Talk:Kreinos (3.5e Race)

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+8 Constitution... WHAT??[edit]

No. Just no. Even for an LA +1 without a non-adjustment Hit Die, this is overpowered. A level 1 Kreinos tank using the standard ESR would be starting with 23 Constitution, a stat made for characters in the Wuxia level of gameplay (10 levels away!). Tanks would be garuanteed to have at least 50% more health than just about any opponent they would face; a level 1 Kreinos Barbarian would have 18 HP, compared to an Okeanos of Charon Barbarian with 14 or 15 HP. That's 120-130%, and we're assuming that those races were specialized for taking damage, something that they're not supposed to do. A Charon Wizard would have 7 HP, and an Okeanos Sorcerer would have 8 HP... which is 260% and 220%, respectively.

So WAY to much Constitution. Make that +4, at most. Then you can make the penalties -2 Cha only, and rebalance the game a little. Of course, there's also the +5 Natural Armor, which is ridiculous. Take that down to +3. The Poison and Illusion immunity is also insane, and should be nerfed, if not removed. Everything else is just icing on the cake, and should be cut in half. --00:08, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Lol, nice job tearing apart my race. :P Although you do have merit, this race does need revision, I'll give you some defense to your points, but know I am going to change the bonuses. First off, compare the Krienos to the minotaur, which is +2 LA. Minotaurs have larger bonuses to stats, +5 NA bonus, and more special abilities... the Krienos being weaker than a +2 LA monster, then, of course is a +1.
Second, the immunity to poison and illusion is just a slight variation of an ability gained by the druegar, which looking at all of their abilities is actually a relatively minor ability compared to their other bonuses. This is a minor ability of a +2 LA creature, so really not a huge deal in my mind. In either case, I will change this, and the massive bonuses and penalties, while they even out to some degree, do unbalance the game. Along with other bonuses players get in Orion, this will be modified.--Vrail 01:23, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
minotaurs also have 6 racial hd, so its more than 2 levels to be one (8 total). la is just 1 part of balancing, so comparing a 2 level race to an 8 level race is a bad compairison--Name Violation 02:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Monstrous humanoid levels have nothing to do with LA. LA +2 totaling ECL 9, however the ECL does not matter. The monstrous humanoid levels simply add to the ECL and make the LA no higher. So this is a fair comparison.--Vrail 02:48, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
No, your wrong about that. compare this to most La +2 races with no hd, like druegar. looking at the recent changes, i agree that the NA should drop to 3, and then its a balanced +2 LA. compair it to druegars or other +2 la races with no HD. it looks on par with those. --Name Violation 02:51, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Lol, it seems we are at an impasse as I disagree with you on that too. :P I have dropped the constitution bonus to +4 and I believe dropping NA to +3 is a good idea to, but past that I still think it deserves a +1 LA with these modifications.
Anybody else have an opinion to help us out?--Vrail 02:55, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, now I like it for LA +1. The only thing that bothers me (well, two things) is/are these: 1) They're made of rock. But they breathe underwater and SWIM at the same speed that they walk. What the hell? Just a flavor thing. 2)Poisons, phantasms, and paralysis is a lot to me, but you did bring up the Duergar so I as well just shut my mouth. --For Valor 05:06, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Oops, didn't think of that rock + water = float?. :P However I still want both of those traits... hmmm, I'll think about how to do this. For the Poisons, phantasms, and paralysis thing, I'll still consider it, however I do think it should stay, if anything I will most likely remove phantasms. However they're not huge issues, because at higher levels these effects are rarely effective on players anyways.--Vrail 05:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
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