Talk:Ritual Converter, 2nd Variant (5e Feat)

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Balancing issues[edit]

Hi there, I'm the guy who cleaned the page a little just a while ago. I don't think I understand the last changes you've made.

  • First of all, why did you remove the wording tag? It is nice to see that my wording contribs where well received but I think the wording is still a bit funky.
  • Secondly, why did you remove the needsbalance tag? Someone pointed out an issue (unlimited healing spells) and that issue has yet to be addressed. In fact, the feat got buffed.
  • On the level progression, feats are not supposed to scale with level. A limit to the number of spells calculated with your proficiency bonus is not a problem but giving them "At xth level, ..." scaling? That's a big no-no.
  • Finally, I don't think you have understood why not every spell has the ritual tag. It seems like your intention is to cast spells like Fireball (5e Spell) as a ritual, which is fine, but this feat would allow for unlimited spamming of spells such as Heal (5e Spell) and Finger of Death (5e Spell) (or other undead creation spells). This possibility opens up space for some incredibly broken situations and synergies.

And with that said, I'm going to add the needsbalance tag again (the wording tag can wait for the moment), at least until the addressed issues are solved. Ah, I don't quite get the "at most half of your level" limit, seeing that the fullcaster spell slot progression is already similar to that (1st level spells at 1st level, 2nd at 3rd level, 3rd at 5th...), but that's a minor problem. Draelm (talk) 10:31, 1 March 2021 (MST)

Replying to @Draelm & my pov of @someone404[edit]

  • You can't spam rituals. Ritual casting adds 10 minutes to any spell, and can't be casted at higher levels.
  • I added a limit of uses.
  • I was actually editing the page prior to your 1st edit. Which didn't save, so I started over. Then liked your edit with wording.
  • The idea of the Prerequisite of "4th level Character" is for to put the limit of other homebrew (on site or in general) and that human choice of getting a feat at 1st level.
  • Fireball or spells like such, are not really meant for this. It's an option, but isn't really meant for it.
  • "unlimited spamming", can't spam a ritual in combat (if you are referring to like cure wounds). Also I put a usage limit, with charges. Maybe charges isn't the best term, but it's understandable.

  • To @Someone404, you undid the 966-Bytes I did. Writing "Seriously?". (I guess that's the summary thing)

That's messed up, especially since I created this page/variant/sheet, since I don't like editing somebody elses.
@Someone404 You could've written in discussion, like what I'm initially replying to, in here.....
Don't go removing "4th level Character" or basically everything. Since you can add tags, like initially...

  • I'm ok with wording being edited for reading and understanding purposes, but not mass deleting/undoing. I'm not an English Major, and I missed a lot of 12th grade school days, and English was my worse class that year.

[edited in since I forgot] --RedrumZombies (talk) 13:26, March 1, 2021‎ (EST)

Why did you remove the needsbalance without any changes? Someone404 (talk) 11:28, 1 March 2021 (MST)
Maybe spam is the wrong word, but it is still free healing. You could pop out six Cure Wounds rituals in the time it takes you to do a short rest, consuming no spell slots. That’s not even the worst offender, with things like Animate Dead, you can maintain your control over your zombies without spending those precious Fireball slots. Their concerns are legitimate. --SwankyPants (talk) 11:31, 1 March 2021 (MST)

-To @someone404, because I was adding stuff. I did changes... You removed them. Look at the edit history of the page.

-To @SwankyPants, to point out I never used something like animate dead. Many spells I haven't. I know there is that spirit healing spell, I think druid spell?
Maybe it needs a list of spells banned from converting or something of a limit to them? But Cure wounds was 1 of the spells I was interested in writing what I have.
Since I've ran into too many situations of me & other players wanting/needing to use something like cure wounds on NPCs, and roleplay in general.
Since rituals take time, this also introduces the chance of someone being a doctor/mage doctor in their actual background and make sense.
I also almost never see players use Hit dice for recovering HP. Maybe because I haven't done the homebrew of Hit dice work for LR and during SR you can't use them.
But again, this is homebrew, a DM must approve it. If it wouldn't fit in, then they'd say no...
All I can say is a ban on certain spells or limit to uses of like 1 or 2, can work. Otherwise the thought of the feat won't work for you ever.
RedrumZombies (talk) 13:50, March 1, 2021‎ (EST)

Hold on, you made this feat for the explicit purpose of making things like cure wounds a ritual, but you made a page and didn’t just use Ritual Converter (5e Feat), the feat made to allow you to turn 1st level spells into rituals? Like cure wounds? --SwankyPants (talk) 11:57, 1 March 2021 (MST)

@SwankyPants, I made it because:
-How simple the 1st and 2nd was.
-The negative of never casting the spell normally from the 2nd.
-10 days per level thing... Too long for 1 spell.
-The Prerequisite: A spellbook. Wizards and a specific Warlock only?!?
-I didn't like the choice to learn all the spells you'd want.

I only liked the idea of making a spell ritual. I spell I had in mind was Cure wounds. Not "for the explicit purpose of making things like cure wounds a ritual".
Example of other spells I had in mind: Longstrider, Arcane Lock, Goodberry, Calm Emotions, Darkvision, Knock, Detect Evil and Good, Lesser Restoration, Expeditious Retreat, etc
RedrumZombies (talk) 14:24, March 1, 2021‎ (EST)

1st and 2nd what? Versions? How was simplicity bad? The less work it is to deal with, the easier it is to run. Minimal things like duration and cost can be houseruled to be lower. Any class can gain ritual casting, there's an entire other feat for it. This also allows you to convert any spell you want, that's why we're here in the first place.
I understand the examples, but you understand my meaning, right? The original version acomplishes exactly what you seem to want, low level spells you can cast as rituals. Minor things like timings and consequences don't need a new page. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:33, 1 March 2021 (MST)
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