Talk:Gypsy (5e Background)

Maybe better proficiencies would be Vehicles (land) (in the UK at least the stereotype is that they travel by horse and wagon), a musical instrument (dancing is another stereotype) and a bonus language (since they travel far and wide). I don't think they're really known for their map-making skills or ability to chart a ship's course. Marasmusine (talk) 14:20, 5 February 2015 (MST)

Also features "should avoid strict game benefits." Marasmusine (talk) 16:53, 7 February 2015 (MST)

And tool proficiencies are interchangeable with languages; you're supposed to get two of either-or, not two of each. As for the background, more important than being role-play oriented is its function. A background feature is supposed to encourage interaction with the DM, players, or setting. It's supposed to lead to adventure, or give you something deeper to dig for in roleplay, or give the DM a cue to involve the player, or to encourage, push, or otherwise motive them. Finally, it gives a metric by which inspiration may be rewarded.--Kydo (talk) 11:24, 8 February 2015 (MST)

Ok. Did some research. Here's what you need to know about the Romani, (or, more derogatively, "gypsy") people.

• It is pretty clear they migrated out of india ~1500 years ago. (That's about 500 AD) It is believed they were war refugees from a rather nasty conflict which was happening in those regions at that time... But nobody actually knows where they really came from, or why.
• However, they didn't arrive in Northern Europe until 1200-1600. That's roughly a thousand years of multi-generational meandering, criss-crossing many different lands. (Oh, for an idea of the time period, 1200 is around when chainmail became standard military garb, and the arms/armor race leading to full plate and siege warfare began. 1500 is the century where plate mail reached its peak, where the ideas of knightly warfare and chivalry began to fade, and gave way to the rise of the middle class gentry and gunpowder in the 1600s. In other words, they got to Europe somewhere in the medieval-ish period.)
• They failed to maintain a strong grip on their history or faith, not even in oral tradition. As a result, Romani beliefs became infused with the surrounding dominant culture of whatever region they were in. They would keep their language and social traditions, but everything else would become a distorted version of the status quo.
• Although many were nomadic, not all were, and Romani settlements still exist to this day.
• Most Romani groups are very religious compared to modern culture. Religion plays an important role in day-to-day life, and traditional gender roles and age based authority are well maintained. Romani place great importance on family and extended family as though there were no distinction.
• For whatever reason, music and art seems to be in their blood. Wherever they have gone, they have permanently impacted the musical arts. Instrumemts such as the guitar have been attributed as Romani inventions, and everything from Jazz to Flamenco can trace some Romani influence. Dance and fashion, too, have similarly been repeatedly defined and redefined by Romani culture groups.
• There is no place on Earth where the Romani have truly integrated, despite being permanently present in many nations for over a thousand years. They have always been seen as outsiders and strangers, and so have always been vilified and subjected to terrible prejudice. At best they are seen as nothing more than a colorful version of North American hillbillies or white trash. At worst, they have been assumed to be a species of intrinsic thieves or devil worshipers and subjected to exile or genocide. Invariably, this prejudice directly feeds the type of financial desperation which leads many Romani youth into criminal activities, such as theft or organized crime.
• The characterization of Romani as mystics is the result of mass ignorance. Basically, illiterate medieval folk saw carnival folk and Romani as essentially the same: colorful people in wagons and tents speaking strange languages. Romani garb, music, and dance probably didn't help clarify things either. The ideas were similar enough that they became the same thing after passing through several hands.

--Kydo (talk) 00:26, 9 February 2015 (MST)

We should be careful about separating a fantasy concept of a gypsy (perhaps to the point of renaming this to "traveller" or somesuch) from the gypsies that exist today. In the UK the term is more associated with Irish travellers rather than Romani. Marasmusine (talk) 01:16, 9 February 2015 (MST)

Absolutely. Their depiction in fiction is so different from reality that fictional "gypsies" might as well be a totally different culture! I just wanted to bring some historical roots into this to show where it all originated from, and where the ideas came from. What makes them gypsies is:

• Mysterious exotic ethnic background, forgotten even by themselves.
• Bizarre, implacable language and accent.
• Strong religious values with strange (but not inherently evil) deviation from cultural norms and an absence of religious institutions.
• Extremely traditional, almost isolated, family values, with large families.
• Music and dance, with costume-like daily garb.
• Permanent outsiders, mostly nomadic with few impermanent settlements.
• Plagued by prejudice from ignorant settled folk and religious purists.
• Pressure toward dishonesty and crime due to economic stress.

--Kydo (talk) 13:00, 9 February 2015 (MST)

hey!

Im actually surprised this got some talk

• i was more or less giving it something to do with the navigator tools and cartographer tools
• I understand completely how it doesn't belong
• Iwas more adding things to it i was increasingly sleepy when i created this and i have been meaning to get around to fix it and other stuff I walso like to thank you all for giving me a reason to fix all of this
• also i understand my coding skills are incredibly basic if any one had a reference guide i could follow that would be great! i would love to see others take what i have and improve it and it would make me happy

Hi Zackokross, thanks for returning. I wonder if we could emphasize more the idea that this character traveled with a family or small community? Marasmusine (talk) 01:43, 11 February 2015 (MST)

HEY! im suprized i got a response so quick. im down to improve this... how would you recommend we go about the family thing?

My suggestions:

• Replace the tools with a vehicle proficiency. Probably land, but gypsy cultures have occasionally travelled by sea. (Hence their presence in the americas) This could be paired with the matching proficiency, (cartography for land vehicles, navigation for sea vehicles) but it doesn't really suit the theme.
• Give them proficiency with music or gaming. Optionally give them proficiency with thieves tools, but I think its better that criminal gypsies take the rogue class or the criminal background.
• They need a bonus language, possibly a unique "gypsy" language extant only in this background, that way it only bends the proficiency limits slightly.
• Their feature should deal with one of the following:

• A large family with lots of relationships.
• Strong religious values motivating behavior.
• Survival in the face of prejudice and ignorance.
• Ths difficulties of itinerant culture.

• The feature needs to be something that gets the PC involved in the game and can be used to earn inspiration.

Kydo (talk) 15:14, 18 February 2015 (MST)