Talk:Tempest Scout (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

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is 4 attacks on a spring attack each doing +6D6 to undead not optimized?

Why not break down for us the attack + damage at level 20, and then we can make a fair judgement about it? See an example of what I mean here. --Ghostwheel 13:02, 12 August 2009 (MDT)
You're relying on a rule loophole/dodgy wording for any real source of damage, and you're AC/survivability isn't great. I mean, the right fighter with an optimized BAB could probably Power Attack and kill you in one or two hits. An optimized wizard destroys you (although its not alone in that regard). You're looking at, what, 200 damage in a round tops? 300? This is optimization. 5400 damage, potentially, is something enemies have to respect. You're Tempest Scout is a minor annoyance, like a dwarven defender. So in summation, limited survivability, limited damage output, and limited maneuverability (seriously, only 50 speed for something that's supposed to rely on movement?) add up to mediocrity, not optimization. I don't mean to be harsh, it's just as a community we don't want to misrepresent things as other things. Jota 19:41, 12 August 2009 (MDT)
Eh, I don't think it's fair to compare any build to a PvP situation, only because D&D isn't really about PvP, but PvE. However, we do have standards, so if he can show that his build does at least 120 DPR vs. AC 40 in an ideal situation by level 20 (about the minimum in my mind for striker-oriented optimized builds) then it should have a place on the optimized builds listing. On the other hand, should he be unable to demonstrate something like that, then build-be-gone. --Ghostwheel 19:48, 12 August 2009 (MDT)
While you say PvP is not standard, it is perfectly viable for the enemy to be another party or an enemy with class levels. If you were level 20 and your DM put you up against a level 17 cleric, rogue, whatever, you should be able to kill that fool. Maybe not the most optimized build ever (unless your DM's an asshole), but you should still be able to kill enemies with class levels. -- Jota 20:52, 12 August 2009 (MDT)
That's... *grimaces* really debateable. On one hand, you could easily defeat a level 17 (CW) Samurai with most builds. On the other hand, you could easily be defeated by a level 17 CoDzilla or Wizard with most builds--optimized or not. Thus, I don't think that enemies with PC classes are a good example with which to challenge a build--they're just so different from one-another in power depending on the class. --Ghostwheel 20:55, 12 August 2009 (MDT)
I'm not saying there aren't differences (probably shouldn't have used cleric in my example), but in theory an optimized level X character should beat an optimized level X-3 character. Practice pretty much ruins that, but I blame Wizards. -- Jota 21:41, 12 August 2009 (MDT)
Backtracking a little, I agree with you that this build isn't up to par; however, we might be wrong and I think that the author should be able to attempt to prove otherwise--if he can do so, great. If not, away the build goes. --Ghostwheel 23:05, 12 August 2009 (MDT)
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