Talk:Lost Dragon (5e Class)
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Please clarify if bite is it's own action, and/or a melee weapon attack or what. I feel that it shouldn't also work with Extra Attack, so shouldn't be a substitute for a normal weapon attack. Marasmusine (talk) 07:32, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
I made some more changes, I am new to the community so I am not sure how this works. Can you check and see if everything fits?
- Okay, here's where it's lacking:
- Two sections in the preload that were removed: Quick build and Multiclassing. These aren't essential to play as the class, but they're easy enough to write so no point in not having them.
- There are no features at 9th, 14th, or 17th level. I would be sad if I levelled up and got nothing.
- Underwhelming 1st level. My big feature is that I can make an attack that deals 1d10 damage. Every other fighting class gets that with a regular weapon.
- No class options. Not essential, but would be nice to have. Either an archetype, or at least a feature where you can select from several benefits. At the moment one lost dragon is the same as any other lost dragon. Marasmusine (talk) 08:49, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
The first and last things you said I don't know how to do, the stuff in the middle I will work on.
Oh, for the last bit you mean different paths the you can take as a lost dragon.
- two sections still missing, features were added but where's the flavor? 14 and 17 are just spells given, I don't think this is the right idea. 1st level still lackluster. still no class options. It would appear that there's been no improvement on the suggestions.
- Bite, Claw, Tail, Wing attack all seem to make the class clunky where as a real dragon with multiattack they flow or you feel good doing it. Things need rewritten. Would love to see BW sooner than 10th level. Like, make a column for progression. Change and later true dragon mention true form, what is your true form?? there's no references, hints, links, descriptions of what you transform too. The rest of the traits I've mentioned one way or another. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 13:50, 5 July 2018 (MDT)
Bestial Rage and Attacks
Bestial Rage has no time restraints, or limit to uses. Its like Rage but infinitely better. Giving it say, 2 uses and it last only a minute would be much better.
It would be simpler to say that your hands and mouth become melee weapons with x properties rather than reinventing the wheel. It would also specify what type of damage they do, because currently it does not.
- Changed Bestial rage to limited uses and duration. Still seems pretty powerful with advantage on all strength attack. Maybe that feature gets added at a later level.--ADragon (talk) 12:31, 16 July 2018
Much of the other criticism above still applies, but there's a few things I want to emphasize in detail.
- At 1st level, this class is weaker than other classes like barbarian or fighter which fill a similar role—at this it essentially only gains decent proficiencies and an ability to wield one very specific attack that is initially weaker than two-handed weapons wielded by first-party melee-oriented classes.
- At 2nd level it copies barbarian's rage, which gives it a little bit of purpose even if it's still lacking in versatility and power compared to other classes. But things start to get crazy after here.
- What's the point of "Extra Attack"? All of this class's damage comes from taking specific class-exclusive actions, not the Attack action. If this is merely an oversight and this class is meant to be able to make multiple bite attacks... well... it goes from being "kind of underpowered and purposeless" to "game-breakingly powerful."
- If this class only ever got two attacks per turn, it might be alright in terms of damage output. But it doesn't. It gets four attacks like a fighter does except gets them earlier, and its bite attack keeps increasing as levels progress. At 18th level this class is incredibly broken. Under normal rules a 20th level fighter can make four attacks that average a little over 50 if all of them hit; this tops out the damage rankings before finite resources like spell slots get involved. (See Class Damage (5e Guideline).) Meanwhile, two levels lower, this class can make four attacks that average about 86 damage if all of them hit—and thanks to Bestial Rage these will probably all have advantage.
- To put 18th level into perspective, transforming into a ancient red dragon (which by the way that's a thing you can do? indefinitely? in case that alone doesn't set off alarms?) actually reduces your attacking capability. Such a creature has +17 to hit with three attacks averaging to a sum of only 69, which is statistically quite inferior to +11 (with advantage) that averages out to 86.
Tl;dr - This class is very underpowered and overpowered at different states of progression. If anyone wants to improve it, it would be worth consulting the 5e Class Design Guide and comparing what this class can do to first-party classes at each level. - Guy 18:43, 16 September 2018 (MDT)