Talk:The Three Economies (DnD Other)

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Wish economy sports a fatal flaw

While I like the idea that you can't just use gold for everything, the so-called wish economy (over-hyped to begin with) hinges on the fact that you can chain-bind efreet (or other wish SLA outsiders). Maybe you haven't heart, but efreet are lawful evil. Meaning they get really upset if you disrupt their day to use them as a wish-mule, and when they're really upset they'll probably kill your ass. It specifies that their personality is one of haughty arrogance and grudge-holding.

And even if you're powerful enough to bully ONE, they're LAWFUL evil. They gather in clans or whatever, with big noble families and shit. The MM shows the average example of an efreet (kind of how they show orcs as 1st-lvl warriors, when we know there has to be 10th-lvl barbarian chieftains); think just 'cuz you can humiliate one, that his big bro won't pop in and go, "oh hell naw you mortal assholes!"

Add in the fact that you've insulted their noble family and the entire efreeti race, you, an inferior specimin from the weak and soft material plane, think you're not going to be curb-stomped as a swift action at-will? Seriously? Even though they might laugh at one, if you keep going and using them as wish-mules, there's no way they won't get pissed at your disruptive, enslaving ass.

This isn't a DM's Power Word: No. Merely an application of common sense and causal thinking: "What if I used magic to kidnap, imprison, mindrape, and use like a tampon a dude of a race of powerful magical dickwads, whose entire people are racist, fascist twats who truly believe themselves better than everyone else, and holds grudges against those who prove them wrong (like I'm doing right now), who once I'm done using like a tampon either send him back or kill his ass (either of which will either insult him, insult his people/noble house, or both)?"

By the time you're powerful enough to thwack the beehive that is the entire fire genie population without becoming their bitch, you can just cast wish yourself (and that XP component is a serious snag in getting the wish economy off the ground). But even at level 20, if you continually enrage them by chain-binding, I doubt your ability to deal with a dozen 15th-lvl sorcerer efreet each riding an ancient red dragon (that's twenty-four CR 23 bad-guys, which is EL You're Fucked), whether or not they've sent hundreds of mooks to make you waste your spells and resources. You can just use divinations to know when the epic level efreeti death squads pimpslap your ass? Well if you were smart enough to do that, you wouldn't be dumb enough to piss them off in the first place! Go ahead and run to your timeless plane, think the sultan of the city of brass hasn't dealt with upstart wizards like yourself before? You've basically pissed off an elemental archduke who has eons of experience dealing with people exactly like you; kiss your ass goodbye.

You could chain-bind other outsiders, but anyone who can use wish as an SLA is not going to be any happier. Noble djinn? One, they're rare. Two, you run into the whole "noble house" thing again, but to a lesser extent. Three, chaotic good does not mean chaotic nice. Glabrezu? "...but unless the wish is used to create pain and suffering in the world, the glabrezu demands either terrible evil acts or great sacrifice as compensation." Which may or may not be a problem.

For guys who pride themselves on thinking things through, the extremes of the wish economy is an incongruous example of RAWtardation. How you can talk about chain-binding efreet without experiencing cognitive dissonance is beyond me. Somebody 07:29, 26 February 2011 (MST)

What about when you can afford to buy scrolls of wish? Or enslave the casters you can cast these spells. Or cast it yourself? 15 thousand gp/day is not good. Sure you can't enslave the entire race of efreet, but you can just cast wish. If you can afford things worth 25 thousand gold easy who care if you can't? You can pay an army of demons to do it for you. Wish is an infinite wealth stream. Period.-- 13:52, 12 June 2011 (MDT)

Why not use a Simulacrum of a Noble Djinn that you Planar Allied for a lock of it's hair? Perfectly ethical, and Noble Djinns aren't evil.-- 14:31, 12 June 2011 (MDT)

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