Talk:Dark Elf (4e Race)

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I'm fairly sure I don't have to tell you that this race is unbalanced. True-sight on a PC is just a no, as that removes all concealment in any form, including invisibility. Enlightened should not be +5 to charm, illusion, and fear, Either reduced to a +2 or pick one. Treating a roll as a natural 1 is something a Epic destiny gets to do 3 times a day, so the racial power needs to change. Side note, being considered Fey, Immortal, and Demon (Demons being from the elemental chaos in 4e) doesn't make sense. Cambions are half human half succubi and they are only considered Demons. As such I think this race should just have immortal origin with a devil sub type or Elemental origin with demon sub type, but that's really up to you.--Aitharious (talk) 09:15, 13 September 2017 (MDT)

Truesight is the foundation of the race, for them being able to see around corners and such. There isn't really anything that shows where this is inherently unbalanced. They lack other features they might have instead of this ability.
My issue with true sight is that it hamstrings the DM. They see the invisible rune on the floor or door, they can see anything that's invisible without trying. And you saying "for them being able to see around corners" this implies that they could see a hidden crossbow or false floor. It makes ambushes impossible, traps useless, and neuters creatures who's built around being invisible. I would be more friendly to this if the truesight had to expend some resource even an at-will minor action would be worlds better since it forces a choice, though personally I would have it as a multi use encounter. --Aitharious (talk) 08:54, 14 September 2017 (MDT)

As for an automatic miss, there are other powers in the game that have this ability, and there's nothing in the rulebooks that indicates that this is an epic destiny only feature. There are all kinds of powers at epic destiny that include features found at paragon and heroic, so it being used in an epic destiny power does not automatically limit it from being used with a heroic or racial power.

As for the different types, there are races with multiple types. Immortal isn't really a type of creature, so much as it is a creature simply being immortal, but nonetheless it's usually found within the creature origin. Fey and Demon are creature types, found with elves and other creatures. The Revenant for example is both a living and undead creature, and the Hengeyokai are fey, magical beasts, humanoid and shapechangers. Ultimately this has little impacts on mechanics and is more of a story element, so I feel it's essentially irrelevant to balance issues.

As far as the bonus to the different save effects going +5, I admit it is a bit much, but this was in large part due to the Dark Elf lacking any sort of attack powers. I'm not opposed to changing it to +2, however. JohnSmith82 (talk) 17:19, 13 September 2017 (MDT)

I have seen things that reduce the attack roll with penalties or re-direct attacks, my specific issue is that it forces a fumble. Some DM's may have rules that have the fumble be a weapon drop, or for me I let the target of the fumble have an opportunity attack. --Aitharious (talk) 08:45, 14 September 2017 (MDT)
While that's interesting, a DM could simply remove that or have that be an extra benefit in their game if they choose as that is not an official rule in the game. We shouldn't base powers on other home rules that might exist. JohnSmith82 (talk) 20:05, 14 September 2017 (MDT)
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