Discussion:Is hide in plain sight broken?
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Is hide in plain sight broken?
My DM and I have an ongoing arguement about the assassin's hide in plain sight ability. I take the desciption literally when it says I can hide while being observed. He says I can not attack and then hide. I would have to make a bluff check or some other distraction to hide in the shadows. Combined with spring attack, shouldn't I be able to come out of the shadows, attack, then move back into the shadows?
He can attack and then hide with the hide in plain sight ability, it is a move action to do so, whether he uses spring attack or not.
Thanks, I just don't understand what he finds "broken" about the ability. It's something that I can only assume has been play tested and released by WoTC. Hmm.
It's not broken.You have to make a hide check, and the hiding place would have to be within 15ft. for you to spring attack like that. The target of the attack would only have to move back to 20 or more feet away, and you couldn't do it. There is also the spot check to see you and the listen check to hear you.
ShadowyFigure 10:51, 9 April 2008 (MDT)
Its not broken! Your DM is unnecessarily complaining about a unbroken rule though it is really up to him if your allowed to do this or not.
I've just had a thought; you could hide in the darkness behind somebody within 15ft. of your hiding place, death attack them, and jump back into the darkness!
That's exactly what I wanted to do! I have a bunch of things to increase my base land speed (such as boots of striding and springing, how can anyone go without those?), and I wanted to do exactly that. My speed is like 55 ft. and I can not fully take advantage of that. Oh, well. He IS the DM. I'll have to break out "Edward Forrester" on some other occasion for that.
I'm curious to know whether the DM allows greater invisibility?
I've not yet tried to use it, though it is on my spell list. Seems kind of dumb that he'd allow that and not hide in plain sight, considering you, at the very least, get a spot check with the ability
TK-Squared 07:57, 11 April 2008 (MDT)
Technically, you still get a spot check with Invsibility. Your opponent just happens to get a +40 to his hide check if he's not moving, +20 if he is moving.
Fallen.Angel09 08:42, 24 April 2008 (MDT)
My own gaming group has had quite the discussion about this. Unfortunatly, the rules are very vague (trust me, I've looked) on this subject. The only information on the Hide in Plain Sight class feature is listed in the description of the ability, so you (or your DM) really just have to decide how it works. Here is how I handle it: The player cannot attack and then just hide right back where they were. They have to break line of sight. Assuming they can do this, then they can hide again. So say they run in, attack, and Spring Attack and keep moving. They move either into a corner or somewhere else where there is shadows and stop to hide, or they can run around a corner and hide. If they don't have Spring Attack, they swing, and then move to the shadows to make a hide. That's how we do. I hope you find it useful.
Compare hide in plain sight to a potion of invisibility.
Compare hide in plain sight to dust of disappearance or greater invisibility.
In comparison, it's a weak power for the level. At 12th level, they get a 3rd level wizard ability that works less well than invisibility.
Just a thought, Fallen.Angel09; I don't think the rule is vague. It says that you can hide, even while being observed, as long as you are within 10ft of shadows of some description. So, going by the description, it works in the same way as hide, except that if someone is observing you, you can still hide. Therefore, you can spring attack and hide without breaking line of sight. If you had to break line of sight first, then there would be no benefit to the ability, as that is how hide normally works!
I think the reason you DM thinks the ability is broken is that it can be frustrating for him to run. DM's can spend hours on an adventure and then the players come along with a nifty ability like that and ruin everything for them. A main villain that was supposed to be a major challenge but is brought down by an unseen assassin throwing huge damage and save vs paralysis or instant death can ruin that in a hurry.
Instead of declaring that the ability is broken he should instead throw situations at you where the ability is unusable or ineffective. An extremely bright room would do this just fine. No shadows= no Hide in Plain sight. It could even provide a negative to attack for everyone in the group from the glare. This way it isn't aimed solely at you. This approach requires moderation as it is a short step away from abuse.
Actually, I would think that as long as the assassin made a very convincing bluff check, he could still hide by standing behind the person he was trying to hide from. At that level, assassins should be sneaky enough to constantly shift around when the victim is turning so they can't see him. Not only do you get another chance for death attack, but it makes for quite an amusing story.
By the way, Mind Flayers are excellent monsters to throw at rogues abusing sneak attacks from the shadows.