Talk:Level 40 Expansion (5e Variant Rule)

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This is really cool, but have a few questions. I'm a little confused on the scaling of proficiency. As I understand it, it's +7 at 25, +8 at 31, and +9 at 38, is that correct? Or does one start with +7 at 21 and end with +10 at 39? (I really love the idea of a +10 in proficiency, it's beautiful) Also, does the damage dealt by cantrips scale in this system? Maybe one or two additional dice here and there? Finally, is it necessary that all characters become celestials? A god can be a variety of creature types, and I would imagine that a tiefling character might prefer to become a true fiend / a necromancer becoming an undead / warlock becoming an abberation / elf becoming a fey / ect. Thanks! Malachai (talk) 18:55, 26 December 2020 (MST)

Shoot! I knew there were a few things I was forgetting! Everything written here had only ever existed in my head before this was made, so the cantrip damage I forgot to write down the scaling for. Oops! The proficiency bonus (I should add this... somewhere) increases at the standard interval of every 4th level based on when it last increased (since 17th level was the final increase, 21st level is when it increases again), then starts taking longer and longer to increase, resulting in +7 at 21, +8 at 26, +9 at 32, and ending with +10 at 39. As stated, stuff like this very easily breaks the Bounded Accuracy 5e was designed with, so extreme caution should be used when implementing anything even close to this in a campaign. At the very least, characters at 26th level that used their IASI (Improved Ability Score Improvement) to upgrade their main stat (assuming they had a 20 in it by 20th level, therefore increasing it to either 22 or 23) would have the insane +14 to hit before literally everything else. Anyways, the 'celestials' thing is easily modifiable if you and the player really want to be something else, but part of the idea is that the whole reason why you are able to break the limits of mortality is because your sheer power has caused you to ascend. Apart from that, that little bit of information and lore also came from the campaign I was running and was also mostly a placeholder that accidentally became permanent. IntellectMaster (talk) 17:33, 27 December 2020 (MST)
Yeah, I love that +10 proficiency. Didn't expect 3 additional cantrip dice, I'd hate to go up against a sorc 20 / warlock 20 here. Malachai (talk) 19:48, 27 December 2020 (MST)
I think the BBEG in Critical Role's first campaign deals a similar amount of damage with its cantrips. While it is a deity, it's also only a CR ~30 creature for the purposes of combat, and since most monsters follow spellcasting leveling differently from PCs he would probably rate as a 35th level wizard using a different spellslot progression (I'm going to add alternate tables for that, since it'll be important for anyone who doesn't like the idea of above-9th-level spellslots). --IntellectMaster (talk) 12:00, 25 January 2021 (MST)

Plans for Artificer?[edit]

Artificer beyond 20th level? Please WAPS (talk) 22:32, 23 January 2021

Ah, yes, well, you see, I do have a version of artificer extended levels... from a 2017 UA artificer. It's was a ton of work to do these, but I suppose since it's official, I might as well do one for official artificer. Give me a few days to figure out what I would even want for this.
Sure, sure, I just wanted to know if you're going to make a artificer, I'm not rushing you. WAPS (talk) 12:53, 24 January 2021
Nah, I'm not feeling rushed. It's something I was needing to do anyways, and this is a nice kick in the butt to get me going! --IntellectMaster (talk) 11:46, 25 January 2021 (MST)
Well, over a year later and I've finally actually done it! I've added a level extension for the official artificer, but I have to admit, I wasn't feeling particularly inspired for what to do with the armorer subclass, so if it feels bland, that's why. --IntellectMaster (talk) 21:33, 22 February 2022 (MST)
Oh yeah, finally, many thanks! WAPS (talk) 22:08, 23 February 2022 (GMT+3)

Plans for Circle of Spores Druid[edit]

First off, I LOVE THE CHANGES. Like honestly all of the things you've come up with blew my mind. I honestly wish that the entire thing was completed as I am in love with them. I have a one-shot coming up that will be level 40 and was thinking about running circle of the spores. Do you have any plans to finish the druid?


Sorry for the long wait in me answering this, but first of all: Thanks! Glad you like them! :D
Second, in its current form, it is completed. If I ever decide to add in expansion content (aside from artificer), that fact will change but it's currently in a finished if limited form. Which brings me to my third statement: I currently do not plan to add the Circle of Spores druid. Honestly, there's just too many subclasses (across all classes) that I don't care about or even outright dislike for me to want to even try expanding upon them for this alternative rule. It's not that it's particularly hard to do, but time consuming to think of my own ways to improve upon and expand upon the concepts presented in any given subclass. I actually a ton of trouble thinking of what to do for all the cleric subclasses in just the PHB, and wizard was only marginally easier. Now, this opinion of mine may change in time, but unfortunately I must be disappointing and say TLDR: I do not have any plans to finish the druid. Sorry! :( --IntellectMaster (talk) 21:33, 22 February 2022 (MST)


Do you plan on creating an Extended Cleric Classes page with these rules? Just curious since it's the only class that doesn't have one. It makes sense if you chose not to with how many subclasses they get, but I just want to know definitively.

Why yes, I do. In fact, I already have. I'll edit the page so it's easier to see all the different links to the classes. ;) --IntellectMaster (talk) 21:33, 22 February 2022 (MST)

Late game saving throws[edit]

As I see it, most classes can get to 24 or even 26 in most stats, and as their AC scales a little bit more, because of the nature of Demigod, and Dexterity with Light armor, the AC works fine, as creatures with more CR gain a higher to hit chance. However, this is not the same with saving throws, as most characters only have 2 saving throws that only scale a little bit with their modifier, making the gap between mages(since they have the most common effects to force saving throws) and martials way broader, not to mention the 2x of spell slots. I was thinking maybe give everyone a little buff in all their saving throws to combat this? --KyleFRS (talk) 12:23, 24 May 2022 (MDT)

Not a bad idea. Perhaps I'll just tack that onto the +1 AC, as an all-round defensive buff from a single feature. Plus, looking at the martials again, most need some more TLC anyways. --IntellectMaster (talk) 00:46, 25 May 2022 (MDT)
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