Talk:Disciple of the Flame (3.5e Prestige Class)

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Where is the HD?[edit]

I was just looking through this class, and did not see where the HD is, I think you might have forgotten it. Good Job with the PrC though. --Green Dragon 09:38, 30 April 2006 (MDT)

Yes, i just noticed it, thankyou for ordering it out. I know something about balance, but formatting the text for wiki was something i had no idea how to do, and i forgotted to add the HD. A few friends have manifested that they feel the PrCs is a bit simple and lacks different abilities, but the 10th level ability is so powerful i had to cut short on the other abilities of the class. Is a caster that isint afraid to go into combat, and nearly impossible to kill. --Maglad 16:48, 30 April 2006 (MDT)

Comments[edit]

I noticed Spells per Day states "the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class." So I changed the header "Caster Level" to "Spells per Day/Spells Known", and changed "+1 caster level" to "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" since this is more than just a caster level increase.

Also, the way Spells per Day is phrased, the PrC allows qualifying characters with levels in an arcane spellcasting class to apply the "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" to their arcane class instead of a divine class. Was this the intent?

Lastly, typically when a PrC enhances a character's existing darkvision it usually increases the range by a fixed amount as opposed to scaling it. I suggest that the character's darkvision increase by 60' instead of doubling it. —Sledged 16:10, 22 September 2006 (MDT)

If you want to pay so many levels as divine caster just to take the class and then start adding to your arcane caster, you are welcome to do so, tough it will leave you with a very crippled character, thats why I saw no need to explain that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.44.154.13 (talkcontribs) 22:18, 13 October 2006 (MST). Please sign your posts!
I think it should be changed to just divine (That would follow the prerequisites). --Green Dragon 11:31, 15 October 2006 (MDT)

Balance - 2/10[edit]

I give this PrC 2/10 because it is Poorly realized and filled with clear balance issues. The reason for this is simple, at tenth level they are immortal with no level loss for dying, and no PC should be able to achieve that. Also, as soon as one enters this PrC they gain DR 5 (through the Houou), then later DR 10, and finally DR 15. Even a class specializing in DR would never get this high, and with all the spells and other overpowering abilities this PrC is flawed. This PrC is unplayable seeing that as soon as the PC reaches 10th level the entire campaign would be ruined because of this. Also, one gains abilities through this PrC that are vague and abstract and would not work well in a campaign. This PrC needs to be toned down with all the overpowering abilities removed and all the abilities worded better, for right now it is unplayable. --Green Dragon 18:14, 1 January 2007 (MST)

At level 17, you can no longer truly die. I fail to see the problem. Surgo 12:40, 6 November 2008 (MST)
I have an idea. Why doesn't the class burn up on death, and instead of auto-reviving, they must be transported back to a certain spot (say where you performed a ritual, or a special phylactery item, to achieve this ability) and be revived in 1d10 days. Basically it's lichdom (slightly weaker since you don't auto-transport to your phylactery). I can't say about the rest of the class, but doing this should dumb down the powerful immortality issue without destroying the idea of someone reviving again from the ashes. That, and if you die alone without a party you've lost both all your stuff and probably a means to revive again. -- Eiji 23:19, 20 November 2007 (MST)
Sounds good, feel free to add it :). --Green Dragon 23:47, 26 November 2007 (MST)
Added some flavor abilities and fixed the respawn power. I'll have to address that bird some other time, it's mad powerful, especially for CR 1. I am thinking perhaps have a chart that shows what abilities you gain for your bird form level by level. Bird form aside, tell me what you think. -- Eiji 00:39, 27 November 2007 (MST)
I feel that this has toned it down considerably, but it has also turned it more into a NPC PrC than a PC PrC. I could see this working amazingly for an NPC—it would be like a vampire without all the negative aspects—but I feel that this should be more player oriented. Maybe, the player would have the option of losing part of him/herself (cutting off a limb or something—game terms losing health permanently?) to be able to, once dead, be respawned. Maybe for every 10 hp lost (the body part hidden somewhere or something) the player could respawn for free at the place where the body part was hidden. Your thoughts? --Green Dragon 22:34, 2 December 2007 (MST)
Hmmm, an interesting concept. Do you think it is a NPC-worthy class because it is to weak? I can figure out more class abilities to balance that. As far as the respawns go, interesting idea. That brings back ideas of something like a phylactery existing for these fire-oriented not-quite-liches. Just one question before I implement more changes: would that be hp loss per every respawn you want to make, or can you respawn there indefinitely until someone destroys said limb/phylactery/whatever? -- Eiji 22:48, 6 December 2007 (MST)
I think, about the losing hp, either way would work. Losing the certain limb (translated into HP) every respawn would probably be more balanced overall, but also less realistic. I feel that it would be more realistic to have a hidden body part somewhere that keeps one respawing, but I think that would be far to overpowering. After thinking about it, it would be better to just lose it every respawn. --Green Dragon 00:00, 13 December 2007 (MST)
I just had a thought. Why try to make something new, I could just say it works as per Resurrection instead of True Rez, and have level loss. o.o Even better if I made them carry their phylactery about them. -- Eiji 20:00, 13 December 2007 (MST)
Sounds good! Just make the level loss as per Resurrection as well as a hp loss for losing a body part (so it will all work). --Green Dragon 20:26, 13 December 2007 (MST)
You should look up the spell phoenix fire from the Book of Exalted Deeds (p 103-104). —Sledged (talk) 20:28, 13 December 2007 (MST)
Nice spell, inspired a bit of what I just did. They would have 7th level spells by their 10th PrC level, so I think offering a dumbed down version that costs perma-loss in hp to gain as a permanent contingent effect is fair. I even put reason for them to worry about their items, since the burning is not an effective weapon as per phoenix fire the spell, and they can still be perma-killed via a good Disintegrate spell. Tell me what you think. -- Eiji 00:38, 14 December 2007 (MST)
It looks a lot better. I think it may be time for someone to rate this again... --Green Dragon 20:48, 15 December 2007 (MST)

Rating - 7/10[edit]

I give this PrC a 7/10 because it is a well thought concept and fairly balanced. It fulfill its hole as a "quasi-phoenix" and has original abilities, such as the Fire Wings and the Wings of Phoenix. But, it seems to lack combat skills. I think it should stick to the 3/4*level BAB progression from the cleric and the druid. Also for tweaking it's abilities, the Houou's DR should be nerfed and the class should receive a mid-level feature (probably a combat-focused or offensive spellcasting-focused one). Other than that, this PrC seems very interesting. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ElfsMaster (talkcontribs) 22:06, 30 January 2008 (MDT). Please sign your posts!

Granted, I took the time to nerf Houou (3.5e Creature). I am no good with CR so I don't know how good it is, but it should be much more manageable. I'm not sure what to put in the empty spaces, but I'm glad the edits got it all the way up to a 7. Let's make this an 8! -- Eiji 01:31, 31 January 2008 (MST)
It lacked combat skills because its original 10th level power was so obviously powerful, and getting there was the crappy part. Since this has been changed, I have no problem raising its combat abilities. Note: The Houou (3.5e Creature) is not mine, as I said already. It is an actual rokugan campaign setting (iirc) monster. --Maglad 9:15, 6 November 2008 (MDT)
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