Talk:Card Slinger, Variant (5e Class)

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Problems to Address[edit]

So, to start, how do enemies avoid the AoE damage? Is it a Dex save or is it included in the Con save? Does the King protect from AoE damage as well? Why discard to gain advantage? Does that just increase the save DC? Do cards still explode next turn unless charged with a bonus action? How do the cone and line effects explode? What direction do they go in? I'll add more as I think of them. Daedalus (talk) 11:53, 5 October 2018 (PST)

Enemies are allowed to roll Constitution saving throws. It is mentioned in the part about suits, though placing the information with the card wouldn't be a bad idea.
The King only protects from the AoE damage that the King card would do.
Discarding removes a card from the deck. You could potentially remove a card you'd really like to use but now you must rest before being able to use it. Honestly though, I find this benefit too strong, a player can discard "every turn" to gain advantage.
The way or direction of the AoEs is decided by the player, from the place of the card slinger.
I hope that helps with those questions. There are a lot of things I've found needing attention so you are much appreciated bringing up talking points. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 13:38, 5 October 2018 (MDT)
Okay, so the the King saves from the damage but not the effect? I agree with the discard being too strong. Maybe limit it to only doing it a number of times equal to Char mod between rests. Also, for cones and lines, would that mean the Card Slinger is less likely to be caught in the blast? It could instead always go off originating from the card and exploding towards its point where it was thrown, making the Card Slinger have to move as they would with a radius and it helps with the "glass cannon" balance of the class. Daedalus (talk) 12:53, 5 October 2018 (PST)
I misunderstood the question for the King. I thought it was somehow asking about AoE damage from other spells. The saving throw would negate the effect and halve the damage per normal saving throw & damage rules. I am more convinced this verbiage should be included with the card.
You make a great point about the origin of the effects and I will make sure that is added to the card effect/explanation. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 14:15, 5 October 2018 (MDT)

New issue: for Stone Faced, it doesn't specify how it interacts with Expertise. Also, face cards no longer state that their effects don't stack. Is this intentional? Daedalus (talk) 12:52, 5 October 2018 (PST)

You can't double your proficiency bonus twice. So if someone tried doing the rogue thing and doubling up, you can't. I'll have to review edits about the face cards. Some page vandalism did happen at one time. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 14:15, 5 October 2018 (MDT)

Gambler's luck currently does very little as you don't roll to attack with the cards. We could replace it but it would be nice to find a way to make direct attacks with the cards. Daedalus (talk) 00:26, 13 October 2018 (MDT)

Do you think making it attack rolls would work? BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:56, 13 October 2018 (MDT)
Correction; since this page's creation, the cards have been stated to be ranged attacks --PopsFortuitous (talk) 11:49, 13 October 2018 (MDT)
The problem is that they are all just AoE so you never make an attack roll, so crits almost never come up in combat. Daedalus (talk) 19:22, 13 October 2018 (MDT)
I also just noticed that Gambler's luck only works with melee attacks. I'll look into an alternative to this as it is rare that a cardslinger will make melee attacks given that throwing cards is the entire point of the class. I'm thinking Uncanny Dodge. I'm noting this here in case anyone thinks it would be better as something else. Daedalus (talk) 11:25, 17 October 2018 (MDT)
I removed "melee" so it should work for any one handed attack, does that work or still wanting to place a new feature there? BigShotFancyMan (talk) 11:48, 17 October 2018 (MDT)

Should the saves instead be Dex so that the Cardslinger has a better chance of escaping them? Daedalus (talk) 00:26, 13 October 2018 (MDT)

What are they trying to escape? Sorry I don't understand this question. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:56, 13 October 2018 (MDT)
I think they're talking about avoiding the aoe damage if the explosion is close to the card slinger --PopsFortuitous (talk) 11:45, 13 October 2018 (MDT)
Correct. Currently the AoE effects are all Con saves to avoid an explosion of damage. Should they instead all be Dex to make more sense and make it easier for the cardslinger to avoid their own explosions? Daedalus (talk) 19:22, 13 October 2018 (MDT)

Please feel free to touch things up. I do not own the page and you all have brought up great points. I'd love to see collaboration on this and what we all come up with. I just don't have the time to edit everything each time we find an issue sadly :( So let us edit this page together! BigShotFancyMan (talk) 20:39, 13 October 2018 (MDT)

What happens when you wear armor in which you are not proficient? Normally you can't cast spells but the cards are not spells. You also never roll to attack so disadvantage doesn't really make sense. How should we deal with this? I honestly have no idea. Daedalus (talk) 01:43, 3 November 2018 (MDT)

"As an action, a card slinger can make a ranged attack with a drawn card that has a range of 30 ft. The creature hit by the card takes the initial damage, and those in the area of effect must roll a saving throw according to the suit." this implies that you must hit at least one creature with the card before the aoe effect. Then again, the card slinger CAN choose to use their Cha instead of Dex for the attack roll, so disadvantage can be mitigated that way. I would suggest that the dex throws for suit effects also allow for the reduction of damage taken, thus making attacking with the cards preferable to lobbing them into a space between creatures. --PopsFortuitous (talk) 12:29, 3 November 2018 (MDT)

I've noticed that there's no real mechanical way for the card slinger to charge a card with a timer, and leave it somewhere to explode like in the class description (blowing apart a door without throwing the card), should that feature be re-introduced? --PopsFortuitous (talk) 12:29, 3 November 2018 (MDT)

Technically you charge it as a bonus action to make it go off that round, otherwise it explodes at the beginning of your next turn. This encourages you to run away during your turn so that you aren't in range when it goes off. Outside of combat this translates to 6 seconds where the card is charging before it goes off. Daedalus (talk) 13:19, 3 November 2018 (MDT)

Ideas for Changes[edit]

In order to make Gambler's Luck more viable, there could be a class ability that allows you to shoot cards off the top of your deck one-handed at a reduced range or maybe with disadvantage. This is a thing that can actually be done with real life playing cards and would allow the player to switch back and forth between throwing cards and attacking with a one-handed weapon. Does anyone else think this is a good idea? If so, where should it be fit in the class? Daedalus (talk) 13:36, 3 November 2018 (MDT)

I am not sure whether it is good or bad. Make the change and let’s see what it looks like. I also think you bring up a good idea on Rosewater’s talk page for the effects of the cards. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 21:19, 4 November 2018 (MST)
In regards to Rosewater's page, I think that change makes more sense in his variant. His currently only damages a single target while this one has been balanced around the cardslinger risking being caught in their own blast. Daedalus (talk) 00:10, 10 November 2018 (MST)
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