Talk:Vorpal on the Loose (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

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Math error[edit]

"but send in 10 of thes guys who strike first and wham the dragon has a 50% chance of getting killed."

Actually, you are right about 1/20 for the first one, but the second has a 19/20 (assumes the first failed because otherwise you wouldn't have to send the second) x 1/20 = 19/400. Namely, see: Binomial Distribution.

Now we can figure out what the prob of getting 0 successes is with 10 attempts:

=(10 choose 0) x (1/20)^0 x (1-1/20)^10

=1x1x(19/20)^10

=0.598736939

59.9% chance to fail.

That gives a 0.401263061 or a 40.1% chance to succeed.

Suppose you send 20 guys. You have less than a 100% chance! You in fact have a 0.641514078 or a 64.2% chance of succeeding.

With 100 level 1's with vorpal daggers you have a 99.4% chance (assuming they all hit). --Aarnott 17:20, 13 May 2008 (MDT)

On this note, if you want to optimize this (I don't know artificers at all), find an artificer spell that allows you to summon a creature that uses weapons and then use the vorpal spell. The higher the BAB on the summon, the better. I think that elementals can wield a weapon with a -4 penalty for non proficiency, so I could easily see a full BAB available. All you do is create a horde of autokill creatures. The higher level ones will also be able to survive attacks. --Aarnott 11:01, 14 May 2008 (MDT)
Moreover the author forgot that a lvl-1 character will need a second 20 to actually activate the Vorpal ability (a natural 20 is the only way to get the AC of the dragon for a 1-lvl character). So the possibility of defeating the dragon in one hit is: (1/20)*(1/20) = 0.0025, less than 1%. Assuming a party of 10 Vorpal guys the chance become about 2-3% and even with 100 vorpal guys it is not greater than 23%. The real question now: since there actually few goods ideas in the article, are we allowed to fix those blatant mistakes? The article might become interesting if we change the introduction and the remove the final dialogue-like notes. For example the idea of the Better Lucky Than Good feat is nice. Ezzetabi 07:10, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Optimization to prevent failure[edit]

It's a bit of a one-trick pony normally, which is unfortunate because a lot of stuff is immune to critical hits (especially when you start actually getting vorpal weapons in-game). For that reason I wouldn't suggest Monk or Ranger at all, but just tack the vorpal archery onto a regular Cleric Archer. (You can, and should, Persistent Spell a haste on yourself for obvious reasons, as well as that spell that gives you a fighter bonus feat for Rapid Shot). Now deal stupid amounts of damage with the added threat of vorpal on a critical (which you'll be doing fairly often). What could be better? Surgo 18:23, 22 September 2008 (MDT)

DM Counters[edit]

Undead, critical immune monsters, fortification. All wonderfully qualified and available sooner and more easily than vorpal is. Have a friend with vorpal you don't trust? Get moderately fortified armor. I think thats why it was allowed, and the fact you uncle has never had a DM who allowed it may be either because he had a lot of DMs who didn't plan very well, or he didn't change DMs very often and they didn't like it for one reason or another. I know plenty of groups/DMs that have never even given vorpal a second though because they all now how to snuff it out while its still young. -Valentine the Rogue 13:28, 20 December 2008 (MST)

-Vorpal does not get countered by crit immunity, as it does not trigger on a critical hit, but a natural 20. I realize it says you need to confirm it, but: "Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off." If crit immunity was affected vorpal, why list three types of creature immune to critical hits and explain what happens in the event you trigger vorpal against them? My point being, critical immunities shouldn't stop vorpal unless the DM decides to house rule it.

In any event, Deathstrike Bracers, MIC pg93, let you ignore creatures' crit immunity. Available even before fortification (though doesn't affect it). Not that it's practical to buy deathstrike bracers just in the off chance you need to use your vorpal weapon on a vampire.

spring attack[edit]

be a monk/barbarian 1, take spring attack, two-wep fighting, improve it, greater it, combat reflexes, improved critical (kama), be a large creature and BAM. if you take that to ECL 20 youll have (if the creature you used had ECL bonus 6, like ogres) a flurry of blows attack bonus of 10/10/10/5. dual wield vorpal kamas, use spring attack, and thats 4 hits with 10% chance of one-shotting the enemy each turn. with the combined movement bonuses of barbarian and monk, the ogre would have a base land speed of 80 ft. that should make sure that you can reach your target and move to safety. and when sombody move up to you, you get an attack of oppurtity with 10% chance of killing them. thats a little more than the aforementioned 40.1 percent. PER TURN. of course, only if the enemy is stupid enough, and is bothered by the loss of his head.

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