D&D group has been planning to add wisdom at least 3 times to his ac by taking various classes that allow wisdom to be added to ac. Is doing something like this allowed? BTW, the campaign we are doing is a gestalt, if that makes a difference. --Cyte —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 22:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC). Please sign your posts!

No. It doesn't stack. Period. --Mythos —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 18:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC). Please sign your posts!
Thanks much. --Cyte —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 21:13, 13 January 2010 (UTC). Please sign your posts!
Hello I am with the above user. Do you have anywhere in any book where it specifically says that Mythos? Thanks for the reply. --Zachrb 21:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Hi, Mythos here...
I'm pretty sure in the SRD (I don't have time to look it up) when it comes to modifiers, that you can only apply ability score modifiers once, like for instance bonuses to AC from a high DEX or WIS score. I think untyped bonuses do stack, however.
Furthermore, as for gestalt (which I categorically despise), even under that, you can only, for instance, use one class' hit die at a time, in this case the higher. Ability modifiers work in much the same way. As for bloodlines, features such as spell save DCs, maximum skill ranks, caster level, those things are calculated using bloodline levels. Sneak Attack and such are only raised by actually having levels in said classes. Sorry to burst their power-gaming bubble. --Danzig 04:13, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick reply Mythos, only 1 of the classes actually have a type for the AC bonus thus the stat can be added 3 times. Also thanks for the reply regarding bloodlines! --Zachrb 06:13, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Hold up. Which classes allow this to stack? Ability modifiers, as I've said, do not stack. By "untyped bonus" I mean bonuses granted by the class, or certain other factors, not including ability bonuses. This is done so as not to totally unbalance the game with class dips. --Danzig 08:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Many of the classes the player has allows you to add wisdom to AC. One of them is a deflection bonus, the other are just wisdom bonus to AC without any type. So what does this mean for the player? Can he add his wisdom once, or once as a deflection bonus and another as a regular bonus? --Zachrb 16:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I would think once as untyped and once as deflection, but which class is it that adds it as a deflection? --Cyte 17:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure you can add your ability modifier only ONCE. It doesn't matter what the type is. As for adding ability modifiers from different ability scores, I know you can, 'cos the Duelist does it. --Danzig 17:17, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
While your interpretation is logical from a balance perspective, I'm pretty sure the reigning methodology is that while other types do not, untyped bonuses stack. --Jota 17:25, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I agree that untyped bonuses stack, but not with themselves. eg adding wisdom twice to ac as an untyped modifier. --Cyte 19:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
That's what I'm trying to explain here. Otherwise with a few clever prestige class dips, or worse, misusing gestalt rules, whilst doing same, you have a build that becomes utterly broken. Any bonus derived from ability score bonuses can only be applied once, right? --Danzig 20:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Logically yes, but I can't seem to find a rule that states this. --Zachrb 22:54, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

←Reverted indentation to one colon

It's out there, but I don't know where. I know I saw it, and it clearly said stacking the bonus for the same ability score doesn't happen. Here's a thought, though. In lieu of finding the rule, why not err on the side of common sense and not allow the bonus to stack? I mean, it works that way with magic spells that have the same effect as each other, so I'd be willing to bet ability modifiers don't stack either. It's just more logical. Otherwise, as I've said before, you can end up with something that completely wrecks the system. Also, has this player considered taking these 3 classes for the assumed triple-stacked Wisdom modifier as being incredibly munchkined? Because this kind of approach to a build is almost always about "Oooh, pluses!!" more than "Oooh, compelling character.." -- Danzig 03:49, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I know most things that give wisdom to AC usually specifically state that they don't stack with the monk or similar abilities. That being said, if it neglects to say it doesn't stack then it probably should stack. Generally untyped bonuses stack with everything, including themselves. If someone were to be an awakened wolverine with the barbarian class, they could gain the benefits of their Barbarian rage and the wolverine's rage both at the same time.


I have a friend who states that his dodge bonus doesn't apply if the creature he is fighting is the same size or bigger than him, is this true?

Answer: In short, no. Your friend might be thinking about Size modifiers. It isn't that they don't apply, they simply cancel each other out. A Small character, for example, gets +1 Size bonus to AC, and a +1 to hit. Fighting another Small character, his +1 to hit overcomes his opponents +1 Size bonus to AC. But those are not Dodge bonuses. They apply because bigger things are easier to hit that smaller things. See

More Description[edit]

This article needs either a rewrite or just some additions and alterations. For example, Natural Armor explains nothing about what it actually is. A simple amendment, like the one in the 3.5e PHB, would clear up any initial confusion and provide necessary basic flavour;

"Natural Armor: Natural Armor improves your AC. (Members of the common races don't have natural armor, which usually consists of scales, fur, or layers of huge muscles.)"

Or this entry from the D&D Glossary from WotC ([1]);

"natural armor bonus: A bonus to Armor Class resulting from a creature's naturally tough hide. Natural armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with armor bonuses) except other natural armor bonuses. Some magical effects (such as the barkskin spell) grant an enhancement bonus to the creature's existing natural armor bonus, which has the effect of increasing the natural armor's overall bonus to Armor Class. A natural armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks."

We can only copy what the published SRD says. Reprinting other text from the PHB or WotC site is a copyright issue. Marasmusine (talk) 00:26, 12 July 2013 (MDT)
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