Talk:Chirurgeon (3.5e Class)

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Formatting and Starting Age[edit]

I've always been terrible with wiki formatting of all types, especially tables. Those spell column titles are supposed to be the 1st level row, and I don't know how to fix it. Also, if someone could explain what starting age is, it would be appreciated. There's also a few minor formatting problems. All of these things are things that I don't know how to fix. Help? --Daniel Draco 13:19, 28 April 2007 (MDT)

Scroll down on this page to find it. -- Flession 13:54, 28 April 2007 (MDT)
Thank you for the help, but that's a broken link. --Daniel Draco 14:34, 28 April 2007 (MDT)
Fixed -- Flession 20:15, 28 April 2007 (MDT)
Formatting should be all taken care of now, right? --Green Dragon 20:58, 30 April 2007 (MDT)
Yes indeed. Battlefield Medic v1.0.0 is done. --Daniel Draco 10:03, 1 May 2007 (MDT)
That page doesn't seem to explain the difference between simple, moderate, and complex ages, nor do my google-fu and PH pdf. What is the difference? --Daniel Draco 15:02, 1 May 2007 (MDT)
An answer should be able to be found here. --Green Dragon 09:58, 4 May 2007 (MDT)

I have just made some formatting improvements, see if you like them. If you don't, feel free to revert. I don't mind. --Sam Kay 10:07, 9 September 2007 (MDT)

Name change[edit]

Is it possible to change the title of a page? Daniel Draco 12:17, 24 May 2007 (MDT)

Yup. Just press the "Move" tab, as I can see you have already done. Also, sorry for taking so long to respond... --Green Dragon 01:14, 1 June 2007 (MDT)

Combat and Spells[edit]

Even though this is not a combat focused class, it should have at least a few combat features, for when the party isn't damaged yet. I came up with some ideas, if there is activity in this class I'd love to discuss them, if there's not, I'll write them properly and add them.
1st: ability to open wounds in humanoids (1/round in 1st level, 2/round in 11th level)<br 2nd: ability to deliver coup de grace attacks as a standard action
Also, there are two 9th level spells known but only one in the list... I'll also put another spell there if there's no activity by the creator. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ElfsMaster (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts!

I haven't worked on this class in a while, though I will get back to it eventually. I appreciate your input, but please do not change anything. --Daniel Draco 05:58, 25 April 2008 (MDT)
Ok. I just asked because there are lots of classes abandoned, I don't want to change anything whose creator still wants. --ElfsMaster 01:37, 27 April 2008 (MDT)

Rating[edit]

Power - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because their HD are equivalent to a Bard (who has substantial attacks, spells per day, and spells known) while the class' BAB is that of the Sorcerer (who wields combative and defensive spells to make up for their lack of HP, attacks, and saves). In addition, you've allotted fewer skills than any other class, illogically adjusted their saves, and provided a spell list no longer than two spells per level (with some only possessing one spell). Their spells known are dramatically lower than any other class, their available spells have no defensive or offensive capability (which actually drew me to the class), and they do not possess the capability of buffing or raising. Master Healer (by 20th level) only provides a +7 to Heal checks. At level 1 (with feats) any class is able to have more than half that amount. Making Master Healer a bit more potent would not hurt the class at all, especially if they stay at d6 HD. Cure Poison can be done via a spell (Neutralize Posion) by 8th level. Having that ability 2/day contingent on whether or not the chirurgeon has a Healer's Kit is weakening to the class' foundation as a healer. If the ability were truly curative and available more expediently, it would make sense, but as it stands, a spell a few times a day is almost guaranteed to remove the poison. Speedy Recovery comes too late. By 6th level, Remove Disease is available to any healing class, and is almost guaranteed to remove any disease. By reducing the amount of hours required for the chirurgeon to be able to affect the disease at level eight, the chirurgeon is greatly lacking compared to any other healing class who's been entirely removing the affliction in 1 standard action (versus seven hours) for the past two levels. I suggest providing Speedy Recovery at a much earlier level since they have spent so much of their life dedicated to studying and healing afflictions, ailments, and wounds. Sterilize is interesting. At level 12, you're allowing the chirurgeon to do something nonmagically that other healing classes can do as an orison (0-level spell) for food and drink (in greater quantity than the ability) a fewer number of times per day than a first level healer of any other class could. In regards to performing the same action on objects and people, that's only a few levels away from first, and again, provided at a greater number of times per day at a lower level than twelve. This is an excellent backup ability (in case the chirurgeon blows through his four spells per day), but it is in no way comparable to any other class. --76.187.167.233 12:54, 5 May 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because some of the abilities seem incredibly weak for their level, though that may just be from the way it's written. Also, there is very little description of the intent of the class (or class description in general) providing no insight to the way they think or why. All we know about them is that they perform divine spells with arcane magic, and that they aren't required to heal everyone if they don't want to. By the way, I think spells like the detect array (Detect Alignment, Detect Lies, Detect Thoughts etc.) would benefit the class greatly for that purpose. There were some errors with grammar and punctuation, but I believe they've all been corrected. We should see more insight into the class. It's origins are obviously "lost to time", but what about their motivations or guilds of healers? Is there anything about the chirurgeon that suggests they should not resurrect people (since they have no raising spells), or that they should not increase their patients' abilities? Spells like Bear's Endurance could be considered a curative in that they would provide the chirurgeon's patient with more stability and more time to heal (if they're not going the spell casting route for heals). Also, knowing the magical workings of the class isn't necessary, but many of my players were curious how you came to create an arcane spell casting class that converts divine spells, but has no arcane spells. Speaking of divine spells: from what I gather of the little information available, it seems like the chirurgeons are an independent class that does not want to allow the credit of their healing to be presumed by divinity (a god or goddess), and that selfishness is a great reason for them to have (through decades or even centuries) converted divine magic to arcane. I'm curious why they did. --76.187.167.233 12:54, 5 May 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the formatting is very good. I think I saw an ability that wasn't on the table, and it was way below the spells known table. I wouldn't have noticed it, really, had I not been so confused about the spell list. LOL All the abilities should be kept together. The spells known table can join the main table, or find a home below the abilities altogether, and still be fine. I don't think I would mention Speedy Recovery's capability at level 29 unless this class was written for 4th edition. --76.187.167.233 12:54, 5 May 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because I love the concept of a class that does nothing but heal. I don't like that it doesn't heal as well as the cleric or druid, and I don't like that it has no defensive or combat capability. I think maybe their HD could be raised to the Cleric's d8 --or maybe they could benefit from armour and a larger list of weapons (all simple, one or two martial, etc.). Perhaps the class could have DR or even Fast Healing since they are supreme healers of sorts, IDK, just a thought to keep them alive longer than the round they enter combat. All in all, with a little work, I look forward to seeing a few of my players vying for this class at our table every week. --76.187.167.233 12:54, 5 May 2009 (MDT)

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