Talk:Symbiocahs (3.5e Race)

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I fixed most of the problems. --Jason Bagby 20:39, 18 June 2009

Most of them? Maybe. The major ones? Not by a longshot. Really I see two major problems with this race. The first is that vermin, as a rule, do not have intelligence scores at all, let alone a bonus to int. The second is that you provide no rules for this "symbiotic" subtype. --Daniel Draco 20:52, 26 June 2009 (MDT)
Dear Jason Bagby,
Until such a time that you can answer the questions posed here and on the Needs Balance Template on this article in a form such as "this is what the problem was, this is what I did to fix it" here on the discussion page, please, leave the Needs Balance Template on the article. We are here to help you and want quality articles posted here on the wiki. Do some research about what it is you are trying to make instead of making roundabout excuses like "As a exception to the mindless vermin rule...". That is bad game design. We want good game design. We want quality articles. --Ganteka 21:31, 26 June 2009 (MDT)
I read the vermin type rule and it says that most Vermin are mindless not all and I fixed the Symbiotic subtype. --Jason Bagby 13:31, 02 June 2009
I find it odd that the Vermin does allow for non-mindless specimens (despite that none of the vermin in the SRD have an Int score, save for the Hellwasp Swarm, which becomes mindless when not in a swarm and I bet the whole idea of having non-mindless vermin was to cover any possibility of having them as such in future books. Construct says the same thing, and now we have warforged). Anyhow, I still feel that Vermin is the wrong type to use here and that Magical Beast is the way to go. Also, make sue you denote what other benefits/penalties being diminutive grants as well as rules concerning their basic shape (can they equip rings, amulets, robes, swords?). Also, it says that it is snake-like, but is it like a snake, or more like a worm or something else? I know I'm forgetting to mention more things, but that should be enough for now. --Ganteka 14:01, 2 July 2009 (MDT)
Well I am making this my vermin exception like how the warforged is the construct exception hey I mean you got to start somewhere since there is a possibility for a smart vermin race and I might as well be the first to make one. --Jason Bagby 22:31, 03 2009
I would like to request for the removal of the Needs Balance Template on this article. --Jason Bagby 19:10, 06 2009
Yeah, I can remove the Needs Balance Template, even though I'm not dead set on how balanced the article actually is at this point. Pegging down races of unusual size and body structure are hard to gauge. However, I still would like you to reconsider using the Magical Beast type, as it is a creature with greater than 2 Int, supernatural abilities and bizarre appearance... speaking of which, is this thing a wormy critter, or is it more like a snake, with a backbone and skull and such? Also, you still need to spell out the other benefits and penalties of being diminutive, such as basically everything listed on that table in the link. There is still a lot more work to be done here. Get crackin', it is getting there, albeit slowly. --Ganteka 19:33, 6 July 2009 (MDT)
They are more snake like they have a backbone but instead of teeth they have pincers and have a plated exoskeleton along with their internal skeleton I will make sure to add this to the physical description. --Jason Bagby 19:10, 06 2009
I would like to request for the removal of the formatting help Template on this article. --Jason Bagby 00:44, 07 2009
Well, there was still some stuff messed up with the formatting, so I just went and fixed it myself. Anyways, there were a couple things that were omissions that I tried to correct that you will need to look over. Racial abilities, like that "being able to cast spells while in a host thing" needed to be listed as a Supernatural ability, and not sure on the name. The name is just a placeholder for now, feel free to change it of course. Also, for Bonus Languages, that was kinda goofed up there. Was Common supposed to be a Bonus Language or an Automatic Language? Also, be sure to read about Bonus Languages, since, as is, they can't gain the benefit of their high intelligence for more languages at character creation, which is lame, since only Draconic is listed. Just change it to Any (other than secret languages such as Druidic) so PCs can take advantage of high Intelligence scores to gain Bonus Languages. Unless of course, it is specifically intended not to know many languages. Oh dang, you also need to list Telepathy as its own racial ability and list out how far it reaches. Also, the body slots, for comparison, look at the table on body slots to compare to a normal humanoid body. Those body slots should be reworded as such to match up as best you can to avoid confusion. That's all I got for now. --Ganteka 01:18, 7 July 2009 (MDT)


I'd say +3 LA would be more accurate--take a look at it this way; as a nimble fighter (like Swordsage), they'd get +4 to hit from size, +4 to AC from size, +2 to hit from increased dex, and more skill points. Furthermore, they can move at twice what most medium races can. Third, they have telepathy (how far? 100'?) and are immune to most spells at lower levels that target humanoids. And they're just as strong as the average human despite their size. Lastly, they get a +12 bonus to hide checks from size. As a wizard, they have all these, AND a bonus to spellcasting from high int, with the ability to hide in creatures' bodies safe from harm, if I'm reading the whole "symbiont" thing correctly. More than +1 LA by a long shot. Ghostwheel 06:04, 7 July 2009 (MDT)

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