Talk:KirbySpawn (5e Race)

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  • facepalm* Oyyyyy... Why didn't I guess they would've made one of these, too? Well... *sigh* Lemme see what I can do... Knowlessman (talk) 19:44, 21 February 2018 (MST)
...Should I give it a Spit Out trait as well, or just leave it? Knowlessman (talk) 21:36, 21 February 2018 (MST)
...Uhhh, 1. Kirby can fly, not just float, and PC races are allowed to have flying speeds. Also being able to counterspell Kirby's floating is just stupid. 2. It doesn't specify how to "attempt" the Swallow, nor does it say what happens to the swallowed creature. Also I think Swallow should do at least some damage, even if it isn't acid damage. Knowlessman (talk) 23:15, 13 April 2018 (MDT)
You've misunderstood the trait. It is a spell-like ability, not a spell and as such cannot be counterspelled. In regards to flying Kirby's flight is limited and the introduction of flying per level 5 breaks the standard for which most adventuring modules set allowing for unforeseen issues to occur in the adventure, in addition to a number of other issues. Consider reading the Flying Races (5e Guideline). Finally, given the way swallow and inhale work adding an additional action and a saving throw just for the sake of damage doesn't work, and given that Kirby's swallow didn't do any damage to the swallowed creature it inaccurately represents the ability. It is important that you don't sacrifice mechanical balance while trying to create a derivative work. --ConcealedLight (talk) 11:19, 14 April 2018 (MDT)
Fair enough on the spell-like ability point, but Kirby isn't limited to slowing his fall or gliding in any of the games he appears in (even in Smash he can gain altitude), and I somewhat doubt any DM allowing Kirby in a DnD game in the first place is going to be bothered by a flying speed, especially such a slow one. Normally, "It's homebrew, nobody expects it to be balanced" is not a valid argument, but in this case... A DM that doesn't allow Aarakocra isn't going to allow Kirby anyway, and the flight speed isn't going to be why they don't allow Kirby. Finally, Kirby's Swallow does actually do a relatively small amount of damage in the Smash games, and is lethal in his own games. Knowlessman (talk) 19:14, 14 April 2018 (MDT)
That isn't a suitable argument in this case. The wiki has its own standards for balance and a system for dealing with unbalanced content. Until you come up with a suitable argument for why I've reverted your reversion of my own edit and I request that you not undo it this time. --ConcealedLight (talk) 06:18, 15 April 2018 (MDT)
I thought the outcome of the whole Musicus Meter mess wasn't that it was to be used as a hard standard. Dungeons and Dragons is not a competitive game, and even if it were, we are not affiliated with the people who own it. We are obliged to host content that is usable, but not compelled to only host content that complies with an arbitrary measure of fairness. To give an already-silly, and already-rules-bending, character creation option a flight speed does not intrinsically harm its potential for leading to a fun game experience, but to replace a character's ability to fly with an ability to control its fall for the sake of "competitive balance," particularly in a game that is not competitive, is unnecessary and annoying. I can see multiple players passing up trying to use this content because they get the idea that we're more about balance than fun, and multiple DMs saying to said players, "I thought Kirby could fly? Hell with it, you have a fly speed of whatever feet." Knowlessman (talk) 09:03, 18 April 2018 (MDT)
At no point do I say anything about the Musicus Meter, nor do I talk about whatever you mean by "competative balance". --ConcealedLight (talk) 15:12, 18 April 2018 (MDT)
My argument for the race having a flying speed is that 1. the character it's inspired by is capable of indefinite flight, and 2. it does not make the race so powerful as to make it overpowered, especially if it's a low speed, and 3. even if it starts edging close to being overpowered, the comedic nature of its concept means that it isn't likely to be allowed in a campaign anybody's taking seriously enough to care. Also, you talk of "standards for balance" and "a system for dealing with unbalanced content" as if we're... Wikipedia or something. As opposed to a site hosting variant rules for a game of make-believe where the referee's official rulebook says "Bend the rules wherever it'd make it more fun." Kirby is able to fly. Being able to fly is not, in itself, prohibitively overpowered. Kirby is silly enough that if you allow him in your game, you're not worried about overpowered. Knowlessman (talk) 17:58, 18 April 2018 (MDT) EDIT: Also a spell-like ability is a magical effect, which can be dispelled. Kirby's flight is (pseudo)biology, not magic. Ha. Knowlessman (talk) 18:04, 18 April 2018 (MDT)
I disagree with those points. However, instead of repeating what I've already said I'm willing to compromise by giving them a limited flying speed of 15/20 feet and if they end the round while flying they fall. Thoughts? --ConcealedLight (talk) 04:19, 19 April 2018 (MDT)
What about limiting it by saying it only lasts as long as you hold your breath, since that's kinda vaguely what it looks like Kirby is doing in the games? "As long as you have nothing in your mouth, you can use your action to gain a flying speed of 15 ft. You keep this flying speed until you open your mouth (no action required), run out of breath, or take any damage." Something like that. A Kirby with a Conmod of 2 can keep flying this way for 3 minutes, but hopefully the damage thing is enough of a nerf. Also, Kirby has never been a fast flier, so 15 ft is fine. Knowlessman (talk) 14:03, 19 April 2018 (MDT)
That would use minute counting and the minutes wouldn't be standard either so I'd prefer the more recent revision. --ConcealedLightThis user is an administrator (talk) 14:47, 19 April 2018 (MDT)
How about the character can fly for as long as the player can hold their breath. Marasmusine (talk) 15:08, 19 April 2018 (MDT)
Yes. Where is my IRL (5e Variant Rule)? --ConcealedLightThis user is an administrator (talk) 15:13, 19 April 2018 (MDT)
Better than not having one I guess, but I still don't like the Feather Fall thing. Kirby's buoyancy isn't a magical effect; it shouldn't have the trappings and drawbacks of one. I'd say either just copy Feather Fall's wording or remove it and leave the flying part. Slowing his fall isn't one of Kirby's main shticks anyway; he has an umbrella ability for that. Knowlessman (talk) 21:35, 19 April 2018 (MDT)
Done. --ConcealedLightThis user is an administrator (talk) 03:21, 20 April 2018 (MDT)
Taking a glance back at this can of worms 'cause I just thought of something a year late: If I slap the April Fools tag on it, which it should really have had since the start, then can it have a (relatively) simple flying speed? Knowlessman (talk) 00:02, 15 September 2019 (MDT)
New plan: 1. Remove "and you have a flying speed of 15 ft" from the Speed part, since it's not accurate anyway; can't fly with a full gullet, and that suggests they can. 2. Reword Lighter than Air to "If gullet is empty, aren't wearing heavy armor, and aren't encumbered, can use action to gain a flying speed of 15 ft; you must use your action each round to maintain this effect, and if you don't, you start falling at end of turn." End of trait description (Kirby stops floating when he attacks, but can attack then float again if he's quick enough, i.e. if he uses a bonus action, has Action Surge or Haste, etc). Aye? Knowlessman (talk) 00:37, 15 September 2019 (MDT)
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