Talk:Darkfire Guild Wizard (3.5e Prestige Class)

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How do I add this to homebrew with description? --Calidore Chase 08:03, 10 January 2007 (MST)

I knew this would happen... Recently Sledged made a template for all the PrC's that had the dlpc header imbeded in it. However, when Blue Dragon was programming the dlpc extension he did not think to make it work through a template page. So, all the PrC's are using old databases and if one was to change their description, etc, nothing would happen. So, until Blue Dragon makes the dlpc work through a template Sledgeds template will not work. So, all you have to do is add the dplc header manually (I just did this, however, make sure to fill out what I did not). Sorry for this problem, and it should be fixed soon. --Green Dragon 14:53, 10 January 2007 (MST)
Great, thanks for the help. --Calidore Chase 14:56, 10 January 2007 (MST)
Is it working for you? It is not showing up for me... What about on your computer? --Green Dragon 15:01, 10 January 2007 (MST)
Nope not yet. Didn't realize you were on and making changes, hope I didn't screw something up. --Calidore Chase 15:02, 10 January 2007 (MST)
No, I only had one edit conflict, but oh well. Anyway, have you "purged" the homebrew with description page yet? --Green Dragon 15:05, 10 January 2007 (MST)
Just tried it and still not seeing it there... --Calidore Chase 15:22, 10 January 2007 (MST)
I'll ask Blue Dragon what the problem is... This is annoying. --Green Dragon 18:13, 10 January 2007 (MST)
How odd, the DPLC is now showing up at the top of the page. --Calidore Chase 03:52, 18 January 2007 (MST)
The DPLC is undergoing some changes, however Blue Dragon has not devoted much of his time to fixing it... Anyway, it should be removed sometime, and sorry for that. --Green Dragon 21:08, 18 January 2007 (MST)

Rating - 1/10[edit]

Incomplete for 2 months. Been waiting, abilities sound pretty cool. --Shadow Fire 03:44, 27 July 2007

Sorry, had a brief hiatus due to work and school. Hope to be able to return to this project soon. --Calidore Chase 13:10, 30 July 2007 (MDT)

Check it![edit]

Well, here is the initial layout with all abilities described. Let the constructive criticism begin :) --Calidore Chase 18:05, 4 September 2007 (MDT)

I suppose the best way to compare this would be to the Loremaster. It is similar in some respects, different in others.
  • Make it require level 3 arcane casting, not any arcane casting.
  • Apprentice to the Fiery Lord is fair
  • Initiate of the eternal flames is fair enough (I'd say the Loremaster is starting to get overpowered here).
  • Dark Knowledge... Busted. So you can summon 3 imps for 24 hours a week at level 8 eh? That is a lot of poison going on. Okay so only Abyssal Minion seems busted, but that is because it is! If you compare these to Loremaster secrets, I'd say the minions and the Shield skill are much better than a feat or 1st or 2nd level spell slot (which are the best secrets).
  • So when you become a dark sage, all offensive spells deal 1d6-2d6 extra damage to guys that oppose your alignment (well good vrs evil sort of thing -- evil vrs evil does nothing)? Oh and you get a free feat? Hrm... I think you can see where I'm going with that one.
  • Master of the Infernal Flames gives a free +1 caster level (similar to an archmage ability but this one has no downside). Compare this with the level 10 Loremaster ability.
  • When do they gain soul sacrifice (which is broken by the way).
This class needs to be compared a bit more to existing PrCs and toned down a bit I think. --Aarnott 15:38, 6 September 2007 (MDT)
I hadn't really paid attention to the loremaster, though I can see why you suggestd using it as a model. But to get right to your points:
  • I think the 'Requirement: must be able to cast 3rd level arcane spells is fair and made that change.
  • I liked Apprentice and thought changing the damage from force to fire would be appropriate, as well fire damage is more commonly protected against than force damage so I thought that it would help lower the potential power of this ability.
  • Not sure that I agree with the Dark Knowlede being busted but I will try to answer your points with counter arguements as follows:
    • So a level 8 mage can summon 3 cr 2 creatures for 24 hours at a time per week. This makes him a major pain for the local populace, but an encounter that included this type of character would have adventurers of a commensurate level. Meaning that a level 8 (pick a class) should be able to pick off the Imp relatively easily and quickly. The poison save for an Imp is Fortitude DC 13, I don't think there are many adventurers that are going to be failing that save.
    • I actually forgot to put a per/when limit on the shield ability, thinking of going per day.
    • Changed damage type on the scribing ability to unholy so that it would actually hit them (gave them fire resistance and then tried to hurt them with fire - smacks own head)
    • The Masters Wrath is self limiting because it only works three times per day but you have to wait for the dagger to reform before you can throw it again.
  • Initiate: Gaining the dagger, fire resistance, and a new language all at once... Well, the dagger is not extraordinarily powerful (almost a dagger +1.5 really :) ), the fire resistance is laughable - most adventurers going in against a fire using enemy will be prepped with Cold style damage anyways, and if they aren't - well poor planning bites everyone in the butt sometimes, finally the language is almost entirely flavor - most PC's won't communicate in abyssal and if they know the language it will just be used to figure out what orders the villain is given.
  • Dark Sage: hmm, a little bit more damage at these levels is not really all that profound. If it is still felt that this is too powerful, I could always go through and either put a level cap for damage spells that are so affected (higher level spells are just too complex to be affected by this ability maybe?) or make them choose a limited number of offensive spells to gain this effect, or I could make it like a metamagic feat that raises the spell level of the and must be prepared before hand to gain this effect. Likes? Dislikes? As for the vile speech feat, well it is kind of a double edged sword because it has the potential to harm the user. (don't have the reference in front of me right now) - I see this more as a flavor feat than a working feat.
  • Master: I'm not sure comparing the ultimate ability of a libraran vs that of a fighter is really relevant. Course this ability was rather off the cuff when I put it in due to a lack of ideas for a penultimate ability for this class. I agree that it may be a bit over powered... I think maybe limiting the +1 caster level to spells of, say, 4th or maybe 3rd level may be more appropriate. Comments?
  • Forgot to put in when they get soul sacrifice, my bad. The abilities conferred by soul sacrifice had already been hashed out under the Darkfire Guild Thief But I removed Soul Sacrifice II as I thought it somehow inappropriate for them. I'm not sure the collection of lower level spells and abilities granted will have a major impact on the character. They can only have three 'gifts' at any one time, may only cast the spell (of 3rd level or lower) 3 times per day (dring which they won't be casting higher level spells), or be under a permanent effect of a spell that can be affected by permanency (none of which are particularly awe-inspiring). Additionally the manner in which they have to get these gifts will almost certainly help bring them to the notice of the adventurers (a built in hook!) I mean really 20 lives lost to see in the dark?
Can't wait to read your counter points. --Calidore Chase 09:34, 8 September 2007 (MDT)
Not really on the same line as the above points, I would like to say an idea I had. First off sorry if this is blunt and to the point, I just broke a bone in my dominant hand (left) and so typing is REALLY slow, therefore I want to type as little as possible. Anyway, the idea I had for this class is to introduce elements of HoH into this. Since the player becomes scarred, etc, I think it would be better, and help tone down this class, if the disfigurement brought penalties. HoH has a list of penalties that happen as the character (going off memory) gets more and more tainted. You could introduce some of these penalties as the character gets more and more scarred to make this more realistic and balanced. What do you think of this idea? --Green Dragon 16:36, 8 September 2007 (MDT)
UNfortunately, I do not have the HoH supplement. I say unfortunately, because I think your idea has a lot of merit and I would like to run in that direction for both this class and the Darkfire Guild Thief. Any suggestions along thse lines would be most appreciated. --Calidore Chase 02:46, 9 September 2007 (MDT)
Well... you could always just make the Cha ability score get decreased since they are becoming disfigured, and, because they are disfigured maybe their fighting abilities could become worse? This is, after all, a magic-oriented class. Another idea I had would be to make the dagger this class gets be more magical focused—maybe allowing a free spell/day or something. The only problem with this is that it would overpower this class more... --Green Dragon 20:52, 9 September 2007 (MDT)
Have gone in and added some drawbacks to the abilities 2 pts of Charisma and 1 point each of Dex and Con spread out amongst the two higher ability sets. Tel me what you think... Have also gone and tried to identify ability types, think I got it right - not entirely positive. The Master Demon Dagger of Falling Ash is actually going to allow direct control over those using daggers of falling ash and Demon Daggers of falling ash. It's the Demon Dagger one that I am having difficulties coming up with a good et of abilities to have on it. Thought about the spell storing or something alon those lines but wasn't thriled. Am actually leaning towards giving them a 'cut magic' style ability that dispels some magical effects like shield and mage armor. Not sure yet. --Calidore Chase 11:43, 12 September 2007 (MDT)
Hm... It may still be a tad overpowered. Maybe you could add more penalties of different kinds, like a decrease in speed, or something different and interesting like that... your ideas? --Green Dragon 22:31, 18 September 2007 (MDT)


I went through and added a slew of drawbacks; tell me what you think. --Calidore Chase 07:09, 20 September 2007 (MDT)

I like them, although I'm unsure about Chaotic Evil for the Soul Sacrifice ability- if they were, for instance, taking every tenth non-Guildperson they met and performing the same ritual every time, it'd be Lawful Evil. Definitely Evil, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily Chaotic. MorkaisChosen 10:57, 23 September 2007 (MDT)
I agree with Lawful Evil in contrast to Chaotic Evil. However, I like the changes, they give this a bit more flavor and balance it a bit :). --Green Dragon 23:40, 23 September 2007 (MDT)
I wasn't meaning specifically LE, I sort of intended to imply that it depends on the character. Sorry if that wasn't clear. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MorkaisChosen (talkcontribs) 14:04, 24 September 2007 (MDT). Please sign your posts.
Take a look at soul sacrifice now. I made some chang that I think add depth to the varieties of evil that take this class. --Calidore Chase 20:14, 29 September 2007 (MDT)
I like it. Good work. --Green Dragon 23:40, 3 October 2007 (MDT)
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