Talk:Deviant (3.5e Class)

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Rating 9/10[edit]

Divination is usually considered weak, after all, specializing in Divination as a wizard only has a one banned school penalty. That's why with this divination focused build I see a lot of potential for someone deeply rooted in the divining aspects of things. With limited spells and spells per day, the emanations, while powerful, are balanced, and the turning of outsiders is useful. Gut reaction says 8, and a 9 for flavor. I'll rate it with the scoring system a bit later to see if math matches up with my gut. -- Eiji 12:19, 10 January 2008 (MST)

Rating[edit]

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the weapon proficiency and great powers and the skills made this class seem balanced. --Hatman 21:20, 29 February 2008 (MST)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the wording was done well. --Hatman 21:20, 29 February 2008 (MST)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because because it was formated well. --Hatman 21:20, 29 February 2008 (MST)

Flavor - 5/5I give this class a 5 out of 5 because because this is a role playing class, not a brute fighter, a sneaky rogue, a healing cleric, or a blasting sorcerer. The Deviant uses philosophy and gains understanding of the univerce and that kind of stuff. --Hatman 21:20, 29 February 2008 (MST)

Taedom - 5/5This is one of the most originally built classes that I've ever seen on here. Makes me wonder what you could do making other classes. Bravo.

Featured Article Nominee[edit]

Yes check.svg.png — This article became a featured article! --Green Dragon 09:33, 9 May 2009 (MDT)

I would like to put this article forth as a featured article nominee, because I believe it complies to all the standards put forth by the feature article nominee page. I am looking forward to hear your thoughts on the matter. --Sulacu 15:47, 26 March 2008 (MDT)

Comment - Ok I just took a quick look at the article (I haven't read it yet just looked at the formatting when I get a chance I'll read it and post another comment) two things that popped out at me the image tends to look better at the bottom of the infobox rather than the top so I'd recommend moving it. The other thing I noticed there is some links to the SRD but not a lot, it is entirely possible that there isn't many terms that can be linked in this article (like I said I haven't read it yet) but I'd suggest just giving it the once over see if you can find any more terms you could link to the SRD. --Hawk 07:40, 28 March 2008 (MDT)

Comment — This needs an example NPC. --Green Dragon 12:58, 29 March 2008 (MDT)

SupportExcept for the Example NPC, this class seem to be completed. I find this class highly original and interesting. The class is balanced and adaptable to almost any campaign setting, good job Sulacu!--Lord Dhazriel 10:11, 12 April 2008 (MDT)

Comment — The spell list needs to be formatted as per the preload. --Green Dragon 23:57, 4 May 2008 (MDT)

Got it for you. --Green Dragon 08:56, 5 March 2009 (MST)
Whew. I think I'm entitled to usher a little hurray. :p --Sulacu 11:50, 9 May 2009 (MDT)

Questions[edit]

It seems odd that emanations are treated as 3rd, 6th, and 9th level spells for their DCs. Do they stay active when you are asleep (I assumed so because of the Alarm emanation)? I assume antimagic field does not affect itself (probably in the spell description so that you don't have to worry about it :P). --Aarnott 06:24, 15 April 2008 (MDT)

They are active as long as the deviant deigns them to be active. Sleeping does not stop the emanations, although they may be deactivated and reactivated at will. The antimagic field emanation does not impede itself, nor do any of the others. In any case, the deviant may still need minor tweaking until the mechanics are completely acceptable. --Sulacu 14:29, 15 April 2008 (MDT)

What is the Hit Die size for them? I can not find it - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.48.53.40 (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts!

It is d6 and is located above the main class table slightly right of the middle. -- Jota 00:55, 2 July 2009 (MDT)

Hi, I found this class very well written, probably bettere than most of the WOTC official material. This is a PG I would love playing. So I'd like having clarifications on some points: 1) Why there are not conjuration/teleportation spells in the spells list!? After reading the entire article I thought spells like Dimension Door, Teleport, etc should be present in the Deviant list. I understand that the Planar Mastery ability gives some of this powers as supernatural abilities but in my opinion, a class like this should have more "mobility" or, maybe, some other options besides Planar Turning. 2) I get it. This is a support class. But the Deviant doesn't have neither cure spells or damage spells. How I supposed to make experience if i can't basically help my party in combat (unless the party is fighting against outsiders)!? 3) It's not specified but i suppose the Deviant memorizes spells like a cleric or a wizard and it doesn't cast them spontaneously. Is it true? 4) The Deviant is really good with Divination spells so why don't you give him Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus (Divination) as a bonus Feats? I don't think it would be broken. Thanks for your help and congratulions for this beautiful class. Sorry if my english is not so good but I hope you can understand my questions.

Complete Overhaul[edit]

I changed a lot of this class, lately, especially in response to my publication on wizards gleemax boards which concluded that the class was rather overpowered. I gave it a big boost in the saves department, reworded a lot of things, took out a lot of annoying and convoluted mechanics (modeling the banishing of outsiders to the epic Planar Turning feat was a great help). Also, there now is a sample NPC. --Sulacu 15:16, 20 April 2008 (MDT)

Rating[edit]

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because everything makes sense, I do not see any glaring grammatical errors (although sometimes I noticed the class name is not pluralized when it should be), and all the class abilities make sense. --Green Dragon 10:10, 5 March 2009 (MST)

Formatting - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because, although nearly perfect, a few things need to be fixed. Many links link to redirects rather then their intended page, such as the class skills and the special ability markers. The Epic Deviants section of this class uses span id's, and if possible they should be changed to use {{#anc:; although I see the problem with this since then they will coincide with the non-epic special abilities. If a solution could be found that would be great. If not, seeing how this has no real affect, it should not matter. A few more links (especially links to categories) should be added throughout - for example in the "Weapon and Armor Proficiency" special ability links to simple weapons, etcetera should be added. In the Human Deviant Starting Package a armor section is not standard, at least it is not in the preload, so I am not sure if this has to be here. --Green Dragon 10:10, 5 March 2009 (MST)

I removed my rating since it is quite nitpicky. --Green Dragon 09:00, 9 May 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because the flavor of this class is truly one of a kind - and I would absolutely love to play this class, if for nothing else then the entire roleplaying side of it. The only issue is that in the Deviants in the Game section some of the options from the preload were deleted and never filled in. I added them back onto this page - not filled out though. --Green Dragon 10:10, 5 March 2009 (MST)

Flavor - 5/5 Looks good to me. --Green Dragon 03:43, 24 April 2009 (MDT)

Spellcasting[edit]

It seems to me that this class, focusing on Divination, it should have the most powerful Divination spell, Foresight, on its spell list. It just seems to fit, or am I missing something? --Tug 12:39, 13 May 2009 (MDT)

Only that it's an 8th level spell for the deviant. :O --Sulacu 15:34, 13 May 2009 (MDT)
I like what you did there. Good use of a "Signature Spell". --Aarnott 04:54, 14 May 2009 (MDT)
Whoops, my bad. --Tug 17:04, 14 May 2009 (MDT)

Rating[edit]

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because It's awesome!!! --Furakko 22:45, 18 June 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because It looks official!(by Wizards, I mean) --Furakko 22:45, 18 June 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because (See above) --Furakko 22:45, 18 June 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I'll be my NPC on tomorrow's game! --Furakko 22:45, 18 June 2009 (MDT)

Rating[edit]

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because One of the best and most well thought out classes I have seen. --65.189.7.207 02:23, 3 July 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because It was easy to understand and easy to make a character out of this template. --65.189.7.207 02:23, 3 July 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the information is well formatted as to make it easier for one to use. --65.189.7.207 02:23, 3 July 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because No need for improvements amazing work. --65.189.7.207 02:23, 3 July 2009 (MDT)


Rating[edit]

Power - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<Although the lack of fighting prowess is very noticeable, this build provides strength in knowledge and in many campaigns that strength may be more powerful than the force of arms or magic>>> --Kitch 15:52, 30 July 2009 (MDT)

Wording - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<it is well-written>>> --Kitch 15:52, 30 July 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<see above>>> --Kitch 15:52, 30 July 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<it is a real neat and versatile character that in the hands of an experienced role-player would be a treat to play as long as you have other players to provide the muscle>>> --Kitch 15:52, 30 July 2009 (MDT)

Good flavor, Mechanics need work[edit]

Rating[edit]

Power - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because while the class concept is well written, mechanically it runs into problems. As it's specifically designed for a heavily immersive campaign, such a character requires specific planning on the part of the player and DM, as the class is able to receive so much information that it could easily wreck a campaign based on intrigue. The class also functions poorly in a combat role. While capable of fighting in melee, it has no way to deal extra damage, poor hit points to tank with, and no healing or offensive arcane spells. The exception is the class's banishment abilities, which are only useful in specific combats, nullifying the combat and making the battle less important and less entertaining. In battle, it serves almost no purpose. Outside of the battle, the character has far too much power. Recommend losing the proficiencies, scrapping either the supernatural abilities or spells entirely, as together they are too powerful and repetitive. Either give it limited sneak attack for damage, or give him some more potent combat spells. Don't give him more skills than 4 per level, as he's already far too single attribute dependent. --71.34.51.250 13:47, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

This rating has been nullified because you need to mention what you are talking about above with the party in mind. That is, D&D is party-based so maybe this class could not function alone, but that does not tell one anything really. In the strangest instance, would a whole party of deviants work? They could potentially get allies easily with their abilities and start a war, for example, and gain the alliance of a kingdom. For example, "if you tell me who killed my grandfather, the king of his time, I will help you". --Green Dragon 23:20, 2 January 2012 (MST)

Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because while the concept is impressive, the wording could be simplified. Mechanically, It reads well enough to be played, although many of the supernatural abilities could be more concise. --71.34.51.250 13:47, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

Since the wording of the above is inconclusive, this has been nullified. If you could explain more what you mean it can be resolved. --Green Dragon 23:07, 2 January 2012 (MST)

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the formatting works fine, well fleshed out and easy to navigate. --71.34.51.250 13:47, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

This rating has been nullified since the question "what is wrong" remains. --Green Dragon 23:07, 2 January 2012 (MST)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because while the mechanics are lacking, the flavor is fantastic. I would want to play a character with this flavor any day, although not with the given mechanics. Keep working on it; it's a class that deserves all the work it can get. --71.34.51.250 13:47, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

Class Similarities[edit]

I was just reading over this class and, in principle, it is very similar to the bard in many aspects. Was this intentional as a variant or inspired by the bard perhaps? --Vrail 18:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Commune Ability and Example NPC[edit]

When rolling to figure out if whatever you are communing with is lying, it says that the deviant rolls. If the whole point of the being lying is to trick the deviant, then should not the DM roll where the deviant can't see? If the player rolls then that would defeat the whole purpose of lying. Then again, in adventures that I play I make the distinct difference between player knowledge and character knowledge, so even if I rolled and knew it was a lie my character wouldn't and would react accordingly. I believe this is what you assumed everybody would do when using this ability, however many people do not play like that so it would be good to clarify that.

Also, on the example NPC, how does he have +18 on spellcraft? Shouldn't it only be +14? (12 ranks + 2 from intelligence)

I don't know what to say about your first question, but this is a response to your NPC question: At level 11 he can have as many as 14 ranks in Spellcraft, plus 2 from his intelligence modifier, and an additional 2 as a synergy bonus for having more than 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana). I've not gone through to do the math and see if he actually put max ranks in Spellcraft, but if he did then the math is correct. --Badger 12:01, 8 March 2011 (MST)
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