Talk:Graveborn (4e Creature)

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Comments?[edit]

I have the sneaking suspicion that i may have gone a little overboard on the powers. What can i say, i got excited. Please Examine And Critique Honestly. Techpriest 23:43, 7 October 2009 (MDT)

I would love to help...but given the ire normally thrown at me when I attempt to PEACH something I have given up on trying. Although I will suggest you Playtest your creation a few times (using various party configurations), as that can give you plenty of insight on the "balance" of your creation. Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but I really hate the venom spewed on this site when your suggestions don't match what others decree. Good luck. -- Sepsis 13:25, 8 October 2009 (MDT)
No, please. Feel free. I'm not the type to get pissy at all. Even if i don't particularly like or agree with what you say, i'll take it into serious consideration. I have the habit of writing 2-page essays critiquing other people's creations (which i'm sure they thoroughly enjoy), so i haven't got room to complain, even if i wanted to. Techpriest 16:29, 8 October 2009 (MDT)
I do believe you honestly want help, but I should have been clearer in explaining the foul attitudes tend to come from a rather elite group of "wiki gods" that troll this Wiki, not from the actual authors requesting assistance. Still I hate to leave someone out when they honestly request input, so I will PT this beastie a bit and get back to you on anything I think might need tweaking. -- Sepsis 11:23, 9 October 2009 (MDT)
"elite group of "wiki gods" that troll this Wiki" - quite condescending. (1:1) --Green Dragon 14:23, 9 October 2009 (MDT)
I truly appreciate it. Techpriest 13:52, 9 October 2009 (MDT)

Thoughts[edit]

First let me apologize to GD (and any others I may have offended), I guess I'm still a bit sore about being berated and sworn at (with no reprecussions until I asked for help...only to be punished myself). But that is past and I will not bring it up again. Now as to this little monster; I PT'd this about 15 times with several party combinations, and given the results here is what I would suggest:

  • Spiked Chains: Given the Reach and additional damage they can gain from exemplar of death I would put the base damage at 1d10+6.
  • Death's Harbinger: This should be an Encounter power that does not recharge (unless you make this an Elite or Solo).
  • Maddening Whispers: This is very powerful, balances better when the Recharge is {6} only, or even an Encounter power (again unless you make this an Elite or Solo).
  • Shadow Cloak: I found this balanced better as an Encounter power or rechargeing when the monster is first bloodied (if an Elite or Solo).
  • Whispers of the Grave: This was just overkill. I would suggest losing it entirely.

Well thats all I have for now. If more comes to me I will let ya know. Good luck, and enjoy. -- Sepsis 09:34, 12 October 2009 (MDT)

Ooops...appears I made a huge mistake with the Spiked Chains attack, given it is a weapon it should follow the standard damage output for the weapon (regardless of role or level), meaning the base damage should be 2d4+1. -- Sepsis 16:25, 12 October 2009 (MDT)
I thought i responded like a week ago. >.< Okay, where to start? Whispers of the grave is the graveborn racial power, so i'd like to keep it. Note that the bonus is to a skill check only, so it's usable with Stealth and Religion (or an untrained skill - does this work for escape attempts? seems it might). Would you still consider it over-the-top? I agree, those more high-end abilities should be limited a bit more strictly since this is a "typical" monster. I'm slightly concerned about doing that though, since (other than advantageous terrain or allies) these seem like the only means the exemplar has of obtaining concealment. If i were to perhaps remove/tone-down insubstantial and/or the ongoing damage, maybe we could maintain the shadow cloak power's fairly common recharge? Another option would be making extra damage be dependent upon combat advantage, but that would hurt flavour, i think. --Techpriest 16:15, 16 October 2009 (MDT)
I understand that Whispers of the Grave is the PC Racial power, but as this is a monster it really isn't needed nor is it really required to keep with the Monster, and no Escape rolls would not get a bonus from this. Yes you use a Skill, but it is not considered a "Skill Check". For the most part the power is just superfluous for a Monster. As for Death's Harbringer and Shadow Cloak; if you really want to keep the additional ways for the creature to gain Concealment (although this could be were other support monsters would help it out...and/or terrain) I would suggest dropping the Insubstantial from Death's Harbringer and the ongoing damage from Shadow Cloak. That should help balance them. Again I'll PT this with those changes and see how it goes. -- Sepsis 16:39, 16 October 2009 (MDT)
Thanks for your continued interest, Sepsis. I was actually editing as you responded, but i made changes quite similar to what you suggested. I clarified that whispers of the grave is an encounter power. If nothing else, i'd like to maintain it for flavour. The exemplar's passive Stealth check should be moderately difficult, but with the whispers it becomes hard (according to the table on DMG p42), which is just what i was aiming for. I did drop insubstantial from the critter entirely, but i changed up the other mechanics on the shadow cloak - sort of on impulse. The way i see it, ongoing damage will, on average (assuming an unmodified save) deal twice its value in damage, so the creature would have to be struck by 4 necrotic attacks to make the new vulnerability mechanic equivalent to ongoing 10 necrotic damage. I also changed the ranged attack to terrifying whispers which merely immobilises the target. Tell me what you think! --Techpriest 18:00, 16 October 2009 (MDT)
After putting this fellow through some intense PTing (I even used it in an encounter with my Players), I gotta say it works well. I think you can feel good about using it as is...great work, and I hope to see more. -- Sepsis 12:40, 20 October 2009 (MDT)
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