Talk:Storyteller (5e Class)

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I need someone to format the magical storyteller class correctly while making as little changes to the class as possible. Thanks.

Would make a good bard archetype. Marasmusine (talk) 03:55, 13 February 2016 (MST)

Don't base a target limit on its hit dice. Use hit points or CR instead. Marasmusine (talk) 03:58, 13 February 2016 (MST)

So, I could potentially fill my demiplane with Tarrasques and drop them into battle whenever I feel like it? Or any number of powerful magical items? SirSprinkles (talk) 17:47, 1 March 2016 (MST)

The ability notes that you create this plane under Dm supervision and as such it is highly unlikely that any DM would allow that.

This class seems like it could use a bit of work. Bonus feats, I assume make it able to obtain feats from the book or the wiki, when really those should be used to improve the class. I think the hit dice rule is a bit overly complicated and it should change to CR. This class has some huge potential to be an endless source of creativity, it just seems unfinished to me at the moment. Strewberry98 (talk) 01:42, 5 August 2016 (MDT)

Here are some comments I'd like to make on this class:

  • Proficiencies. d6 Hit Dice and martial weapon proficiency? Does not blend too much, I should say?
  • Starting Equpiment. Define "fairy tales".
  • Feature Spread. You rarely get a class feature with an ability score improvement. The only exception I've ever seen was monk, and that feature was sort of super situational.
Plus, note that feats are optional in 5th editions, not to mention that a single feat is strong enough that you choose either an ability score improvement or a feat.
  • Character Call. So you can summon a CR 2 monster from the 1st level, and summon up to, what, CR 40 when you max out the spellcaster? Absurd ability check DC nonetheless, a 5 percent of summoning a mythic creature is too broken. (You can already summon a freakin' tarrasque at 15th level.)
  • Create Book. And you can reduce the check DC by 5. The concept is nice and all, but I think it could be a bit more improved. Like other suggested above, referring Hit Dice is discouraged.
  • Story Recall. Round counting is already discouraged, and I'm mildy surprised to see a day count outside of reviving a dead creature. Maybe there must be a way to improve this. Plus, if the book gives you a -5 DC to your summoning ability, why even bother not to have a book on person in the first place?
  • Item Call. There is no "an encounter" in 5th edition.
  • Impact Tale. As well as no "shaken" condition. Also, define "inspiration die". I know it's bard's feature, but just saying "that chap gets an insipration die" does not explain it all.
  • Climatic Call. "Easy terrain?" I suppose you mean "not a difficult terrain", right? Plus, why does the damage only applies to your "enemies" (I suppose this means "hostile creatures") when it's, frankly speaking, just a weather?
  • Fiction to Fact. Like casting a demiplane spell, right? I think there must be a way to improve this feature, otherwise it sounds a bit bland for a capstone.
  • Horror Genre. Just necrotic damage all over? I thought frightening others to submission or death would be more like it, otherwise the genre is more appropriate for "slasher". Plus, "features from horror novel" is bland, there are numerous topic that can make a decent horror novel - Edgar Allen Poe wrote a horror masterpiece out of a cat, for starters.
  • Romance Genre. And romance genre is, apparently, a flaming passion in a nutshell. Again, "romance" is too broad, a lawyer can conjure a zombie out of it. (The book is called Warm Bodies, by the way, if you're interested.)
  • Tragedy Genre. Okay, seriously - what is this enigmatic Skullduggery skill? What is a tragedy? (I once majored in English literature myself and I still have troubles categorizing a novel as a tragedy.)
  • Comedy Genre. I'm getting tired of making the same comments over and over, but this deserves a mention: force damage is, in a nutshell, the most broken damage type in D&D. Very few ever get resistance or immunity against force damage, and very few ever deals force damage in the first place. That's why the magic missile spell is never overlooked, even when it has the weakest damage output and a spell designed to negate it.
  • Heroic Genre. I'm done with making the same comment over and over. Just damage dealing features, ambiguous genre definition, and all.

Well, that's it for now. In short: This would maybe make an intersting bard archetype, as Marasmusine said above, but for now, it's poorly done. This class could be improved, but first, it must get out of the typical hack-and-slash mindset. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 01:38, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

So after my comments there were some changes on the page, but I'm not sure if all the suggestions here are even noticed at all. From what I see:

  • Quick Build. What is this mysterious "base bonus"? From what I remember, this thing didn't exist, even back in 3.5rd edition.
  • Hit Points and Proficiencies. Now it's d12 Hit Dice and proficiency to all weapons and armors. So that's barbarian's Hit Dice, fighter and paladin's weapon and armor proficiencies, and wizard's spellcasting feature. Also, "any magical weapon" is kinda meaningless, because (a) a storyteller already has proficiency in all weapons, which kinda means all magical weapons as well, and (b) if this means a storyteller can use any magical weapon that requires a specific prerequisite to attune, it's just too broken.
  • Equipment. Again, define "fairy tale". What kind of fairy tale exists in D&D campaign, anyway? It's an interesting subject, but if it's left out ambiguous like it currently is, chances are some determined munchkin will come up with a makeshift fairy tale containing every overpowered artifacts and monsters he/she needs.
So a storyteller is a "spontaneous caster" (see "Spellcasting" below) yet he/she needs a spellbook, huh? I see some conflict here.
50 gp? That allows you to buy pretty much everything you need. Heck, screw infinitely long journal, you can buy two books with that money.
  • Spellcasting. Great, now you can learn wizard's spells as well. As if the class wasn't overpowered enough.
There is no "spontaneous caster" in 5th edition, although I acknowledge it did exist back in 3.5rd edition. (One of my first D&D character was a 3.5rd sorcerer.) Plus, the table does not show how many spells you know.
  • Ability Score Improvement. As a rule of thumb, your ability score does not increase beyond 20 in 5th edition.
  • The rest of the class features. What my previous comments says, still lingers on. All combat, no other fluffs than creating things out of loosely defined fairy tales (which might be a fluff on its own, but from what I see, all a storyteller can do is just fight.) and many, many others.

In short: If you're reading this, you might want to see some comments on the storyteller class to improve it. D&D character is supposed to be, well, a character, not a hack-and-slash mechanism. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 16:16, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

I like the concepts, but the way this class is written, it wants to do a lot of things. All it is doing is hindering itself in the long run. It's not really just OP, but its focus is unguided. Its combat capabilities would distract the user from doing what this class should be about: be a storyteller. One whose focus is apparently to summon characters from any book. That by itself is pretty plain when you read how the things are written. And the rules behind each step aren't even things from 5e.

The following are my personal contributions to balance this class and make it far more focused to its role:

  • Remove its "Full Caster" status! If it summons characters from a book, all of the characters probably have a lot they can do on their own based on the story. But what's this? All you did was call the character and that's it? What happened to your "storytelling" talent? Why did you stopped there? (Keep the cantrips, though. But only have a choice from the Bardic Cantrips list.)
  • The "un-charismatic" storyteller. This class tries to look like a Super Bard, but without performance. HECK! It doesn't even use its charisma score at all! Except for a single niche Romance Genre-specific feature, and as a spellcasting power stat. Why does the article want to suggest a high score for Charisma again? Nothing. Just focus on Intelligence and Wisdom, given what the rest of the class currently focuses on. The next point is what I want to propose for this class:
  • Narrate the story! Books seem more like unlimited use scrolls that summon just to make meat shields that can do some stuff. It's very mindless. So, a suggestion that my GM once told me is to turn "Character/Item/Climactic Call" into "Sequential Narrative Calls". What he meant by that is: Summoned characters, items, or climate/environments are only possible "as the story of your book chosen unfolds". If the character is hurt in the story, the character you summoned is also affected. If the character grows up in the story, the summoned character is also aged. If a new character appears in the story, you can summon that, as well, following the current rules of summoning additional characters. Their Alignments, conduct, their own skills/attacks/feats, all as the story enfolds.
Same with items. If they break in the story when the turn comes to narrate that part, the item's duration is null and the item is dispelled from the world outside the book. This is not just to make the features more interesting, but also promotes ROLE PLAYING! If the narrator stops narrating, they all return to the book they came from. And with that comes the next part...
  • Bookmarks! What happens if you didn't finished the story when a fight is done? Would you really want to restart reading the story again from the start? What about wanting to keep the character from going into going into its demise because the story said so? Well. You can pause the story by simply marking the page with a bookmark to read later. The summoned character would then return to its book to rest its HP for a "last turn to live" situation in the next combat scenario you join. Bookmarks could also be enchanted with some magic that could do things like keep the character out for a duration based on your (Class Level x 5 in-game minute), until the bookmark burns itself out and disappears from the book. In which case, if you don't replace it before the time runs out (or use one chance of Story Recall within the day), both the character(s) and the story's progress would have to be read from the beginning to build the tension (and the character growth of each of the book's residents) again. Making enchanted bookmarks would require materials (a card, a feather, a ribbon, anything flat and clean enough to place between the pages) and long resting in towns or safe areas. They can be like the class's own resource, replacing the spell slots. Can only make and hold up to (3 x 4 class levels) Enchanted/Un-enchanted Bookmarks. And naturally, recalled stories being narrated don't benefit from bookmarks.

- That said, I still can't figure out what to do with the following:

  • The Genres! They really need work, right? They're all pretty plain, too basic. Does it imply that you are an author of each genre? They don't grant anything other than festive favors filled with assortments of other stats that just seem tacked on because they look similar to the theme. This class needs real archetypes (IF you can call this a set of archetypes). I might come up with something at a later date.
  • The darned class features and the leveling table! The way leveling is written, it allows the class to have both Ability Score Increases AND Bonus Feats! Not to mention flat increases for Intelligence and Wisdom by the end. With simply mentioning this, I don't think the author understood the rules of 5th Edition balance. Never mind the part about max ability score gain cap from leveling (It's 20, you fool! 30 is only if you gain them from other sources!). But the class features. The darned class features! "Create Book" is the biggest offender. By Level 18, it stresses that prices no longer matter. Just make the book for almost free? Then, there's Item Call: It doesn't seem to mention if it requires an action for each attempt, because it has no limit of use. Just a duration of 30 minutes per item called. And Climatic Call: Summon weather that only affects hostiles with damage per round, or terraform the field with terrain difficult to traverse only to hostiles? Terribly strong by itself, if use independently. And Impact Tale. By itself, it is MORE than enough than using the current Genre paths.
Item Call and Climatic Call can seem overpowered, but with my proposition for combining all three "call" features into one, it can pretty much balance itself. To a degree. Because for the items, without an enchanted bookmark, someone else on your team will have to wield it. Because Narration counts as a Concentration skill. Yeah. "Narration" would be the name of the Class Feature: The act of preparing to use the call actions. Can't call without the narrative, right? And finally, the other big problem...
  • The Class Proficiencies and the starting equipment! The Hit die, all weapons, armor, some tools, an infinite page journal that teleports back to your possession no matter what! And what's with the "Fairy Tales"? Is it like saying that you start with a children's book, or what? Also, what does simply "1 Genre" mean? A book of any one genre? If so, again, why "5 Fairy Tales"? Makes very little sense.
My Proposal to change the above:
Hit Die = 1d8
  • Weapons: All Simple Weapons, any 2 other weapons of choice (must be one-handed).
  • Armor: Light Armor, Medium Armor
  • Tools:Calligrapher's supplies
  • Saving Throws: Intelligence, Wisdom
  • Skills: History, Insight, and Performance.
  • (a) 1 [Any Subject or Genre] Book, any simple weapon of choice; (b) 3 Folktale Books, and a bag to hold them (Cap = 5)
  • (a) A set of Calligrapher's supplies; (b) 3 Enchanted Bookmarks
  • (a) Leather Armor; (b)Hide Armor
  • (a) Entertainer's Pack; (b) Explorer's Pack; (c) Scholar's Pack

Well, that's all I have for the time being. I hope that all I said helps this class grow to be balanced and better accepted. --Yarott (talk) 05:55, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

I really like this class' premise and I find it pretty cool. The spellcasting does make it overpowered, however, and in my experience, it is imperative not to get ASI AND features. Maybe, change the spellcasting to a third caster or eliminate it completely and replace the chart section with number of characters able to be summoned. It sounds like a start.--Yanied (talk) 15:25, 10 March 2018 (MST)

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