Talk:Shinigami (3.5e Class)
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Formatting - 4/5: I give this a 4 out of 5 on formatting because no links are present either to the SRD or the class features from the table. Other than that, it looks good. --Green Dragon 15:15, 22 February 2008 (MST)
I loved the approach you gave to the "Shinigami" thing (I'm a huge fan of Bleach). Now for the sugestions:
1st: The spell list is just broken. It grants spontaneous divine spellcasting, with a mix of wizard/sorcerer only spells AND the ability to learn any spell through study. Even though it only goes up to level 6 and has a small spells known list, I think it should be reviewed, specially the learning spell not in the list thing.
2nd: The shikai looks good, but the bankai seems a little restrictive. The shinigami bankais have at least 10 templates which are all mixed up and with some special unique abilities. Maybe the bankai should have like an ability A, B, C, D... instead of a fixed table, then you could choose from any ability of the corresponding grade or lower (as ability A, B, or C could be put in the ability C slot). Maybe they should have some pre-requisites for abilities that improve (such as HD, damage size...), but that would give more customization.
3rd: The summoning seems a little weak, since it leaves the shinigami without his zanpakutou and gives a CR 11 creature, wich owuldn't pose a threat to a CR 15 creature the shinigami should be fighting. Even with HD bonus, the summon is too weak.
4th: I don't see this class playing in a party with fighters, monks, wizards and the like, since it's pretty much directed to a Bleach oriented universe. So, power issues aren't actually an issue, since Hollows and other monsters would be designed to pose an appropriate challenge. Still, full BAB and spellcasting is too much and two good saves is too much. Btw, the only weak save (Ref) is the one that comes to my mind as first for a shinigami (they always move SOOO fast...)--ElfsMaster 00:23, 25 April 2008 (MDT)
- Oh, I have attention. Thank you, let's see....
- 1st- Actually I just C/P'ed that right from the SRD's sorcerer. I think that line is just supposed to suggest "DM's can change the spell list if needed or make up new spells" and not actually indicating that they can learn any spell they want, which wasn't my intent. I will have a look over the spell list though... I have the same problem I had with DBZ and balancing the use of powerful fighting and powerful supernatural ability in the same package. I am tempted to split it up into a Shinigami, Fighter and Shinigami, Caster class. I'll get back to that one later.
- 2nd- Did have trouble with that, I tried to minimize it for shake of space. However I like your idea, of piecing together a bankai's powers. I'll work on that part now.
- 3rd-Understood, I'll revamp that when I revamp Bankai.
- 4th-I actually mean to try and build a D&D version of a Shinigami. While I don't doubt that the game would probably be tailored with Hallows and the like, for sake of mutable flavor I am trying to build it in mind of having a world where not all your friends can just hop out of their bodies. It's difficult, but thinking them as fighters tailored to handle the ethereal and incorporeal seemed to be a good start. Now.... good point about the Reflex save. If I find something I can dumb down (probably spellcasting), I may make Reflex good, and Will as an intermediate save deal, like the Grace ability for Swashbucklers. -- Eiji 11:30, 26 April 2008 (MDT)
- As some general suggestions without a detailed reading of the class yet... When designing the class, I would think of Shinigami other than Ichigo since he is generally an exception. The casting would likely be a few evocations and things like Hold Person or Resilient Sphere. --Aarnott 20:24, 26 April 2008 (MDT)
- Indeed (actually both were on the spell list until I wiped it recently for re-design. They'll probably return though). I scoured the interwebs for the various kido spells, so I'll try to include all I can, balance willing.
- I'm going ahead with a variant which is more casting heavy. I see PrC, with continuing zanpaktou progression but less BAB, hp, and fightin'. -- Eiji 20:55, 26 April 2008 (MDT)
- (EDIT) I think that casting version will be it's own base class. Anyway, I'll save high level kidos for that. For this class, I'd like someone to give a look-see over the spell selection and number. Half are just appropriate for ghost-hunters, the other half is based off kido in serious (Shot of Blue Fire = Fireball, etc). As it's a mostly fighter class, said powers come at later level in an effort to balance. When I make the caster variant, it will be more like cleric/druid and have a more classic progression, with Fireball coming about the time this fighter version is just getting first level spells). -- Eiji 23:20, 26 April 2008 (MDT)
- I guess a spellcasting and a fighter class would be better, pretty much like Rukia and Ichigo. Sorry about the 1st thing, I just see my players saying "well, I'm studying invisibility, greater so I'll learn it..." and that kind of thing that would unbalance the game. Im planning on creating an anime campaign, so seeing anime classes are wonderful. If you need any help, I'm here xD. --ElfsMaster 01:32, 27 April 2008 (MDT)
It's ready to review. Seems to be some debate over full or medium BAB given the last change. Rather than edit it back (since if I can get away with it, full BAB would be nice), time to ask around about balance. The spells, while handy, I figure are low key... the big things are the class powers and bankai. Are they too much? Is full BAB good? Saves too much? Hit me. -- Eiji 13:19, 4 August 2008 (MDT)
Here are some ideas you could kick around.
1 For the Shikai Special Ability at Level 10, it might be good to be able to trade the spell-like ability for ranged attacks (with melee Zanpakutos) or maby even a few aria attacks (with either range or melee Zanpakutos). These would probably be like 3-5/Day (or more).
2 I personally think that the range for the Dimension Door spell is a little big for Flash Step (level 5). I think that maby 1/4 of the spell rage would be fitting for Flash step.
3 A +10ft speed might be a nice accompanyment to the Flash Step. In the Bleach series everyone is always moving fast but isn't always Flash Stepping. -Tyraxor, 16:01, 21 January 2009 (MTD)
- 1) What range do you suppose would fit? It sounds nice. 2) Really? Well, in conjunction with 3) it sounds about right. Thanks for the input, I think I'll mess with this a bit then. -- Eiji 19:47, 21 January 2009 (MST)
Even More Ideas!!
here be some of my suggestions (i know 'be' should say 'are' but too bad)
- Make the original kido spells, it might take a while but there are only a few and they are all on a bleach wiki with descriptions and the incantations.
- Why not make the shikai and bankai special abilities like player's can make original spells at like 7th-9th level? it would add more originality to every character.
- Ummmm.... nope that's it --- Styrker-Fyre 11:37, 15 September 2009 (MST)
- I has a more to suggest
- For Kido spells you could make it a point-based system like Spiritual Pressure Points or something like that.
- For the summoning thing you should keep the sword because the two characters who summon something ( Mayuri Kurotsuchi and Sajin Komamaura) both kept their swords.
- I forgot to read it but do you have original shikai and bankai abilities coz you should make them , in addition you could make names for the swords depending on abilities.
- and Final. You could always make flash step similar to the Jumper Class teleporting ability though you would have to tone it down.P.S i would make all these changes cept im lazy and have BAD balance issues and would probably make underpowered and overpowered abilities otherwise i would have made (NOOOO!) another shingami class even though there are like 7 shinigami classes now and *trails off* I know all the creators of them classes should work together an make one final absolutely brilliant shinigami class..... i stop talking now--Stryker-Fyre 12:24, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
- Since this author is no longer really active on D&D Wiki feel free to adopt this article and implement, in a balanced way, good ideas. --Green Dragon 03:57, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
I am a huge fan of bleach and D&D. Having watched the anime and played the game I think it is very difficult to create both a balanced class and an accurate depiction of the characteristics seen in the anime. I have the following generic suggestions:
1. As level grows no verbal component for spells. this is because high level characters do not use incantations for their spells. (for example no verbal needed for spells -2 levels of the highest spell level you can cast.) this means less casting time. Also material components should be used only in high level spells. (the only material comp. I remember seeing in bleach is blood, so perhaps the higher level spells should cost hp + reiatsu)
2. Regarding all shinigami abilities: They are all based on reiatsu so there should be a reiatsu point system both for spells and shikai/bankai/shunpo abilities. (Something like a pool of potential the shinigami taps in and can use as he likes depending on character)
3. Regarding bankai: It is supposed to be about 10 times as strong as shikai which i dont think is properly reflected (except in the vizard shinigami prestige class)
Power - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because it doesn't seem to function that well in a game that doesn't involve incorporeal creatures, although it doesn't do horrible without them. But it's good that you gave us a warning beforehand. :) --Lhurgyo 19:02, 29 September 2010 (MDT)
Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because you really stuck to the D&D wording really closely, heck, I'd mistake this for a normal class if I saw it in a book. --Lhurgyo 19:02, 29 September 2010 (MDT)
Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it has a very nice flavor to it, although not very useful in most games (which is mostly forgiven by your warning). --Lhurgyo 19:02, 29 September 2010 (MDT)