Talk:Metamage (3.5e Class)

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was the absence of spells of 6th 7th and 8th levels intentional?

Yeah, because you can already mod the hell out of the 5th level ones. ~AnimeOtaku137

To Jwguy: The second paragraph of your Power rating has been addressed. I'm not aiming for all fives across the board, (more to just not have two 1s) but I believe my changes warrant at least some change in the Power rating. Oh and thanks for rating the class regardless, I can't exactly review my own classes with anything close to 'fresh sets of eyes'... --AnimeOtaku137 4:41, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

Noted. Jwguy 11:37, 19 August 2011 (MDT)


Power - 4/5 It has the ability to use metamagic essentially for free at a ridiculous rate (At level five, your average metamage can use metamagic for free around eight to nine times, assuming they haven't bought or found any intelligence buffing items, which is a highly likely scenario at level five). Not only that, but the class is packed with abilities far exceeding that of either the Wizard or Sorcerer, gaining Enlarged Spellbook, Scribe Scroll, Arcane Bolt, the Metamagic ability, as well as a domain!

Saying a Metamage cannot learn spells above level five on their own is a trivial setback. A wizard, nor a metamage, would have enough trouble gaining higher level spells to justify being able to cast at such power, freely. He needs only roll higher than twenty for a fifth level spell. At level 7, when the Metamage manages to get his first slots of fifth level, he likely already has +10 to Spellcraft just from leveling diligently, not to mention any other modifiers from synergy, or attribute bonuses, which equal +5 or +6 easy. If there is a wizard in the party? Oh dear lord. He can just borrow the book. Also, this isn't all that different than what a Wizard has to do, at all. --Jwguy 21:01, 11 August 2011 (MDT)

The Edits have done this class a favor. The harsh spell limitations justifies the power that the class brings, I believe. It is a further specialization of the Wizard and Sorcerer; The Wizard is versatile and limitless in capacity, but lacks the ability to fire on all cylinders, and the Sorcerer trades capacity for sheer artillery. This class becomes an even more specialized type of Sorcerer, becoming a literal cannon with almost no back-up, firing intensified spells at the cost of the comparative freedom of the Sorcerer's known spells, and the infinity that is the Wizard's Spellbook.
My only remaining concerns are 'Improved Metamagic', which is an epic level feat, given at fifth level (It makes sense for the class, and can be worked around, but something feels odd about giving an epic level class feature at fifth level. Not a big problem.) and Natural Talent, regarding it's progression. Some Metamagic feats require other metamagic feats, representing progression and mastery, such as Empower and Maximize. Empower is, of course, specializing in making magic more powerful, but at a moderate level. The natural progression becomes Maximize, which becomes a high level version of Empower, and then furthers in Intensify at Epic levels. If you can simply pick from any of these when you gain Natural Talent, why would you ever bother picking Empower when you had the choice of Maximize? I recommend, perhaps, a Skilltree of sorts. Natural Talent will allow you to progress one step along any tree you choose, of which are "Power" (Empower, Maxmize, Intensify, etc.), "Shape" (Widen, Heighten, Etc.) and so on and so forth. That's just one way of helping that smooth out. Jwguy 11:37, 19 August 2011 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 No issues with wording. --Jwguy 21:01, 11 August 2011 (MDT)

Formatting - 4/5 Some portions of the page and loadout are not complete. Otherwise, no problems. --Jwguy 21:01, 11 August 2011 (MDT)

Flavor - 4/5 I don't see much unique or flavorful about this class. It's just an overpowered arcane caster that has all the abilities of a normal arcane caster, and twice the cheese.

This makes things better. No longer is the metamage a mash-up of classes, combining all the good and eschewing the bad, and then putting sugar on the resulting god, but it becomes a role. The Sorcerer is pushed to become the moderate between the potentially infinite spells, but selective casting abilities of a Wizard, and the literal walking arcane cannon that is the Metamage, who has fewer spell choices, overall. This relationship helps define it, allowing it to stand alongside, rather than completely make obsolete, the other spellcasting classes. --Jwguy 21:01, 11 August 2011 (MDT)
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