Talk:Temporal Lord (3.5e Prestige Class)
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 Broken + Plagiarism?
Even as a primarily epic level prestige class, this is too strong. Regeneration 10? Still gaining spell every level in addition to haste (permanent), slow, and time stop? Also, you straight up stole Jump from Rith's Jumper class down to almost the exact wording. -- Jota 10:29, 21 April 2009 (MDT)
- The ability to do a lot of crap like "Stop" without a save is pretty ridiculous. Also, I'm not really sure what the point of True Immortality is at first level (the wording there is also stolen exactly from LD's class, but honestly "plagiarism" doesn't matter here because everything on the wiki is licensed under the GFDL). Surgo 10:32, 21 April 2009 (MDT)
- True that, true that. The balance point still stands, however, and it is undeniably bush league to do something like that even if this is a wiki. -- Jota 12:53, 21 April 2009 (MDT)
- Hum yeah for Plagiarism I don't mind, but gaining the level 20 Immortalist benefit (True Immortality) at level 18th is kinda an insult to my class :P. Oh nevermind that, stop is the true broken thing in the class. And Immortal Body is gained after True Immortality... it strange. --Lord Dhazriel 13:13, 21 April 2009 (MDT)
- Wow, this class appears to be the ultimate achivement in laziness. All of it's class features are merely copied and pasted from other classes. True Immortality and Immortal Body are both from Lord Dhazriels Immortalist and Telepathy is from his Telepath class. Slow, Stop, and Time Stop are all from Sarrows Time Mage. And Jump is from (both) my Jumper, and the Time Walker class I made. Also, the fluff seems, to me, to imply that they are supposed to be better than everyone else, why, I don't understand. Right now it is simply an blight to look at, and shows absolutely no originality (i.e. a 0 on flavor). (is that enough to add the delete template?) → Rith (talk) 21:03, 21 April 2009 (MDT)
- Yes, 0 on anything is enough reason to add the delete template. Surgo 21:10, 21 April 2009 (MDT)
- Temporal Lords are powerful spellcasters, they transcended mortality in a way few would dare to imagine. masters of time and death, they no longer can die. An Temporal Lord manage to keep his flesh and mortality's pleasures. Necromancer envy them, common mortal fear them they are truly marvelous example on how magic can screw up nature.
- Immortalist are powerful spellcasters, they transcended mortality in a way few would dare to imagine. The master of their art irrevocably erased death, no longer they can even die. An immortalist manage to keep his flesh and mortality's pleasures. Necromancer envy them, common mortal fear them they are truly marvellous example on how magic can screw up nature.
- Well Rith... you should move this comment on my class talk. let me look for more copy/pasta.--Lord Dhazriel 21:11, 21 April 2009 (MDT)
- Ok it literally a copy/pasta of mt class + copy pasta of some abilities of other classes. Just wow...--Lord Dhazriel 21:13, 21 April 2009 (MDT)
 hello so i'm rellly new here and this is the first thing i made
and let me tell you you guy are not making me feel welcome. i fist found this site after getting back in to dnd after 10 years. 2 day ago i started reading and found a log of cool ideas and alot that were really stupid. i was under the impression blending stuff was ok "project copyrights" say's copying was ok and in all my reading i say lot's of stuff that was the same idea. so for that i'm sorry it was easier to copy and paste then make new 1: i dont understand all the codes used 2: my spelling and gammer is Shit. in my reading i saw Lord Dhazriel's Immortalist and got the idea for a Doctor Who (time lord). and in all the reading i used what i had found to make it in the last 24 hours (to tell you the truth i dident even know this page was here. i dident see i had comments sorry i'm the newbie. so i guess copying some ones idea is bad so what do i do to fix it ? i do aggree with turning down the regen it's a bit storng for a Time lord i thik getting red it it all together is good and lvl i need to make it so you have to be lvl 20+ to start it was a bad idea to make it 9th lvl spells
 Balance Issue
The class is definitely too strong, combining the powerful class features of many classes. Let see level by level progression.
- 1. True Immortality: The Immortalist capstone, this ability was made to be pitted against CR 20 creature, the TL gain at 18th level. Why taking levels in Immortalist at all when you gain their ultimate benefit at first level?
- 2. Jump: The Jumper and Time Walker base class ability. Nothing much unbalancing, since a wizard temporal lord would be able to do much much better using his own magic. But still a handy ability.
- 3. These ability come from the Time Mage, they are very very strong.
- 4. Time Stop: A very handy ability, perhaps a bit too handy to handle to a spellcaster. It was made for the non-spellcaster and giving it to a spellcaster mean extra buffing time without wasting a spell. Telepathy: The telepath ability, again it wasn't supposed to fall into the hand of a full spellcaster. A wizard temporal lord can boost the DC of his 9th level spells to the point of bullshit. Normally the telepath got weak spellcaster so it don't matter much. The ability is even stronger that the telepath's anticipate.
- 5. Immortal Body: Basically gain what was left at 1st level. In epic levels it not much of a problem.
Verdict: The class is overpowered, it possess many abilities meant for non-casters and some are even stronger than original abilities. Here a constructive criticism of your work, try toning it down (god it hard to make me say that) and perhaps giving it unique abilities. Many abilities are not level appropriated and thus it require quite a bit of rebuilding.--Lord Dhazriel 07:11, 22 April 2009 (MDT)
- Actually, you now need to be level 27 to gain access to this class (Knowledge(Arcana) 30 ranks requirement). --TK-Squared 07:18, 22 April 2009 (MDT)
- Thank for pointing this out TK, I never actually saw that. Then it bring another problem.... the save and bab aren't epic standard (I openly hate epic standard but still). --Lord Dhazriel 07:20, 22 April 2009 (MDT)
- It seem I never the prerequisite changed, well past level 20... balance become... well truthfully balance don't matter anymore. Everything go crazy there. Secondly, why the prerequisites so high? Few games go up to 27, higher prerequisites isn't a balancing factor. Well anyway if this is a epic prestige class it need have it bab and save removed (as the standard epic PrC formatting). --Lord Dhazriel 08:08, 22 April 2009 (MDT)
- i did some editing last night i'm a night owl. the reason it's set so high at the moment just some quick math. start with a warmage/wizzard 13 lvls then 1 lvl of jumper 1 lvl of time mage then immoralist then 6 more of time mage and time walker and your at 32 you would have something that would be so powerful and with all the same thing ability's (minus the telepathy but you could solve that with spells and permanency). plus you have all the extra thing's that come with the classes that a "time lord does not have". so at time lvl 27 seamed like a good random number i guess it could be lower. make it 22 by the time your done with the 5 lvl your at 27. i tried to turned some of the stuff down (made stop and slow have a save) turned the regen down (was thinking about makeing it fast healing 5 ) made the time stop lower rounds. in two weeks i'm going to be playing a epic game starting at 20 so the chance to get to use this mite happen but in all fair ness i was really never intending anyone to REALLY play this it was more of a npc (the old guy that helps you along or the really bad guy you have to try and kill. maybe it would be better in another area
- humm i think it a really cool idea and i'm adding flavor remember i though this up 48 hours ago and just grabed stuff and slaped it together. my core idea is a immortal that has limited control over time the whole idea is to make a doctor who like class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_lord) i think Dhazriel is right about the time stop ability, i'm going to do a lot of sifting and see if someone has a better idea may be speeding up so everything else moves slower.
- I'd call this class OP and I'm someone who buffs all epic classes cause I think they're puny. (Check power progression from 1-20 then 20-40, epic sucks. You get more slightly feats and bump the DC of spells up, but all the official class progressions are cringe worthy.) Given the sheer power of a Time Lord, it would be almost better to keep them as a NPC only, then it doesn't matter how powerful they are. The heroes can become 'mini' Time Lords using spells and items. Some official classes (Monk of the Long Hand, normal monks, 'ascendance' classes) give free saves on death, bonus lives, time immortality, etc, but not true immortality. That's deity level power. Although, you can kill the deities in this game. :P So true immortality is beyond epic. If you wanted to make it a PC class and drop the power levels try.
"-Once per year a Temporal Lord may return to the world of the living, he is affected by the spell true resurrection one day after death. He may resurrect at his birthplace, where he was killed or where he was one day before he was killed. If none of those place are safe he returns at a nearby safe place. This Resurrection ability renews itself each year, at the Temporal Lord birthday (or the day he came into existence). If a Temporal Lord dies when he has already used up his resurrection for the year he is instead resurrected on his birthday (using up his Resurrection use for the year). -The Temporal Lord is immune to any kind of death or seal over his soul, he cannot be stopped from respawning by any means. (example: The Temporal Lord is immune to the True Death quality). "
Removing these for a start. The other parts are normal for epic chars, but that's just OP. Why would you become a lich or take 20lvls in Monk or 10lvls in another 'ascendance' class when you could take 1 of this?
Put a limit on the amount of regenerations. Even the Time Lords of Dr. Who aren't completely immortal. They age slower and can regenerate, but they have a limit. :P In this case you don't age at all and there is no limit on the amount of times you can rez. Also no way of stopping you from rezzing. Although I 'spose you could kill the class by repeated killing. Your class doesn't state that a rez doesn't bring lvl loss so technically if you repeatedly kill them they'd eventually die.. It'd just take a while. :P
Make it a 10lvl class starting at 21st lvl. That would make it much more in tune with normal epic PC's.
Or, here's one idea. Make it a 20th lvl class, from 1-20. Give them ok saves (+6 to all) and a low BaB (+5,+10), then give them the supernatural abilities at the same lvl Wizards would get the equivalent spell, with ability to use it the same amount of times per day as a Sorcerer. Give True Immortality OR Immortal Body at 20th lvl, then give the other after another 5 lvls in epic at 25th lvl. If anything, that would almost be underpowered.. Could even do it in 20lvls with low BaB and saves, just need to work out how to hand out Immortal Body and True Immortality without doing it all in one go at 20th lvl or being OP.
Permanent Haste isn't really OP. A mage could use Permanency and do it a earlier than 20th lvl. :P Regen is a bit much, but there's 2 ways of stopping it so that's not as bad as it could be.
Tip for later, if you want to get a good grasp of how powerful something is, get one of your equivilent lvl PC's and simulate them versing each other. If your new class wipes the other one, chances are it's over the top.
@Lord Dhazriel Level 27 isn't that high. Well.. In normal DnD terms it is, but really. PC's are 'sposed to be awesome. Epic is when it gets fun. When you tweak it a bit anyway.. lol
- Just going to add my thoughts on one thing: epic is where is gets stupid, not fun. -- Jota 14:33, 8 August 2009 (MDT)
- When tweaked.. Let me emphasise that.. A lot. =P